Due to last year's bareroot rose massacre, I will be
planning a new side bed this winter. There are a few
roses there, but all are subject to being uprooted as it
pleases me.

The bed is long and fairly narrow, but with room for
a walkway and double rows of roses on each side. The walk
will be flagstone.

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc. Against the
fence on the end there is a New Dawn entering its third
year. On the right as you enter the side garden
I have these, growing as climbers on a fence: Penelope,
GoldenCelebration, Paul Neyron, Abraham Darby, Pat Austin,
and Molineux. They tend to grow all mixed up together.

on the left the side garden borders a small hill with a
tall privacy fence at the top, and a tile terrace on the
other side. I had intended to cover the redwood fence with
the miniature Climbing Rainbow's end, but that was before I
killed the Joseph's Coat growing on the hill side of the
fence. I still really like the idea of CRE--what a gorgeous
rose when planted en masse. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

"Shiva" wrote:

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc.

Oh. ComplEmentary.

I thought you were giving them away for free.

The standard shtick is blue clematis with anything-but-blue
roses, but an all-rose solution seems better to me. Clematis
need cool, shaded, well-mulched roots at least in my
climate (8b, North Florida; today it's 25 F outside as I type
and it doesn't strike me as a warm climate, by damn), and
of course some sort of trellis; I've killed every clematis I've
owned, even though they're supposed to be hardy through
zone 9 and though I wasn't trying to kill them. Maybe the
drainage wasn't good enough either.

As for complementary roses...I'm useless here; I just
responded because of the malaprop spelling. I mean, the
usual color-contrast and size-contrast things...get a low
grower like Cardinal Hume in front, then a contrasting
medium-grower in the middle (say a pink vs. the Cardinal's
ruddy-purple-whatever, or one of the quieter Floribundas
like Iceberg), and a tall Austin in the back. Or some
sprawler in front even more prostrate than the Cardinal...
one of those tough Kordes things. Red, white, mauve;
pink, pinker, pinkest; mauve, gold, mauve; light green,
dark green, light green again leaves; rugose, smooth,
rugose. Or...oh, you might not have room for that sort
of triple-row setup. Sorry.

I just plant roses any bloody way I like and hope and pray
that they thrive and that the deer don't eat them. I am dumping
mounds of composted yard waste every couple yards and
planting a formerly-potted rose in the middle of each mound;
this is to keep heavy rains that I sometimes get from drowning
the rose's roots. The soil is none too fertile apart from a mess
of phosphate, and I completely lack aesthetic appreciation,
apart from appreciating the qualities of an individual plant.
It helps that I have lots of room.

Mark., just being an a**hole on a cold frosty morning

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:59 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

Due to last year's bareroot rose massacre, I will be
planning a new side bed this winter. There are a few
roses there, but all are subject to being uprooted as it
pleases me.

The bed is long and fairly narrow, but with room for
a walkway and double rows of roses on each side. The walk
will be flagstone.

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc. Against the
fence on the end there is a New Dawn entering its third
year. On the right as you enter the side garden
I have these, growing as climbers on a fence: Penelope,
GoldenCelebration, Paul Neyron, Abraham Darby, Pat Austin,
and Molineux. They tend to grow all mixed up together.

Baby Love would be a nice upright bush that would complement Golden
Celebration. I know that you value scent almost above everything else,
so this would devalue Baby Love, but I like the idea of contrasting
large blooms with smaller "species-esque" blooms. Baby Love *does*
have a light scent, but you have to get pretty close to the blooms. I
found that mine stayed in bloom most of the year. Upside? Compact,
upright growth - mine is now about 4 feet tall and well-shaped with a
thick, dense structure. Very disease-resistant in my environment.
Takes to shaping pretty well if desired. No thorn problem. Downside?
To keep it blooming, you have to keep deadheading. It's not that big
of a deal to do a few everyday, but the blooms only last a couple of
days (maybe as long as 5 days). The nice thing is that as you pinch
them off, there are plenty of blooms just starting their cycle, so
it's rarely bare. However, plenty of blooms means plenty of daily
deadheading of 3 to 10 blooms during the biggest bloom period. It only
takes about a minute.

