dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 8 Mar 2004 13:40:58 -0800, (Dan Gannon) wrote:

I think fragrant miniatures have great potential, for use in planters
and pots, both indoors and outdoors.

I wanted to commend you on taking my "berating" in a positive spirit.
You're probably less defensive than *I* would have been.

Thanks, Dave. Actually, I think you weren't that harsh. Believe me,
I've seen worse. :-)

I didn't really want to respond to your response point by point, but I
*did* want to respond to this point.

Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

I think there's truth to what you're saying. But I think it's
possible to keep a miniature rose as a houseplant indefinitely, for
three basic reasons:
1) Years ago, I successfully kept a miniature rose indoors for 3
years, before planting it outdoors. Granted, it grew more and
produced more blooms outdoors, but it did pretty well indoors, after I
learned how to control fungal infections.
2) I'm basically an optimist
3) I'm an experimenter (which feeds into #2)

But (I hear you say now), that's the same as orchids, right? Well,
sorta. However, orchids are different in that they are almost
succulents and can withstand spider mites for a little longer than the
paper thin leaves of miniature roses. Plus, they seem a little more
suited to the kinds of climates that humans find comfortable (in that
you can actually use lights to create little micro-climates - but
again, circulation is key for them as well).

There are certain places where you might be able to easily grow roses
"indoors". I'm thinking of Southern California or Hawaiian rooms that
might involve walled in porches and the like (you know, those
wonderful homes that don't need air conditioning and you can leave
open year round if yu choose). but for the average apartment dweller,
I think it would be a stuggle to keep an indoor miniature rose happy
for very long. Sure, you can have success for weeks or even months at
a time, I suppose, but really, to be successful, the plant needs to
breath fresh outdoor air instead of canned, recirculating air
conditioned air, even if it's humidified. This is just a guess on my
part.

Perhaps, some research could be done to genetically breed strains of
roses that are tolerant of indoor conditions. Since there are roses
that grow in cooler climates, perhaps they could be developed to like
similar temperatures to indoor conditions.

That could be useful. When I grew that rose indoors for 3 years, it
was in front of a huge, south-facing window. That area got quite cold
in the winter, sometimes even below freezing, and pretty warm in the
summer. Also, sometimes we opened the windows or took it outside, to
give it some direct sunlight and fresh air.

Oh yeah, the conversation around here is very cyclical, just like
gardening is. We are about to get an increased volume of postings as
people get out and putz around with their roses during growing season.
We are now on the cusp of going from virtually no postings to an
explosion of interest in gabbing about the hobby. Still, this is a
fairly mature newsgroup (in terms of age - I know that *I'm* not
particularly mature g). That means that many subjects are old hat
and have been rehashed many times. So, a lot of the conversation in
the coming months will be connected with helping newbies to the hobby
and talking about new varieties. This doesn't mean that we don't like
talking about roses though.

I see what you're saying. I hadn't really been considering that sort
of thing. As for maturity, I think it's often overrated, anyway. ;-)

Well, now I think I'll retire to thoughts of pruning, fertilizing and
wish-list making...

Sounds like fun to me!

Dan

Susan wrote:
BTW, Dan, thanks for the invite but I just can't join any mailing lists
at this time. My problem is that I simly do not have the time to be
involved with any more lists than I already am. With newsgroups, I can
drop in and out as I desire and don't quite feel the obligation to
contribute that I do with mailing lists.

Actually Susan, Yahoo groups do not have to be used as mailing lists. When
you sign up to a group you can select to only read the messages online
rather than have the emails sent to you. I do this with a couple of Yahoo
groups and it allows me to read/contribute as much or as little I like as
time allows. In fact, I don't think you even have to be a member of this
particular group to read the posts.

Cheers,

Kirra
Brisbane, Australia

Hi Dave,

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 8 Mar 2004 13:40:58 -0800, (Dan Gannon) wrote:

I think fragrant miniatures have great potential, for use in planters
and pots, both indoors and outdoors.

I wanted to commend you on taking my "berating" in a positive spirit.
You're probably less defensive than *I* would have been.

Thanks. I didn't think you were really that harsh. I guess you could
say I've seen worse!

I didn't really want to respond to your response point by point, but I
*did* want to respond to this point.

Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Probably true. But, years ago, I successfully kept a miniature rose
as a house plant for 3 years, in front of a large South-facing window.
After I learned to keep it from getting fungal infections, it grew
and bloomed well. But when I finally planted it outside, it did even
better. It was one of those unnamed cultivars, with red blooms. It
never grew more than about 1.5 feet tall. Many of the varieties I see
available today are more attractive than it was. But that rose lived
for at least 12 years (that's the last time I checked on it... if
it's alive today, it would be about 17 years old.)

