Hi!

I'm new to this group, and have been growing roses for seven years. Let me
backtrack he I killed everything I planted the first three years, and
then started choosing my planting areas more carefully, and started with
better quality specimens, and now I am up to well over a hundred. Probably
closer to 200, but I don't count miniatures, freebies, unplanted ones, etc.


I have seen Blue Girl mentioned here. I bought that about three years ago
from the old Michigan Bulb Company (before I knew better), and it was a
rotty looking stick, as were the others they sent me. Only two of the seven
I purchased then are alive today, including Blue Girl.

She has some pretty blooms, but it is not as vigorous nor as prolific as the
Stainless Steel, another "mauve" rose, planted right beside her for
comparison. The color and form are fairly similar, that I would not hesitate
to recommend Stainless Steel to anyone considering Blue Girl, at least in
this area, the Eastern Shore of Maryland. The amount of blooms SS gives, and
the form, are tremendous. It's a healthy, vigorous plant, but it does almost
defoliate from time to time...I suspect spider mites, but roses next to it
can be unaffected. It always bounces right back.

In our area, 7b, we usually have moderate winters, although this one has
been vicious. At least it has mostly stayed frozen, instead of the constant
freeze-thaw cycle that is a plant killer.

As nasty as this winter has been, I plan to wait until the end of the first
week in March to prune, unless the weather takes a definite turn for the
better. Last spring, I pruned at the end of February, and had blooms at the
end of March. But it was such a mild winter, that some of the little
reprobates simply refused to go completely dormant. Climbing New Dawn, for
example...never lost its leaves. And it's still got most of them now!

I need to get out there and dormant spray.


Scopata Fuori

Welcome, Scopata. It's nice to have someone from the Maryland shore in
the group. It's hard to find info online about your area, and there are
a fair number of questions here, usually along the lines of, "Should I
prune my roses now [in October]" and "how do I winter protect."
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html



Scopata Fuori wrote:

Hi!

I'm new to this group, and have been growing roses for seven years. Let me
backtrack he I killed everything I planted the first three years, and
then started choosing my planting areas more carefully, and started with
better quality specimens, and now I am up to well over a hundred. Probably
closer to 200, but I don't count miniatures, freebies, unplanted ones, etc.


I have seen Blue Girl mentioned here. I bought that about three years ago
from the old Michigan Bulb Company (before I knew better), and it was a
rotty looking stick, as were the others they sent me. Only two of the seven
I purchased then are alive today, including Blue Girl.

She has some pretty blooms, but it is not as vigorous nor as prolific as the
Stainless Steel, another "mauve" rose, planted right beside her for
comparison. The color and form are fairly similar, that I would not hesitate
to recommend Stainless Steel to anyone considering Blue Girl, at least in
this area, the Eastern Shore of Maryland. The amount of blooms SS gives, and
the form, are tremendous. It's a healthy, vigorous plant, but it does almost
defoliate from time to time...I suspect spider mites, but roses next to it
can be unaffected. It always bounces right back.

In our area, 7b, we usually have moderate winters, although this one has
been vicious. At least it has mostly stayed frozen, instead of the constant
freeze-thaw cycle that is a plant killer.

As nasty as this winter has been, I plan to wait until the end of the first
week in March to prune, unless the weather takes a definite turn for the
better. Last spring, I pruned at the end of February, and had blooms at the
end of March. But it was such a mild winter, that some of the little
reprobates simply refused to go completely dormant. Climbing New Dawn, for
example...never lost its leaves. And it's still got most of them now!

I need to get out there and dormant spray.


Scopata Fuori

On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 05:43:00 GMT, Cass
wrote:

Welcome, Scopata. It's nice to have someone from the Maryland shore in
the group. It's hard to find info online about your area, and there are
a fair number of questions here, usually along the lines of, "Should I
prune my roses now [in October]" and "how do I winter protect."
-=-
Cass
Zone 9 San Francisco Bay Area
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein/index.html



Scopata Fuori wrote:

Hi!

I'm new to this group, and have been growing roses for seven years. Let me
backtrack he I killed everything I planted the first three years, and
then started choosing my planting areas more carefully, and started with
better quality specimens, and now I am up to well over a hundred. Probably
closer to 200, but I don't count miniatures, freebies, unplanted ones, etc.