Here's a reminder from mid-season this year (June, I think):

http://www.pbase.com/image/19899228

How about Portland from Glendorra? I think it would complement things
like Paul Neyron. The scent will bowl you over when it's in full
bloom. It can get pretty big pretty quickly, but I think that you can
keep it cut back without much harm. I'm not sure about
disease-resistance yet, although I haven't noticed much black spot (if
any). It's quite thorny. As much as you're going to want to use it in
arrangements, the blooms really don't last all that long. On the bush,
they last less than a week and they don't shrivel up and brown, they
shatter. I seem to remember about 3 full flushes, with fairly long
periods with blooms. Also, after the second blooming, that's when it
really starting gaining height and width. By the end of the season, it
was close to 6 feet tall. I pruned it fairly dramatically because it
was leaning from the weight of the blooms and the prevailing winds.
I'm trying to get it to grow straight up, plus I'm trying to keep it
from sprawling from side to side. Cass has a nice picture of *her* 7
foot Portland and it's quite broad. I'm trying to keep the general
shape that you'll see in the next picture.

As a reminder, here's mine in May, second season. Size? About 3 1/2
feet tall.

http://www.pbase.com/image/19989612

Here's a different angle from roughly the same period:

http://www.pbase.com/image/25582562

You can actually see a couple of other Baby Love shots in that gallery
*and* you can also bask once more in the glory that is Desert Peace.
There's even a nice Don Juan shot in there as well.

Hope this helps.

Hmmmm - I missed the story of the bare root massacre. Was it just a
hot summer thing that sent new bare roots into shock, or did you have
some fun with a shovel?

Sounds like the right way to go might not be to think only in terms of
matching what is already there. If the underachievers are quick to
receive the shovel, you might get cornered into matching things that
were purchased solely to match the underachievers.

If I remember correctly, you're fond of pure reds and pure whites that
have fragrance, avoid pure pinks, and will give a shot to
multi-colored things with a kind of tropical look. I'd suggest
getting a few fairly basic things that would halfway blend with just
about anything that gets put nearby.

I'm revamping my garden too, and my tastes are similar (except that I
avoid yellow instead of pink). One that I just ordered is Fair
Bianca. If it behaves as advertised, it will be a fragrant, pure
white David Austin on a compact shrub.

And when in doubt, there's no such thing as too much fragrant red ! A
nice Don Juan could be a great replacement if you choose to terminate
one of the climbers, and there's always room for Europeana...

Or if you feel like experimenting, why not try some varieties that are
similar to the beloved Granada? Chihuly looks tempting, and Party
Time might do the trick too. I ordered a Love And Peace, but I've
seen very different descriptions in different catalogs, so heaven only
knows what color combinations I'll get from it this summer.

So, my top 3 suggestions = Fair Bianca, Don Juan, Chihuly

happy shopping !
-torgo



On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:59 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

Due to last year's bareroot rose massacre, I will be
planning a new side bed this winter. There are a few
roses there, but all are subject to being uprooted as it
pleases me.

The bed is long and fairly narrow, but with room for
a walkway and double rows of roses on each side. The walk
will be flagstone.

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc. Against the
fence on the end there is a New Dawn entering its third
year. On the right as you enter the side garden
I have these, growing as climbers on a fence: Penelope,
GoldenCelebration, Paul Neyron, Abraham Darby, Pat Austin,
and Molineux. They tend to grow all mixed up together.

on the left the side garden borders a small hill with a
tall privacy fence at the top, and a tile terrace on the
other side. I had intended to cover the redwood fence with
the miniature Climbing Rainbow's end, but that was before I
killed the Joseph's Coat growing on the hill side of the
fence. I still really like the idea of CRE--what a gorgeous
rose when planted en masse. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Mark. Gooley wrote:

"Shiva" wrote:

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc.

Oh. ComplEmentary.

I thought you were giving them away for free.

