Hello, I was searching the www.everyrose.com website for high fragant
floribunda roses and there I found Gruss an Aachen as being exceptionally
fragant.
This is strange because in the "The encyclopedia of roses" (Random House
Australia Pty Ltd 1998) this rose only gets a low fragant quotation.
In my local nursery catalogue Gruss an Aachen gets no points for fragancy
and whats more they sell it as a shrub rose iso floribunda.
How can these differences (which I also found for some other roses) be
explained and who is right?

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:59:17 GMT, "Greta Kustermans"
wrote:

Hello, I was searching the www.everyrose.com website for high fragant
floribunda roses and there I found Gruss an Aachen as being exceptionally
fragant.
This is strange because in the "The encyclopedia of roses" (Random House
Australia Pty Ltd 1998) this rose only gets a low fragant quotation.
In my local nursery catalogue Gruss an Aachen gets no points for fragancy
and whats more they sell it as a shrub rose iso floribunda.
How can these differences (which I also found for some other roses) be
explained and who is right?


Fragrance is

1. Highly variable due to conditions such as temperature, humidity,
and time of day.

2. Highly subjective. Noses vary. Olfactory receptors must, too.

I think Don Juan has a recognizable, albeit "medium strength" rose
scent. Others say it merely smells more like a rose than a ham
sandwich.

I smell nothing at all on Europeana. Others say it has fragrance.

By the way, Europeana is the best red floribunda EVER.

Fragrant floribundas I have grown:

Sheila's Perfume--yellow bicolor, wow, not bloomiferous but who cares.
Great classic HT form, STRONG scent.

White Lightnin' [may be a grandiflora in the US, can't recall, grows
like a fl and has a strong lemony scent.]

Scentimental--look at it too hard and it drops its petals but what a
scent and each rose is a unique masterpiece. for, like, 3 minutes. :-)
I have three so I get so see blooms.

Angelface--a very fragrant, ruffly mauve rose with a neat white
stripe. I dislike this rose for some reason, but fragrance is not is.
The blooms on mine were sort of shallow, and overall the plant did not
behave well. Some have great luck with it.

Margaret Merrill, lovely blush white, not many petals, maybe 8-10,
sweet, great fragrance.

All That Jazz--Orange, 8 petals, very fragrant.

Pensioner's Voice--I love the name, too, though many do not.
Orange/peach and tall. VERY strong fragrance, lovely high-centered
form.

For some reason, the grandiflora class (supposed to be a cross between
a hybrid tea and a floridbunda, it blooms in sprays but has longer
stems than floribundas generally do, and you can pinch out side buds
and have a great huge central bloom if you like] has some really great
fragrant roses. Note that I am saying fragrant, not disease resistant,
etc. I live in Zone 7 Raleighk, NC. Hot and wet, then cold and wet. I
do spray.

Fragrant Grandifloras I have grown:

Gold Medal--lovely medium-light yellow with edges brushed with cerise.
Not a good high center, and fades to an ugly off-white on the bush but
great for cutting.

Lagerfeld--ghosty lavender, great form and fragrance, major swooning
diva of a rose, worth growing anyway.

The class sometimes called "shrub roses" has some good ones.

Distant Drums is round and shrubby and never out of bloom, strange
but pleasant myrrh fragrance. Ruffly, not high-centered.


Back to your question, the very best thing to do when choosing roses
is to see them in bloom in a local garden or garden shop before you
buy. That way your nose can tell you.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:59:17 GMT, "Greta Kustermans"
wrote:

Hello, I was searching the www.everyrose.com website for high fragant
floribunda roses and there I found Gruss an Aachen as being
exceptionally fragant. This is strange because in the "The
encyclopedia of roses" (Random House Australia Pty Ltd 1998) this rose
only gets a low fragant quotation. In my local nursery catalogue Gruss
an Aachen gets no points for fragancy and whats more they sell it as a
shrub rose iso floribunda.

Greta, I grow Gruss an Aachen in Australia and I find the scent quite
good. To me, scent in weaker varieties is more perceptible when the
bloom is in direct sun. Also in spring and autumn when the blooms have
more time to fully develop.

As for the description of the bush, NOBODY knows how to classify the
mighty Gruss. Some say it's the first floribunda. The tag on my bush
said it was a HT (which by breeding is most correct since it is a HT/HP
cross). Others call it a polyantha. David Austin even tries to claim
it as an English rose! But who really cares... as Roger Mann pointed
out in his book, nobody would be arguing if it wasn't such an excellent
rose.

Thanks for your reply

Shiva, sniff before you buy is certainly a good advice. However over here
(Belgium) it is almost winter and most garden centers are closed. Another,
personal, problem I have when going to a garden centre while flowers are in
bloom, is that there are so many I like and I want to have them all, so I
always
end up bying several types of roses one of each. That's way the rose bed I
planted during the summer (june,july) looks more like a rose collection than
a rose border.
Now I am planning to make another border next spring and this time I want to
do it right. It should be about 10 meters long, tree or four rows , in a
colour
scheme of mauve/lila, white, soft yellow and maybe some pink, preferably
fragrant ones.
From the list you gave me only Margaret Merill is available in the local
garden
centers, but at least they all agree that it is very fragant.
Fragrant roses from my rose "collection" are
Friesia (sunsprite/KOResia)
Amber Queen (HARoony)
Baronne Edmond de Rothschild (MEIgriso)
and Bruoscella ,from a Belgium breeder Louis Lens, in spite of the bad,
weather it is still producing buds.

Daniel, you are right, I found Gruss in "David Austin's English Roses" 1993
I got from a second hand book shop .
They don't even agree on the size of Gruss. According to some it is over a
meter (4ft) while others eg
http://www.lens-roses.be/html/home-n...,from=homepage
claim that is only 60 cm (2ft).
As soon as the garden centers reopen I will check it out myself.