I have seen Blue Girl mentioned here. I bought that about three years ago
from the old Michigan Bulb Company (before I knew better), and it was a
rotty looking stick, as were the others they sent me. Only two of the seven
I purchased then are alive today, including Blue Girl.

She has some pretty blooms, but it is not as vigorous nor as prolific as the
Stainless Steel, another "mauve" rose, planted right beside her for
comparison. The color and form are fairly similar, that I would not hesitate
to recommend Stainless Steel to anyone considering Blue Girl, at least in
this area, the Eastern Shore of Maryland. The amount of blooms SS gives, and
the form, are tremendous. It's a healthy, vigorous plant, but it does almost
defoliate from time to time...I suspect spider mites, but roses next to it
can be unaffected. It always bounces right back.

In our area, 7b, we usually have moderate winters, although this one has
been vicious. At least it has mostly stayed frozen, instead of the constant
freeze-thaw cycle that is a plant killer.

As nasty as this winter has been, I plan to wait until the end of the first
week in March to prune, unless the weather takes a definite turn for the
better. Last spring, I pruned at the end of February, and had blooms at the
end of March. But it was such a mild winter, that some of the little
reprobates simply refused to go completely dormant. Climbing New Dawn, for
example...never lost its leaves. And it's still got most of them now!

I need to get out there and dormant spray.

Is it not too late to use dormant spray there in Zone 7b? Here in 6b,
I'm already seeing not only swelling of buds, but actual growth in
some cases (slight but still present). I wanted to do the dormant
spray thing, but now I'm worried that I might be too late. Heck, it's
only a week after the nighttime temps hit 0 degrees F. It's been in
the 50s the last few days. I'm sure that we're in for some more
sub-freezing daytime temps and will almost certainly get a couple of
nighttime freezes as late as the first week of April.

So, it's a quandry. Any advice from you (or others) would be well
received. Maybe if it's too late for the canes, I should at least
spray the ground?

Scopata Fuori commented:

As nasty as this winter has been, I plan to wait until the end of the first
week in March to prune,

This is a wise move, you don't want to prune too early. Pruning
stimulates new growth, and pruning too early leads to the plants being
vulnerable to big damage in a late frost.

I need to get out there and dormant spray.

You DO NOT need to use dormant spray in Zones 7 or 6. It is
completely unnecessary!

Artificial dormancy is ONLY needed in areas where the rose does not
stop blooming on its own. Zones 9 10 and 11. Places like South
Florida or Southern California or South Texas or Hawaii.

Just because the rose hasn't lost all of its leaves is NO reason to
defoliate. It just isn't necessary at all. It is a big waste of time
and money. The rose will know what to do with its own leaves..... no
problem. It will keep them if they are good and it will drop them if
they are bad.

Period.

There. I've saved you some time and money..... grin

Bob Bauer
Zone 6 in Salt Lake City
http://www.rose-roses.com

"Bob Bauer" wrote in message
...

I need to get out there and dormant spray.

You DO NOT need to use dormant spray in Zones 7 or 6. It is
completely unnecessary!

Artificial dormancy is ONLY needed in areas where the rose does not
stop blooming on its own. Zones 9 10 and 11. Places like South
Florida or Southern California or South Texas or Hawaii.

I was under the impression that dormant spray was used while
the plant was dormant in order to smother pests (thinking
of apple trees). Am I way off, or am I thinking of something
similarly named?

Laura

On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:23:25 GMT, "R & L Porter"
wrote:


"Bob Bauer" wrote in message
.. .

I need to get out there and dormant spray.

You DO NOT need to use dormant spray in Zones 7 or 6. It is
completely unnecessary!

Artificial dormancy is ONLY needed in areas where the rose does not
stop blooming on its own. Zones 9 10 and 11. Places like South
Florida or Southern California or South Texas or Hawaii.

I was under the impression that dormant spray was used while
the plant was dormant in order to smother pests (thinking
of apple trees). Am I way off, or am I thinking of something
similarly named?

I was also thinking that for those of us in blackspot country, this
was a way to stave off the effects of overwintering spores.

A couple of experts in this area swear by it and say that their
implementation of dormant spraying has reduced or eliminated the
threat.

R & L Porter wrote:

I was under the impression that dormant spray was used while
the plant was dormant in order to smother pests (thinking
of apple trees). Am I way off, or am I thinking of something
similarly named?