PLLBBBBT. And I don't want no steennnnkeeenn
Clematis in my rose beds!

Mark. Gooley wrote:

"Shiva" wrote:

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc.

Oh. ComplEmentary.

I thought you were giving them away for free.

PLLBBBBT. And I don't want no steennnnkeeenn
Clematis in my rose beds!

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:59 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"

Baby Love would be a nice upright bush that would complement Golden
Celebration. I know that you value scent almost above everything else,
so this would devalue Baby Love, but I like the idea of contrasting
large blooms with smaller "species-esque" blooms. Baby Love *does*
have a light scent, but you have to get pretty close to the blooms. I
found that mine stayed in bloom most of the year. Upside? Compact,
upright growth - mine is now about 4 feet tall and well-shaped with a
thick, dense structure. Very disease-resistant in my environment.
Takes to shaping pretty well if desired. No thorn problem. Downside?
To keep it blooming, you have to keep deadheading. It's not that big
of a deal to do a few everyday, but the blooms only last a couple of
days (maybe as long as 5 days). The nice thing is that as you pinch
them off, there are plenty of blooms just starting their cycle, so
it's rarely bare. However, plenty of blooms means plenty of daily
deadheading of 3 to 10 blooms during the biggest bloom period. It only
takes about a minute.

Here's a reminder from mid-season this year (June, I think):

http://www.pbase.com/image/19899228

I really like this, for a single. It would provide nice variation
in size and shape, too. Good suggestion. Nice dark green foliage, too.



How about Portland from Glendorra? I think it would complement things
like Paul Neyron. The scent will bowl you over when it's in full
bloom.

That sounds good, and yours is gorgeous, but the size might be a
problem. That, by the way, is one of the few shades of pink
I can stand.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, Dave. When did you see Rundgren? I saw him live
in Houston years ago in a sleazy r&r club.

torgo wrote:

Hmmmm - I missed the story of the bare root massacre. Was it just a
hot summer thing that sent new bare roots into shock, or did you have
some fun with a shovel?

I planted them, then it rained and rained and would not stop raining.
The consensus is, they drowned. Believe it or not.


Sounds like the right way to go might not be to think only in terms of
matching what is already there. If the underachievers are quick to
receive the shovel, you might get cornered into matching things that
were purchased solely to match the underachievers.

I don't shovel, and rather than match I tend to contrast.
But I am open to ideas! Whatever you think looks good is what
I want to hear about. So I can sort of try it on in my mind.


If I remember correctly, you're fond of pure reds and pure whites that
have fragrance, avoid pure pinks, and will give a shot to
multi-colored things with a kind of tropical look.

You have a great memory and a very nice, succinct way with words! I'm
off whites now, though. They just tend to age too ugly. Although,
Crystalline did put out a few nice blooms before it died. Very
pure white, but no scent. And I like purples. Big winner this year,
in vigor and beauty: Royal Amethyst.


I'm revamping my garden too, and my tastes are similar (except that I
avoid yellow instead of pink). One that I just ordered is Fair
Bianca. If it behaves as advertised, it will be a fragrant, pure
white David Austin on a compact shrub.

Speaking of compact Austins, do you have Tamora? Way too cute.
Maybe 2.5 X 2.5 in my garden. Perfect container rose, I imagine,
though mine is in the ground. Not yellow, but peachy. Nice scent.


And when in doubt, there's no such thing as too much fragrant red ! A
nice Don Juan could be a great replacement if you choose to terminate
one of the climbers, and there's always room for Europeana...

You do know what I like! My DJ is in his fifth year, mingling with
Sombrueil in a mound on a chain link fence and climbing 15 feet
up into a row of mature hollies. Stunning!! An aptly names heartwrecker!
And voles have eaten three of my Europeanas, but you bet I need to get it
again. The best red floribunda there is, even though I get no scent from it.
The perfect shape, too, and never out of bloom. Thanks for reminding me!

Or if you feel like experimenting, why not try some varieties that are
similar to the beloved Granada? Chihuly looks tempting, and Party
Time might do the trick too.

