Hi guys,

I noticed today on my "Tigress" bare root, some black spots.

The 2 branches with the black spots have no growth happening. But on the
other branches without black spots, you can see the rose growing. Should
I be worried?

Here are some pics of the black areas:

http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4682

http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4681

A pic of the new growth:
http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4683

OH, and my new gargoyle. :-)
http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4684

Emil
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com
http://web2news.com/?rec.gardens.roses

Emil wrote:

I noticed today on my "Tigress" bare root, some black spots.

The 2 branches with the black spots have no growth happening. But on the
other branches without black spots, you can see the rose growing. Should
I be worried?

Here are some pics of the black areas:

http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4682

Hi, Emil. Two points.

First, you need to do one thing that is very important ASAP: you need
to pile damp compost or sawdust or a soil mixture around your canes so
that only 2 inches are sticking out. The objective is to retain
moisture around the canes until the roots reestablish to provide
nutrients to the rose. Until that happens, the canes are subject to
dessication that can kill the rose. If the canes are in an awkward
location, you can make a collar out of cardboard or hardware cloth or
chicken wire to retain the compost. Keep the compost damp by daily
watering, but don't drown the rose. When you see new growth about an
inch or so in length, gradually, over the course of a few days, hose
off the compost, slowly exposing the canes. It can take up to 3 weeks
for new growth to occur.

Second, bareroot roses are processed mechanically, so the canes are
shortened to a standard length using saws, regardless of where the bud
eyes are located. As a result, your rose can may die back to the next
lowest bud eye. Some people trim their bareroots to a bud eye.

--
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html

"Emil" wrote :

I noticed today on my "Tigress" bare root, some black spots.

The 2 branches with the black spots have no growth happening. But on the
other branches without black spots, you can see the rose growing. Should
I be worried?

Here are some pics of the black areas:

http://dodgetrucks.org/cgi-bin/index.pl?photo=4682

Emil, here's what I mean. You can see the new growth, which means it
is time to start hosing off the mulch. You can also see the black part
of the cane in the center, marked in magenta, which will die back down
to the bud eye that is breaking new growth (circled). This is not a
problem.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...oundedCane.jpg

Here is an example of a cordboard mulch collar. This is the same 10
gallon pot. It works in the garden too.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...ulchCollar.jpg

--
Cass

Cass

Hi, Emil. Two points.

First, you need to do one thing that is very important ASAP: you need
to pile damp compost or sawdust or a soil mixture around your canes so
that only 2 inches are sticking out. The objective is to retain
moisture around the canes until the roots reestablish to provide
nutrients to the rose. Until that happens, the canes are subject to
dessication that can kill the rose. If the canes are in an awkward
location, you can make a collar out of cardboard or hardware cloth or
chicken wire to retain the compost. Keep the compost damp by daily
watering, but don't drown the rose. When you see new growth about an
inch or so in length, gradually, over the course of a few days, hose
off the compost, slowly exposing the canes. It can take up to 3 weeks
for new growth to occur.

Second, bareroot roses are processed mechanically, so the canes are
shortened to a standard length using saws, regardless of where the bud
eyes are located. As a result, your rose can may die back to the next
lowest bud eye. Some people trim their bareroots to a bud eye.

Hi Cass,

I am confused. I already have new growth growing on all the bareroots. One of
them is longer than an inch. Should I still pile soil so that only 2 inches are
sticking out on all the bareroots, or just the 2 with less growth? Can I use a
Home Depot bought "Supersoil" mixture?
I'm in Zones 9-10, Southern, CA city of Tujunga.

Thanks,
Emil

A guy named Emil wrote:

Hi Cass,

I am confused. I already have new growth growing on all the bareroots. One of
them is longer than an inch. Should I still pile soil so that only 2 inches
are
sticking out on all the bareroots, or just the 2 with less growth? Can I use a
Home Depot bought "Supersoil" mixture?
I'm in Zones 9-10, Southern, CA city of Tujunga.