I can see that most people are thinking the same as you, that 'dormant
oil' as being the spraying of a dilute oil mixture fungicide during
the dormant rose period. In this case you are absolutely correct.

Spraying your roses in order to force them to go dormant and spraying
them in the winter in order to prevent fungal disease and insects are
two different things.

The most common treatment for winter spraying for fungus and insects
is 'lime sulpher' which can be sprayed with a dilute horticultural
oil in order to keep it adhering to the stems and leaves of the plant.
This is commonly referred to as 'dormant oil', but is not necessarily
a plant defoliant although it can be.

There are several other winter treatments for fungus that don't
necessarily defoliate (create dormancy) in the plant. Here are a few
mo Copper Sulphate, Triforine, Chlorothalonil, Propiconazole,
Captan and Methyl Thiophanate.

Don't forget that most of these fungal spores are overwintering in the
fallen leaves and soil in the ground around the plant. So if you
spray, you must also spray the ground around the plant.

Some people do like to remove all of the leaves of their infected
plants in order to help with fungal control it is true. And if most
of the leaves and stems are infected this might help a lot. If the
plant is otherwise OK though, it is not necessary.

Realize also though that some people in some climates actually need to
produce an artificial dormancy period in order for their roses to
bloom well the next year. This is also called dormant spraying and
was what I mistakenly though was meant.

Sorry about the mixup.....

Bob Bauer

Dave said:

I was also thinking that for those of us in blackspot country, this
was a way to stave off the effects of overwintering spores.

A couple of experts in this area swear by it and say that their
implementation of dormant spraying has reduced or eliminated the
threat.

You are absolutely correct. I mistakenly assumed that what was being
referred to was 'defoliating for dormancy' not 'spraying for fungus
during the dormant period' which is what was probably meant.

Sorry for the mix up.

Bob Bauer

Yes, I was referring to the application of an oil based spray, likely with a
sulphur additive, that will help smother spores, grubs, and larvae. Last
winter, the majority of the little reprobates wouldn't go dormant. I had a
couple of blooms on Paradise (a Walmart rescue!) on Christmas Day.
Unbelievable. This winter, though, has been another story entirely.

When should I spread bt, or milky spore? Is early spring too late?


Scopata

In article , Bob Bauer
wrote:

R & L Porter wrote:

I was under the impression that dormant spray was used while
the plant was dormant in order to smother pests (thinking
of apple trees). Am I way off, or am I thinking of something
similarly named?

I can see that most people are thinking the same as you, that 'dormant
oil' as being the spraying of a dilute oil mixture fungicide during
the dormant rose period. In this case you are absolutely correct.

Spraying your roses in order to force them to go dormant and spraying
them in the winter in order to prevent fungal disease and insects are
two different things.

Or, they are the same thing. You can get both effects, Bob.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 05:30:56 GMT, Cass
wrote:

Spraying your roses in order to force them to go dormant and spraying
them in the winter in order to prevent fungal disease and insects are
two different things.

Or, they are the same thing. You can get both effects, Bob.

They can be the same thing, but they don't have to be the same thing.

That's all I'm saying.

Bob

"Bob Bauer" wrote in message
...
R & L Porter wrote:

I was under the impression that dormant spray was used while
the plant was dormant in order to smother pests (thinking
of apple trees). Am I way off, or am I thinking of something
similarly named?

I can see that most people are thinking the same as you, that 'dormant
oil' as being the spraying of a dilute oil mixture fungicide during
the dormant rose period. In this case you are absolutely correct.

A rare, but sweet moment.

Spraying your roses in order to force them to go dormant and spraying
them in the winter in order to prevent fungal disease and insects are
two different things.

Aha.

snip
Don't forget that most of these fungal spores are overwintering in the
fallen leaves and soil in the ground around the plant. So if you
spray, you must also spray the ground around the plant.

I had thought of that. So I guess this will have to wait until late
March, early April, once most of the snow is gone. (wishful
thinking -- the late March part)

snip.

Realize also though that some people in some climates actually need to
produce an artificial dormancy period in order for their roses to
bloom well the next year. This is also called dormant spraying and
was what I mistakenly though was meant.

Sorry about the mixup.....

Not a problem. I sometimes forget that there are places on the planet
that do not get winter. Or at least what I would call 'winter'. Those
poor deprived souls.

Laura -- mid-winter madness is in full swing. All I can think of are
flowers,
dirt, green grass, dirt, and flowers.