I've looked at these. If I can get them potted, I might just. No more
bare roots, at least not for a while. I got my bud union handed to me
by the bare roots last year. I never fail with potted roses.

I ordered a Love And Peace, but I've
seen very different descriptions in different catalogs, so heaven only
knows what color combinations I'll get from it this summer.

Keep us posted and thanks for the suggestions!! Glad to see you back.

Mark. Gooley wrote:

"Shiva" wrote:

I'd like some ideas on roses that grow well together.
Good colors, the right height together, etc.

Oh. ComplEmentary.

I thought you were giving them away for free.

PLLBBBBT. And I don't want no steennnnkeeenn
Clematis in my rose beds!

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:59 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"

Baby Love would be a nice upright bush that would complement Golden
Celebration. I know that you value scent almost above everything else,
so this would devalue Baby Love, but I like the idea of contrasting
large blooms with smaller "species-esque" blooms. Baby Love *does*
have a light scent, but you have to get pretty close to the blooms. I
found that mine stayed in bloom most of the year. Upside? Compact,
upright growth - mine is now about 4 feet tall and well-shaped with a
thick, dense structure. Very disease-resistant in my environment.
Takes to shaping pretty well if desired. No thorn problem. Downside?
To keep it blooming, you have to keep deadheading. It's not that big
of a deal to do a few everyday, but the blooms only last a couple of
days (maybe as long as 5 days). The nice thing is that as you pinch
them off, there are plenty of blooms just starting their cycle, so
it's rarely bare. However, plenty of blooms means plenty of daily
deadheading of 3 to 10 blooms during the biggest bloom period. It only
takes about a minute.

Here's a reminder from mid-season this year (June, I think):

http://www.pbase.com/image/19899228

I really like this, for a single. It would provide nice variation
in size and shape, too. Good suggestion. Nice dark green foliage, too.



How about Portland from Glendorra? I think it would complement things
like Paul Neyron. The scent will bowl you over when it's in full
bloom.

That sounds good, and yours is gorgeous, but the size might be a
problem. That, by the way, is one of the few shades of pink
I can stand.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, Dave. When did you see Rundgren? I saw him live
in Houston years ago in a sleazy r&r club.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:19:45 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:30:59 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"

Baby Love would be a nice upright bush that would complement Golden
Celebration. I know that you value scent almost above everything else,
so this would devalue Baby Love, but I like the idea of contrasting
large blooms with smaller "species-esque" blooms. Baby Love *does*
have a light scent, but you have to get pretty close to the blooms. I
found that mine stayed in bloom most of the year. Upside? Compact,
upright growth - mine is now about 4 feet tall and well-shaped with a
thick, dense structure. Very disease-resistant in my environment.
Takes to shaping pretty well if desired. No thorn problem. Downside?
To keep it blooming, you have to keep deadheading. It's not that big
of a deal to do a few everyday, but the blooms only last a couple of
days (maybe as long as 5 days). The nice thing is that as you pinch
them off, there are plenty of blooms just starting their cycle, so
it's rarely bare. However, plenty of blooms means plenty of daily
deadheading of 3 to 10 blooms during the biggest bloom period. It only
takes about a minute.

Here's a reminder from mid-season this year (June, I think):

http://www.pbase.com/image/19899228

I really like this, for a single. It would provide nice variation
in size and shape, too. Good suggestion. Nice dark green foliage, too.

It is such a cool little (well, *not* so little) plant. A "no-hassle"
plant.

How about Portland from Glendorra? I think it would complement things
like Paul Neyron. The scent will bowl you over when it's in full
bloom.

That sounds good, and yours is gorgeous, but the size might be a
problem. That, by the way, is one of the few shades of pink
I can stand.

You call that pink???? I've always thought of that color as more in
the purple family. Maybe I'm wrong though. If I had known that it was
a pink, I wouldn't have bothered g.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, Dave. When did you see Rundgren? I saw him live
in Houston years ago in a sleazy r&r club.