"Shiva" schreef in bericht
s.com...
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:59:17 GMT, "Greta Kustermans"
wrote:

Hello, I was searching the www.everyrose.com website for high fragant
floribunda roses and there I found Gruss an Aachen as being exceptionally
fragant.
This is strange because in the "The encyclopedia of roses" (Random House
Australia Pty Ltd 1998) this rose only gets a low fragant quotation.
In my local nursery catalogue Gruss an Aachen gets no points for fragancy
and whats more they sell it as a shrub rose iso floribunda.
How can these differences (which I also found for some other roses) be
explained and who is right?


Fragrance is

1. Highly variable due to conditions such as temperature, humidity,
and time of day.

2. Highly subjective. Noses vary. Olfactory receptors must, too.

I think Don Juan has a recognizable, albeit "medium strength" rose
scent. Others say it merely smells more like a rose than a ham
sandwich.

I smell nothing at all on Europeana. Others say it has fragrance.

By the way, Europeana is the best red floribunda EVER.

Fragrant floribundas I have grown:

Sheila's Perfume--yellow bicolor, wow, not bloomiferous but who cares.
Great classic HT form, STRONG scent.

White Lightnin' [may be a grandiflora in the US, can't recall, grows
like a fl and has a strong lemony scent.]

Scentimental--look at it too hard and it drops its petals but what a
scent and each rose is a unique masterpiece. for, like, 3 minutes. :-)
I have three so I get so see blooms.

Angelface--a very fragrant, ruffly mauve rose with a neat white
stripe. I dislike this rose for some reason, but fragrance is not is.
The blooms on mine were sort of shallow, and overall the plant did not
behave well. Some have great luck with it.

Margaret Merrill, lovely blush white, not many petals, maybe 8-10,
sweet, great fragrance.

All That Jazz--Orange, 8 petals, very fragrant.

Pensioner's Voice--I love the name, too, though many do not.
Orange/peach and tall. VERY strong fragrance, lovely high-centered
form.

For some reason, the grandiflora class (supposed to be a cross between
a hybrid tea and a floridbunda, it blooms in sprays but has longer
stems than floribundas generally do, and you can pinch out side buds
and have a great huge central bloom if you like] has some really great
fragrant roses. Note that I am saying fragrant, not disease resistant,
etc. I live in Zone 7 Raleighk, NC. Hot and wet, then cold and wet. I
do spray.

Fragrant Grandifloras I have grown:

Gold Medal--lovely medium-light yellow with edges brushed with cerise.
Not a good high center, and fades to an ugly off-white on the bush but
great for cutting.

Lagerfeld--ghosty lavender, great form and fragrance, major swooning
diva of a rose, worth growing anyway.

The class sometimes called "shrub roses" has some good ones.

Distant Drums is round and shrubby and never out of bloom, strange
but pleasant myrrh fragrance. Ruffly, not high-centered.


Back to your question, the very best thing to do when choosing roses
is to see them in bloom in a local garden or garden shop before you
buy. That way your nose can tell you.

In Greta Kustermans wrote:
They don't even agree on the size of Gruss. According to some it is
over a meter (4ft) while others eg http://www.lens-roses.be/html/home-
nl.dhtml?source=presentatie,from=homepage claim that is only 60 cm (
2ft).

Oh yeah. The size estimates are the worst joke in the rose industry. I
wish they'd just say short, average and tall. Even t-shirt size labels
would be better. Eg

Monsieur Tillier: XXL
Kentucky Derby: XL
Granada: L
Double Delight: M
Sexy Rexy: SM

At least then you could take relative climates into account. To
illustrate, I live in Sydney and you live in Belgium. If we both grow
Gruss, mine is likely to be taller than yours owing to warmer
temperatures in winter. But for both of us, Gruss will still be
RELATIVELY smaller than other roses we grow.

On the above scale I would rate Gruss an Aachen an S. It prefers to
flower rather than grow, which makes it an especially good choice for
temperate climates where roses are tempted to throw out long canes.

In article , Greta
Kustermans wrote:


and Bruoscella ,from a Belgium breeder Louis Lens, in spite of the bad,
weather it is still producing buds.

http://www.lens-roses.be/html/home-n...,from=homepage

Greta, you are so lucky to have access to Louis Lens roses. We have to
get ours after they have been imported through Canada, and so far, the
only ones I've been able to get are Dentelle de Malines and
Plaisanterie. I would love to have Pleine de Grace, Eurosong, Claire
Jolly, Walferdange, Bouquet Parfait in my garden and about 10 more!

http://www.lens-roses.be/roses/dBouquet_Parfait.jpg

Xref: kermit rec.gardens.roses:96743

.. I would love to have Pleine de Grace, Eurosong, Claire
Jolly, Walferdange, Bouquet Parfait in my garden and about 10 more!

I believe that we have Bouquet Parfait in our January Rose
Auction....and I have seen blooms of it last about a week in
the vase....

JD

James Delahanty wrote:

.I would love to have Pleine de Grace, Eurosong, Claire
Jolly, Walferdange, Bouquet Parfait in my garden and about 10 more!

I believe that we have Bouquet Parfait in our January Rose
Auction....and I have seen blooms of it last about a week in
the vase....

You have my proxy. Is it live or silent auction?

You have my proxy. Is it live or silent auction?

All of the auctions are live, but we have a proxy bidder for offsite
bidders. Currently your limit is 9 dollars; let me know if you want to
up it when the time comes. And you could pick it up at the GRL4; or
come down to LA a couple of days earlier as the auction is January 22nd.
JD