But (I hear you say now), that's the same as orchids, right? Well,
sorta. However, orchids are different in that they are almost
succulents and can withstand spider mites for a little longer than the
paper thin leaves of miniature roses. Plus, they seem a little more
suited to the kinds of climates that humans find comfortable (in that
you can actually use lights to create little micro-climates - but
again, circulation is key for them as well).

There are certain places where you might be able to easily grow roses
"indoors". I'm thinking of Southern California or Hawaiian rooms that
might involve walled in porches and the like (you know, those
wonderful homes that don't need air conditioning and you can leave
open year round if yu choose). but for the average apartment dweller,
I think it would be a stuggle to keep an indoor miniature rose happy
for very long. Sure, you can have success for weeks or even months at
a time, I suppose, but really, to be successful, the plant needs to
breath fresh outdoor air instead of canned, recirculating air
conditioned air, even if it's humidified. This is just a guess on my
part.

Judging from the success I had, keeping that miniature rose as a house
plant, I'd say the major considerations to keeping it healthy we
adequate light, relatively constant moisture without overwatering, and
preventing fungus. (It never was infested with any parasites.)
Preventing fungus turned out to be a simple matter of removing any
fungus-infected foliage, and putting the plant out in the sunlight and
fresh air for a time, before bringing it back inside. And spraying
the plant's foliage with water was definitely a bad idea, as I quickly
discovered. One thing that may have worked in that plant's favor is,
the temperature in that windowsill fluctuated dramtically throughout
the year. Sometimes freezing temperatures occurred there during the
winters, and during the summer, it was definitely quite warm. That
rose never lost all of its leaves, but it stop almost all of its
growth during the winters, and spent at least 2 or 3 months every year
without blooming. I think those may have been an important
considerations. Something else I noticed, high humidity indoors
tended to cause the rose to get fungal infections. But the occasional
nibbling by my house-cat didn't seem to hurt it at all. ;-)

Perhaps, some research could be done to genetically breed strains of
roses that are tolerant of indoor conditions. Since there are roses
that grow in cooler climates, perhaps they could be developed to like
similar temperatures to indoor conditions.

Yes, I think that would help matters quite a bit!

Oh yeah, the conversation around here is very cyclical, just like
gardening is. We are about to get an increased volume of postings as
people get out and putz around with their roses during growing season.
We are now on the cusp of going from virtually no postings to an
explosion of interest in gabbing about the hobby. Still, this is a
fairly mature newsgroup (in terms of age - I know that *I'm* not
particularly mature g). That means that many subjects are old hat
and have been rehashed many times. So, a lot of the conversation in
the coming months will be connected with helping newbies to the hobby
and talking about new varieties. This doesn't mean that we don't like
talking about roses though.

I see. I hadn't considered that before.

Well, now I think I'll retire to thoughts of pruning, fertilizing and
wish-list making...

Sounds like fun to me!

Dan

Hi Dave,

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 8 Mar 2004 13:40:58 -0800, (Dan Gannon) wrote:

I think fragrant miniatures have great potential, for use in planters
and pots, both indoors and outdoors.

I wanted to commend you on taking my "berating" in a positive spirit.
You're probably less defensive than *I* would have been.

Thanks. I didn't think you were really that harsh. I guess you could
say I've seen worse!

I didn't really want to respond to your response point by point, but I
*did* want to respond to this point.

Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Probably true. But, years ago, I successfully kept a miniature rose
as a house plant for 3 years, in front of a large South-facing window.
After I learned to keep it from getting fungal infections, it grew
and bloomed well. But when I finally planted it outside, it did even
better. It was one of those unnamed cultivars, with red blooms. It
never grew more than about 1.5 feet tall. Many of the varieties I see
available today are more attractive than it was. But that rose lived
for at least 12 years (that's the last time I checked on it... if
it's alive today, it would be about 17 years old.)

But (I hear you say now), that's the same as orchids, right? Well,
sorta. However, orchids are different in that they are almost
succulents and can withstand spider mites for a little longer than the
paper thin leaves of miniature roses. Plus, they seem a little more
suited to the kinds of climates that humans find comfortable (in that
you can actually use lights to create little micro-climates - but
again, circulation is key for them as well).