I forgot that those pics were up there. It was from this last summer
at Uptown Mix here in Nashville. Of course, I had seen him twice in
the 70s.

Two of my photos made a Glenn Tilbrook calendar this year (and the May
photo was used as the cover). I was really proud of that!

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:29:10 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:


I planted them, then it rained and rained and would not stop raining.
The consensus is, they drowned. Believe it or not.

Thinking back to last spring, I'd believe anything. We had two floods
followed by a late freeze followed by more flooding, and then even an
earthquake thrown in just for chuckles. Most of my roses pretty much
just pouted all summer long after that.


Speaking of compact Austins, do you have Tamora? Way too cute.
Maybe 2.5 X 2.5 in my garden. Perfect container rose, I imagine,
though mine is in the ground. Not yellow, but peachy. Nice scent.

I thought about ordering a Tamora for this year. My mother has one in
her yard and absolutely loves it. I'm replacing the front row of a
bed in front of my living room window with compact bushes. The
current selections are Fair Bianca, Marmalade Skies, Europeana,
Kathryn Morley, and Betty Boop. If one of them can't make it through
the summer, Tamora is the current first choice as a replacement.

Betty Boop is one you may consider - if you like the color blend, the
bush is a big time bloomer.



You do know what I like! My DJ is in his fifth year, mingling with
Sombrueil in a mound on a chain link fence and climbing 15 feet
up into a row of mature hollies. Stunning!! An aptly names heartwrecker!

That's good to hear - a Don Juan was among the bare roots that I
bought on clearance in late May and let soak until October. It's
doing well so far, but this will be its first true growing season.
I'm hoping it will add a little zest to a plain old chain link fence.


And voles have eaten three of my Europeanas, but you bet I need to get it
again. The best red floribunda there is, even though I get no scent from it.
The perfect shape, too, and never out of bloom. Thanks for reminding me!

Kentucky Derby is another red that is really growing on me. It isn't
very fragrant, but the bush doesn't seem to mind summer heat and the
blooms have a perfect form. (I love the fragrant reds and dark reds,
but summer isn't kind to most of them. KD doesn't have as strong a
scent, but it's healthy and happy.)

Intrigue is the main purple that caught my attention during last
year's buying binge. This will be its first growing season. I'll let
you know how it does, and I'll keep Royal Amethyst in mind for this
year's shopping.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:29:10 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:


I planted them, then it rained and rained and would not stop raining.
The consensus is, they drowned. Believe it or not.

Thinking back to last spring, I'd believe anything. We had two floods
followed by a late freeze followed by more flooding, and then even an
earthquake thrown in just for chuckles. Most of my roses pretty much
just pouted all summer long after that.


Speaking of compact Austins, do you have Tamora? Way too cute.
Maybe 2.5 X 2.5 in my garden. Perfect container rose, I imagine,
though mine is in the ground. Not yellow, but peachy. Nice scent.

I thought about ordering a Tamora for this year. My mother has one in
her yard and absolutely loves it. I'm replacing the front row of a
bed in front of my living room window with compact bushes. The
current selections are Fair Bianca, Marmalade Skies, Europeana,
Kathryn Morley, and Betty Boop. If one of them can't make it through
the summer, Tamora is the current first choice as a replacement.

Betty Boop is one you may consider - if you like the color blend, the
bush is a big time bloomer.



You do know what I like! My DJ is in his fifth year, mingling with
Sombrueil in a mound on a chain link fence and climbing 15 feet
up into a row of mature hollies. Stunning!! An aptly names heartwrecker!

That's good to hear - a Don Juan was among the bare roots that I
bought on clearance in late May and let soak until October. It's
doing well so far, but this will be its first true growing season.
I'm hoping it will add a little zest to a plain old chain link fence.


And voles have eaten three of my Europeanas, but you bet I need to get it
again. The best red floribunda there is, even though I get no scent from it.
The perfect shape, too, and never out of bloom. Thanks for reminding me!