I'm sorry if I missed reading your posts about growth on all your
bareroots. I didn't notice growth on the picture you posted on your
gallery. If you really already have whole leaves growing from any
bareroot, you don't need to mound. If any bareroots have only swollen
buds without any leaves (which is what you circled in red), then you
should mound until you see new growth. I remember that you are in
SoCal, and I've heard that it's been quite warm wih Santa Ana winds.
Those conditions can kill a bareroot rose that gets too dry.

Supersoil, a potting mix, is probably okay, tho I prefer compost
because of its superior ability to hold water. Potting soils can dry
out quickly when it's windy. Wet sawdust is also okay.

It can take quite a mound of compost to cover all but the top 2 inches
of the canes. That's why I use collars when I need to. I planted the
bareroot that I showed at
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...oundedCane.jpg
on January 17, and I'm already hosing the compost off a little at a
time because I can see growth of about 2 inches in length on the left
side. Once I started hosing off the compost, I found considerably more
growth.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

--
Cass

Cass

I'm sorry if I missed reading your posts about growth on all your
bareroots. I didn't notice growth on the picture you posted on your
gallery. If you really already have whole leaves growing from any
bareroot, you don't need to mound. If any bareroots have only swollen
buds without any leaves (which is what you circled in red), then you
should mound until you see new growth. I remember that you are in
SoCal, and I've heard that it's been quite warm wih Santa Ana winds.
Those conditions can kill a bareroot rose that gets too dry.

Supersoil, a potting mix, is probably okay, tho I prefer compost
because of its superior ability to hold water. Potting soils can dry
out quickly when it's windy. Wet sawdust is also okay.

It can take quite a mound of compost to cover all but the top 2 inches
of the canes. That's why I use collars when I need to. I planted the
bareroot that I showed at
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...oundedCane.jpg
on January 17, and I'm already hosing the compost off a little at a
time because I can see growth of about 2 inches in length on the left
side. Once I started hosing off the compost, I found considerably more
growth.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

Ahhhhhhh, now I get it! :-)
Yes, the circled areas are little bud's. My Moonshadow bareroot has some
awesome leaf growth going on.
This is probably a stupid question. Is it normal for some bareroots to develop
faster than others? I ask because the Moonshadow I mentioned has a couple of
inches of leaves already, the others just have buds developing. All were
planted at the same time.

Thanks,
Emil

On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 05:51:41 GMT, Cass
wrote:

A guy named Emil wrote:

Hi Cass,

I am confused. I already have new growth growing on all the bareroots. One of
them is longer than an inch. Should I still pile soil so that only 2 inches
are
sticking out on all the bareroots, or just the 2 with less growth? Can I use a
Home Depot bought "Supersoil" mixture?
I'm in Zones 9-10, Southern, CA city of Tujunga.

I'm sorry if I missed reading your posts about growth on all your
bareroots. I didn't notice growth on the picture you posted on your
gallery. If you really already have whole leaves growing from any
bareroot, you don't need to mound. If any bareroots have only swollen
buds without any leaves (which is what you circled in red), then you
should mound until you see new growth. I remember that you are in
SoCal, and I've heard that it's been quite warm wih Santa Ana winds.
Those conditions can kill a bareroot rose that gets too dry.

Supersoil, a potting mix, is probably okay, tho I prefer compost
because of its superior ability to hold water. Potting soils can dry
out quickly when it's windy. Wet sawdust is also okay.

I just use normal garden mulch. It allows good circulation because
it's rather loose.

I'm not sure if the humidity-holding aspects of the mound are all that
important. I would think that the mound should actually dry pretty
quickly to prevent fungi on the canes. The fact that it's porous and
insulating at the same time will allow the *soil* to remail moist
(since that's its function when used as a top-dressing).