There are certain places where you might be able to easily grow roses
"indoors". I'm thinking of Southern California or Hawaiian rooms that
might involve walled in porches and the like (you know, those
wonderful homes that don't need air conditioning and you can leave
open year round if yu choose). but for the average apartment dweller,
I think it would be a stuggle to keep an indoor miniature rose happy
for very long. Sure, you can have success for weeks or even months at
a time, I suppose, but really, to be successful, the plant needs to
breath fresh outdoor air instead of canned, recirculating air
conditioned air, even if it's humidified. This is just a guess on my
part.

Judging from the success I had, keeping that miniature rose as a house
plant, I'd say the major considerations to keeping it healthy we
adequate light, relatively constant moisture without overwatering, and
preventing fungus. (It never was infested with any parasites.)
Preventing fungus turned out to be a simple matter of removing any
fungus-infected foliage, and putting the plant out in the sunlight and
fresh air for a time, before bringing it back inside. And spraying
the plant's foliage with water was definitely a bad idea, as I quickly
discovered. One thing that may have worked in that plant's favor is,
the temperature in that windowsill fluctuated dramtically throughout
the year. Sometimes freezing temperatures occurred there during the
winters, and during the summer, it was definitely quite warm. That
rose never lost all of its leaves, but it stop almost all of its
growth during the winters, and spent at least 2 or 3 months every year
without blooming. I think those may have been an important
considerations. Something else I noticed, high humidity indoors
tended to cause the rose to get fungal infections. But the occasional
nibbling by my house-cat didn't seem to hurt it at all. ;-)

Perhaps, some research could be done to genetically breed strains of
roses that are tolerant of indoor conditions. Since there are roses
that grow in cooler climates, perhaps they could be developed to like
similar temperatures to indoor conditions.

Yes, I think that would help matters quite a bit!

Oh yeah, the conversation around here is very cyclical, just like
gardening is. We are about to get an increased volume of postings as
people get out and putz around with their roses during growing season.
We are now on the cusp of going from virtually no postings to an
explosion of interest in gabbing about the hobby. Still, this is a
fairly mature newsgroup (in terms of age - I know that *I'm* not
particularly mature g). That means that many subjects are old hat
and have been rehashed many times. So, a lot of the conversation in
the coming months will be connected with helping newbies to the hobby
and talking about new varieties. This doesn't mean that we don't like
talking about roses though.

I see. I hadn't considered that before.

Well, now I think I'll retire to thoughts of pruning, fertilizing and
wish-list making...

Sounds like fun to me!

Dan

Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5



Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5



Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5



Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5



Someone else alluded to this, but I think that you really shouldn't
consider roses of any kind as an indoor plant. Sure, one might have
limited success, but roses are really outdoor plants. The biggest
problem isn't light - as you alluded to, lighting can be duplicated.
The problem is that roses don't *generally* like to live in the same
environment that most humans enjoy. They like open air and *generally*
higher daytime temperatures than humans like. They don't particularly
like to have their roots confined and they are easily affected by
spider mites in "placid" air conditions (not to be confused with "air
conditioning"). I suspect that they are genetically programmed to
respond to the normal differences between day and night temperatures
as well.

Hi Marshall,

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Basically, I used fresh air and sunlight to prevent fungal infections,
combined with removing any infected foliage. Sometimes the plant was
placed outside for several days, and sometimes we opened the windows
for fresh air. Also, I learned to avoid spraying the foliage with
water, while it was indoors.

I've heard that some people have used dilute hydrogen peroxide as a
foliar spray, to prevent or treat fungus. If I tried that, I'd put
the plant outdoors in a sunny location so it could dry quickly.

Dan

(Marshall Dermer) wrote in message ...
In article (Dan Gannon) writes:
Dave,

I know many have said it's difficult to impossible to keep them
indoors, but so far, I've had nothing but success with it.

How do you prevent the various fungus infections without using
some awful fungicide that is meant to be used outdoors?

--Marshall

dave weil wrote in message . ..
I know many have said it's difficult to impossible to keep them
indoors, but so far, I've had nothing but success with it.

How do you prevent the various fungus infections without using
some awful fungicide that is meant to be used outdoors?

I'd also have to ask how long this success has been achieved.

I know I answered this earlier, but it was 3 years. (A single
specimen, my first miniature rose.)

I have a hard time envisioning a long life for a miniature rose
indoors in a typical apartment without a *serious* array of apparati.
And that's hardly: "How else can one easily keep a
rose - which *smells* like a rose should - as a houseplant, or keep
quite a few of them on a porch or patio"?

It was just potted in a typical 8" pot, and kept in a large,
South-facing windowsill. I carefully avoided over-watering, tried to
water again before the foliage wilted at all from dehydration, and we
sometimes opened the windows during warm days, and sometimes put the
plant outdoors, for up to a few days at a time.