Kentucky Derby is another red that is really growing on me. It isn't
very fragrant, but the bush doesn't seem to mind summer heat and the
blooms have a perfect form. (I love the fragrant reds and dark reds,
but summer isn't kind to most of them. KD doesn't have as strong a
scent, but it's healthy and happy.)

Intrigue is the main purple that caught my attention during last
year's buying binge. This will be its first growing season. I'll let
you know how it does, and I'll keep Royal Amethyst in mind for this
year's shopping.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:29:10 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:


I planted them, then it rained and rained and would not stop raining.
The consensus is, they drowned. Believe it or not.

Thinking back to last spring, I'd believe anything. We had two floods
followed by a late freeze followed by more flooding, and then even an
earthquake thrown in just for chuckles. Most of my roses pretty much
just pouted all summer long after that.


Speaking of compact Austins, do you have Tamora? Way too cute.
Maybe 2.5 X 2.5 in my garden. Perfect container rose, I imagine,
though mine is in the ground. Not yellow, but peachy. Nice scent.

I thought about ordering a Tamora for this year. My mother has one in
her yard and absolutely loves it. I'm replacing the front row of a
bed in front of my living room window with compact bushes. The
current selections are Fair Bianca, Marmalade Skies, Europeana,
Kathryn Morley, and Betty Boop. If one of them can't make it through
the summer, Tamora is the current first choice as a replacement.

Betty Boop is one you may consider - if you like the color blend, the
bush is a big time bloomer.



You do know what I like! My DJ is in his fifth year, mingling with
Sombrueil in a mound on a chain link fence and climbing 15 feet
up into a row of mature hollies. Stunning!! An aptly names heartwrecker!

That's good to hear - a Don Juan was among the bare roots that I
bought on clearance in late May and let soak until October. It's
doing well so far, but this will be its first true growing season.
I'm hoping it will add a little zest to a plain old chain link fence.


And voles have eaten three of my Europeanas, but you bet I need to get it
again. The best red floribunda there is, even though I get no scent from it.
The perfect shape, too, and never out of bloom. Thanks for reminding me!

Kentucky Derby is another red that is really growing on me. It isn't
very fragrant, but the bush doesn't seem to mind summer heat and the
blooms have a perfect form. (I love the fragrant reds and dark reds,
but summer isn't kind to most of them. KD doesn't have as strong a
scent, but it's healthy and happy.)

Intrigue is the main purple that caught my attention during last
year's buying binge. This will be its first growing season. I'll let
you know how it does, and I'll keep Royal Amethyst in mind for this
year's shopping.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:42:43 GMT, torgo
wrote:

major snippage

I thought about ordering a Tamora for this year. My mother has one in
her yard and absolutely loves it. I'm replacing the front row of a
bed in front of my living room window with compact bushes. The
current selections are Fair Bianca, Marmalade Skies, Europeana,
Kathryn Morley, and Betty Boop. If one of them can't make it through
the summer, Tamora is the current first choice as a replacement.

And voles have eaten three of my Europeanas, but you bet I need to get it
again. The best red floribunda there is, even though I get no scent from it.
The perfect shape, too, and never out of bloom. Thanks for reminding me!

This discussion of Europeana made me think that I should mention
something that I talked about last year. I'm only bringing it up as a
cautionary tale for those who might suddenly be driven to buy some
Europeanas based on this discussion.

I went to my local Kroger's (a local grocery store chain for those
unfamiliar) one day and saw a bunch of cheap roses. You know the ones,
they are quasi bare root plants, packed with some sort of sawdusty
material and wrapped in plastic with a picture of the rose on it (they
look a little like a huge cigar with thorny things growing out of the
end). Having lost my Europeana to root gall, I jumped at the chance to
get a couple more Europeanas for $5 each.

Well, neither of them turned out to be Europeana. Not even close g.

So, be really careful when buying those $4.98 wrapped roses (yeah
yeah, I know - NONE of you will ever fall for them - I'm the only
chump around here chuckle), especially if they say Europeana on
them, because there are clearly some out there that *aren't*
Europeana. I wish I could remember the name of the company that
packages these. But you all have seen them all over the place.