My experience is of course in the far more humid and rainy south. But
I've always planted my bareroots during a time in early spring when it
seems to dry out for a few weeks at a time (right before the deluges
of April and May), which is perfect, because I can just wet the mound
down every 3 days or so.

It can take quite a mound of compost to cover all but the top 2 inches
of the canes. That's why I use collars when I need to. I planted the
bareroot that I showed at
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...oundedCane.jpg
on January 17, and I'm already hosing the compost off a little at a
time because I can see growth of about 2 inches in length on the left
side. Once I started hosing off the compost, I found considerably more
growth.

I seem to remember it taking about a bag of mulch for every 2 plants,
with a little left over. The advantage of mulch is self-evident for a
lazy guy such as myself - I've got my mulch coverage and ring (if I
desire) simply by pulling the mulch away from the plant. Of course, I
don't need to add any significant compost to the area because my soil
is already earthworm-heavy, black, crumbly friable soil with a soupcon
of sand already included. I'm sure that there's clay or rock down
there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I've ever hit it.

Now, the back yard, *that's* a different kettle of fish. I have a
patch of the same type of soil, but the rest of it is ex-gravel-
driveway and ex. cement barn foundation.

I *love* saving steps, so mulch-mounding is for me.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

What question? There was a question?

On 01 Feb 2003 07:24:31 GMT, (A guy named Emil) wrote:

Cass

I'm sorry if I missed reading your posts about growth on all your
bareroots. I didn't notice growth on the picture you posted on your
gallery. If you really already have whole leaves growing from any
bareroot, you don't need to mound. If any bareroots have only swollen
buds without any leaves (which is what you circled in red), then you
should mound until you see new growth. I remember that you are in
SoCal, and I've heard that it's been quite warm wih Santa Ana winds.
Those conditions can kill a bareroot rose that gets too dry.

Supersoil, a potting mix, is probably okay, tho I prefer compost
because of its superior ability to hold water. Potting soils can dry
out quickly when it's windy. Wet sawdust is also okay.

It can take quite a mound of compost to cover all but the top 2 inches
of the canes. That's why I use collars when I need to. I planted the
bareroot that I showed at
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...oundedCane.jpg
on January 17, and I'm already hosing the compost off a little at a
time because I can see growth of about 2 inches in length on the left
side. Once I started hosing off the compost, I found considerably more
growth.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

Ahhhhhhh, now I get it! :-)
Yes, the circled areas are little bud's. My Moonshadow bareroot has some
awesome leaf growth going on.
This is probably a stupid question. Is it normal for some bareroots to develop
faster than others? I ask because the Moonshadow I mentioned has a couple of
inches of leaves already, the others just have buds developing. All were
planted at the same time.

Thanks,
Emil

Yes, it's normal for different plants to develop at different rates,
even two of the same type of plant. Some of it is genetic, some of it
is environmental (obviously, they can't be planted in *exactly* the
same spot) and some of it is the pre-existing vigor of the root system
and plant as a whole.

As long as you're getting bud development, and not seeing any real
problems like cane discoloration, I wouldn't worry.

In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 05:51:41 GMT, Cass
wrote:

A guy named Emil wrote:
Hi Cass,

I am confused. I already have new growth growing on all the
bareroots. One of them is longer than an inch. Should I still pile
soil so that only 2 inches are sticking out on all the bareroots,
or just the 2 with less growth? Can I use a Home Depot bought
"Supersoil" mixture? I'm in Zones 9-10, Southern, CA city of
Tujunga.

I'm sorry if I missed reading your posts about growth on all your
bareroots. I didn't notice growth on the picture you posted on your
gallery. If you really already have whole leaves growing from any
bareroot, you don't need to mound. If any bareroots have only swollen
buds without any leaves (which is what you circled in red), then you
should mound until you see new growth. I remember that you are in
SoCal, and I've heard that it's been quite warm wih Santa Ana winds.
Those conditions can kill a bareroot rose that gets too dry.