I'm skeptical about the "easy" claim regarding keeping miniatures in
"an apartment or condo". I can certainly see keeping them on a porch
or patio, but inside?

Well, it was easy for me, under those conditions. Now I have a new
bunch of miniature roses, and I'm trying to see if I can replicate
that success. I don't have a South-facing window now, so I'm using
fluorescent shop lights, suspended about 5 inches above the foliage.
I'll see how long they do well without placing them outside for sun
and fresh air (hopefully, indefinitely, but I'm willing to place them
outside if necessary, even permanently.)

Hell, orchids are a lot easier and they still need a lot of help in
most homes (lights, pebble trays, humidifiers, fans, etc.). We aren't
talking about pothos after all...

I'll see if that kind of equipment proves to be necessary. I think a
fan would help control fungus, but I don't think I'll need to use a
pebble tray or humidifier. The plants seem very capable of hydrating
themselves adequately, through their root systems, with the prevailing
humidity in my apartment (which averages about 70%.) I do have some
aquariums which tend to humidify the apartment, and I have a
dehumidifier in my "fish room," to keep the humidity from rising above
70%. Since most people don't have that setup, I'll also be
experimenting in family and friends' residences, if they'll allow me.
I don't think it will be difficult to persuade them, after they see
and smell the roses.

Now bringing a potted mini in for a night or two to act as a
centerpiece on a table I can see...

I imagine that would work well.

Dan

"Sunflower" wrote in message ...
So, you're identifying these fragrant minis through literature and
hybridizers descriptions?

I had to start somewhere. My first strategy has been to run lots of
Google searches, scouring the Internet for mentions of fragrant
miniatures. I found quite a bit that way. Since then, I've learned
of some more, by word of mouth. When the roses are in bloom locally,
I'm planning to visit the major gardens and nurseries which have
miniatures, and personally smell them. I'll also be checking out
books at the library, and probably contacting people "in the
business," to see if they know of other fragrant varieties.

How many of them do you *personally* grow and have *personal* experience
with to judge that they are fragrant?

Currently, I'm personally growing 9 varieties indoors. I'll be
growing more later. I don't think I need to personally grow all of
them, so I pick and choose among those that interest me most.

And, what type of standard are you using to judge the strength of that
fragrance? My standard for a HT would be Fragrant Cloud, for a noisette,
Blush Noisette, for a polyantha Perle d'Or, etc. My standard for a fragrant
mini would be Sweet Chariot, which although nicely scented, isn't what I'd
call terribly strongly scented. It's also probably one of the best as far as
BS resistance goes, but that is such a joke that you couldn't compare it to,
say a china at all and come out looking good.

Yes, Sweet Chariot would be a good standard for a fragrant mini, as
would some others. I may just start by noting personal observations,
like: no fragrance, light fragrance, moderate fragrance, strong
fragrance. I suppose panels of rose smellers(?) could work the rest
out later. Maybe the ARS would be interested in evaluating or
re-evaluating the fragrant minis, to judge their fragrances. I'm not
yet experienced in that area.

Dan

Theo,

You make some good points. I suppose I've been lucky so far, in not
encountering any infestations in my minis.

I disagree on one point. I think chemical sprays can be used for
miniature roses grown indoors. I would just take the plant outside,
to a well-ventilated area away from birds and such, spray it there,
then move it back inside. I'd suggest waiting a few minutes before
bringing it back inside, for the chemical smell to mostly dissipate.
That's essentially what I plan to do, should I need to spray any of
them.

Dan

"Theo" wrote in message ws.com...
Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5

"Sunflower" wrote in message ...
So, you're identifying these fragrant minis through literature and
hybridizers descriptions?

I had to start somewhere. My first strategy has been to run lots of
Google searches, scouring the Internet for mentions of fragrant
miniatures. I found quite a bit that way. Since then, I've learned
of some more, by word of mouth. When the roses are in bloom locally,
I'm planning to visit the major gardens and nurseries which have
miniatures, and personally smell them. I'll also be checking out
books at the library, and probably contacting people "in the
business," to see if they know of other fragrant varieties.

How many of them do you *personally* grow and have *personal* experience
with to judge that they are fragrant?

Currently, I'm personally growing 9 varieties indoors. I'll be
growing more later. I don't think I need to personally grow all of
them, so I pick and choose among those that interest me most.

And, what type of standard are you using to judge the strength of that
fragrance? My standard for a HT would be Fragrant Cloud, for a noisette,
Blush Noisette, for a polyantha Perle d'Or, etc. My standard for a fragrant
mini would be Sweet Chariot, which although nicely scented, isn't what I'd
call terribly strongly scented. It's also probably one of the best as far as
BS resistance goes, but that is such a joke that you couldn't compare it to,
say a china at all and come out looking good.

Yes, Sweet Chariot would be a good standard for a fragrant mini, as
would some others. I may just start by noting personal observations,
like: no fragrance, light fragrance, moderate fragrance, strong
fragrance. I suppose panels of rose smellers(?) could work the rest
out later. Maybe the ARS would be interested in evaluating or
re-evaluating the fragrant minis, to judge their fragrances. I'm not
yet experienced in that area.

Dan

Theo,

You make some good points. I suppose I've been lucky so far, in not
encountering any infestations in my minis.

I disagree on one point. I think chemical sprays can be used for
miniature roses grown indoors. I would just take the plant outside,
to a well-ventilated area away from birds and such, spray it there,
then move it back inside. I'd suggest waiting a few minutes before
bringing it back inside, for the chemical smell to mostly dissipate.
That's essentially what I plan to do, should I need to spray any of
them.

Dan

"Theo" wrote in message ws.com...
Dave,

I'd like to qualify your statements a bit if I may.
Roses 'generally' don't necessarily dislike indoor
climate control. In fact mine atleast love the lack of
variation and grow and bloom constantly.

What they 'do not' like is cross contamination of indoor
and out door climate. In other words, keeping a rose out on
the porch for 2 months them bringing it in for 3 weeks
is a strict no no. Disease and pests that were under control
out side turn into raging problems in a heart beat inside.
Conversely problems you never saw inside turn into plant killers
out side.

Roses take weeks or months to acclimatize to their micro climate.
Indoors roses have a lower number of interventions possible.
Spraying is not really an option. So keep those indoor roses inside
and prevent contamination and you should be fine.

--
Theo

in KC Z5

"Dan Gannon" wrote in message
om...
"Sunflower" wrote in message
...
So, you're identifying these fragrant minis through literature and
hybridizers descriptions?

I had to start somewhere. My first strategy has been to run lots of
Google searches, scouring the Internet for mentions of fragrant
miniatures. I found quite a bit that way. Since then, I've learned
of some more, by word of mouth. When the roses are in bloom locally,
I'm planning to visit the major gardens and nurseries which have
miniatures, and personally smell them. I'll also be checking out
books at the library, and probably contacting people "in the
business," to see if they know of other fragrant varieties.

How many of them do you *personally* grow and have *personal* experience
with to judge that they are fragrant?

Currently, I'm personally growing 9 varieties indoors. I'll be
growing more later. I don't think I need to personally grow all of
them, so I pick and choose among those that interest me most.

You do if you're going to describe them as fragrant. There is NO substitute
for personal experience. 9 varieties is hardly a representative sample of
the thousands of minis on the market. Second hand reportage of something as
ephemeral and individual as fragrance is misleading. Hybridizers and
marketers are notoriously optimistic in their glowing descriptive terms.
Marketing isn't fact. Nose sniffing in person is.

And, what type of standard are you using to judge the strength of that
fragrance? My standard for a HT would be Fragrant Cloud, for a
noisette,
Blush Noisette, for a polyantha Perle d'Or, etc. My standard for a
fragrant
mini would be Sweet Chariot, which although nicely scented, isn't what
I'd
call terribly strongly scented. It's also probably one of the best as
far as
BS resistance goes, but that is such a joke that you couldn't compare it
to,
say a china at all and come out looking good.

Yes, Sweet Chariot would be a good standard for a fragrant mini, as
would some others. I may just start by noting personal observations,
like: no fragrance, light fragrance, moderate fragrance, strong
fragrance. I suppose panels of rose smellers(?) could work the rest
out later. Maybe the ARS would be interested in evaluating or
re-evaluating the fragrant minis, to judge their fragrances. I'm not
yet experienced in that area.

The ARS doesn't evaluate minis. Individual growers of all kinds of roses
evaluate what they grow in RIR, and you don't have to be an ARS member to
participate. (Are you and ARS member and did you participate? And are you
a RHA member since you want to produce your own hybrids?) And the AOE, like
the AARS is a professional growers award, and doesn't have anything to do
with the public's evaluation of a mini as gardenworthy, disease resistant,
or scented. As far as the ARS folks go, the majority of office holders and
doers would be interested in a mini's show potential, which again doesn't
coincide with disease resistance or fragrance.

Dan