Supersoil, a potting mix, is probably okay, tho I prefer compost
because of its superior ability to hold water. Potting soils can dry
out quickly when it's windy. Wet sawdust is also okay.

I just use normal garden mulch. It allows good circulation because
it's rather loose.

I'm not sure if the humidity-holding aspects of the mound are all that
important. I would think that the mound should actually dry pretty
quickly to prevent fungi on the canes. The fact that it's porous and
insulating at the same time will allow the *soil* to remail moist
(since that's its function when used as a top-dressing).

My experience is of course in the far more humid and rainy south. But
I've always planted my bareroots during a time in early spring when it
seems to dry out for a few weeks at a time (right before the deluges
of April and May), which is perfect, because I can just wet the mound
down every 3 days or so.

In a dry climate, keeping the canes from drying out is essential,
especially as the year progresses and the roses are planted later and
later. Those bareroot roses have been in cold storage since October. A
bareroot rose has only anchor roots - the feeder roots have died. So
until the rose grows new feeder roots, it is at real risk of drying up.
Because it has been exposed to air, light, and water, which trigger top
growth, it can lose more moisture than it can absorb.

Anyway, that's the theory. In practice I can assure you that you can
kill a bareroot rose if it is exposed to very drying conditions (wind
and heat) shortly after planting. We in the arid West should mulch and
keep it damp.

SoCal has few fungal problems. In fact, in very dry climates like
Arizona, bareroot roses are sold with a coating of anti-dessicant to
keep them from drying out.

"Cass" wrote in message
...
In article , dave weil
wrote:

SoCal has few fungal problems. In fact, in very dry climates like
Arizona, bareroot roses are sold with a coating of anti-dessicant to
keep them from drying out.

Anti-dessicant? Gee, up here in Seattle, all we get is wax.

JimS.
Seattle- Z8

JimS. wrote:

"Cass" wrote in message

SoCal has few fungal problems. In fact, in very dry climates like
Arizona, bareroot roses are sold with a coating of anti-dessicant to
keep them from drying out.

Anti-dessicant? Gee, up here in Seattle, all we get is wax.

Apparently it looks a lot like wax but isn't. It's like Wilf-Pruf or
Cloud Cover. I've never used either, so I don't know what they look
like.

JimS. wrote:

Anti-dessicant? Gee, up here in Seattle, all we get is wax.

Jeeze! MUST you be such a terminal smart ass? g

~~~~Shiva, Queen of Saying What Everyone Else is Thinking but are not
RUDE enough to SAY!~~~~

You're welcome, people!




JimS.
Seattle- Z8

A guy named Emil wrote:

Can I use a
Home Depot bought "Supersoil" mixture?

Although the name sounds really great, 'Supersoil' bought at home
depot is horrible awful crappy stuff. It is a fraud. Don't even
consider buying it. It is mostly uncomposted wood chips and is
actually detrimental to your plants. It sucks nitrogen out of the
soil in order to decompose the wood.

The stuff to get at home depot is EarthGro 'potting soil'. (2 cu ft
for $3.96 at my Home Deot). Probably the best deal I've seen out
there for quality potting soil.

Bob Bauer
Zone 6 in Salt Lake City
http://www.rose-roses.com/

Bob Bauer

Although the name sounds really great, 'Supersoil' bought at home
depot is horrible awful crappy stuff. It is a fraud. Don't even
consider buying it. It is mostly uncomposted wood chips and is
actually detrimental to your plants. It sucks nitrogen out of the
soil in order to decompose the wood.

The stuff to get at home depot is EarthGro 'potting soil'. (2 cu ft
for $3.96 at my Home Deot). Probably the best deal I've seen out
there for quality potting soil.


I've had great success with Supersoil. I didn't realize it was "bad." I have
also used the EarthGro brand. Sounds like I'll be buying EarthGro from now on!

Thanks,
Emil