I just returned from a work trip to central Florida. On the way home,
I stopped by several nurseries and garden centers searching for roses
from Nelson's, which uses Fortuniana root stock.

One place I visited had J&P roses that were identified as Fortuniana
root stock in addition to the ones from Nelson's. I was curious,
since I had never seen or heard that J&P used Fortuniana before. The
manager explained that the J&P roses distributed in Florida came from
a Florida based grower / supplier.

I was still a little skeptical, but the roses had J&P tags that
specifically advertised the Fortuniana root stock. So, I picked up a
Flirtatious and a Fragrant Cloud from J&P in addition to a Perfect
Moment and a St. Patrick from Nelson's.

And then I arrived back in Atlanta just before midnight last night -
just in time to enjoy the sub-freezing temperature while still dressed
for the hot afternoon in Florida. Yikes - I thought it was supposed
to be spring now ! Where did this come from???

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:41:46 GMT, torgo
wrote:

And then I arrived back in Atlanta just before midnight last night -
just in time to enjoy the sub-freezing temperature while still dressed
for the hot afternoon in Florida. Yikes - I thought it was supposed
to be spring now ! Where did this come from???

I don't know about Atlanta, but just north of you here in Nashville,
it happens every year. It's almost like clockwork (at least this one
has been). We have probably one more freeze ahead of us, probably next
week or so. Seems like the last one is almost always falls the last
day or two of March until about the 5th of April.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:08:42 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

Seems like the last one is almost always falls the last
day or two of March until about the 5th of April.

What I meant was that the frost falls *between* those days, not
lasting the entire range of the dates.

Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.

Fortuniana is a popular root stock for the south east since it performs well
in the local soils.

J&P does not produce all of the roses that bear their name tag, it is very
likely that there is a 'contract grower' in Floridia using fortuniania for
sales & distribution in the south east.

The J&P roses grown in the north west are most always on Dr. Huey and
occasionaly multiflora.

J&P has recently been promoting 'own root' roses, these are usually
varieites that will root easily and produce sellable plants in the same time
frame of grafted plants.

Keep in mind that grafting us usually a production technique to get the
greatest result in the shortest time.

Tim.

"torgo" wrote in message
...
I just returned from a work trip to central Florida. On the way home,
I stopped by several nurseries and garden centers searching for roses
from Nelson's, which uses Fortuniana root stock.

One place I visited had J&P roses that were identified as Fortuniana
root stock in addition to the ones from Nelson's. I was curious,
since I had never seen or heard that J&P used Fortuniana before. The
manager explained that the J&P roses distributed in Florida came from
a Florida based grower / supplier.

I was still a little skeptical, but the roses had J&P tags that
specifically advertised the Fortuniana root stock. So, I picked up a
Flirtatious and a Fragrant Cloud from J&P in addition to a Perfect
Moment and a St. Patrick from Nelson's.

And then I arrived back in Atlanta just before midnight last night -
just in time to enjoy the sub-freezing temperature while still dressed
for the hot afternoon in Florida. Yikes - I thought it was supposed
to be spring now ! Where did this come from???

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick

"Tim Tompkins" wrote in message
...
Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.


Yes, and 99% of all commercial rose growers are concentrated in the desert
southwest and grow on Dr. Huey, which is NOT the best rootstock for FL or
even the acid and cold soil conditions of the East.


Fortuniana is a popular root stock for the south east since it performs
well
in the local soils.

J&P does not produce all of the roses that bear their name tag, it is very
likely that there is a 'contract grower' in Floridia using fortuniania for
sales & distribution in the south east.

Calvin Smith in Georgia is a contract grower for some J&P stock. Nelson's
in FL used to grow for J&P, but I think they've discontinued that and grow
only for themselves.

The J&P roses grown in the north west are most always on Dr. Huey and
occasionaly multiflora.

There are NO J&P roses available on multiflora. Zero. If you want
multiflora, you'd have to order from a Canadian nursery, Steve Singer in
Wisconsin, or Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown. Those are the ONLY folks producing
roses on multiflora since Edmunds quit growing their own.


J&P has recently been promoting 'own root' roses, these are usually
varieites that will root easily and produce sellable plants in the same
time
frame of grafted plants.

Keep in mind that grafting us usually a production technique to get the
greatest result in the shortest time.

Yes, it's a matter of economics. But, some varieties are pitiful grown
ownroot and need the vigor of a robust rootstock in order to perform. Heck,
even mini's grafted to fortuniana can becoem 5' monster roses, so imagine
what it does for a some of your weaker plants.

Sunflower
MS7b

That is 'the question'.

If you can find out who the wholesale grower is and where their fields are
you can make an educated quess as to the root stock.

SOME growers specify the root stock used, most don't.

As always, they are a business, they make business decisions, not
necessiarly in the best interest of the customer.

You can sometimes find information about the grower on the web and in the
Combined Rose List. If all else fails, contact them and ask.

Tim

"Dick Zielinski" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick

"Tim Tompkins" wrote in message
...
Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.


Yes, and 99% of all commercial rose growers are concentrated in the desert
southwest and grow on Dr. Huey, which is NOT the best rootstock for FL or
even the acid and cold soil conditions of the East.


Fortuniana is a popular root stock for the south east since it performs
well
in the local soils.

J&P does not produce all of the roses that bear their name tag, it is very
likely that there is a 'contract grower' in Floridia using fortuniania for
sales & distribution in the south east.

Calvin Smith in Georgia is a contract grower for some J&P stock. Nelson's
in FL used to grow for J&P, but I think they've discontinued that and grow
only for themselves.

The J&P roses grown in the north west are most always on Dr. Huey and
occasionaly multiflora.

There are NO J&P roses available on multiflora. Zero. If you want
multiflora, you'd have to order from a Canadian nursery, Steve Singer in
Wisconsin, or Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown. Those are the ONLY folks producing
roses on multiflora since Edmunds quit growing their own.


J&P has recently been promoting 'own root' roses, these are usually
varieites that will root easily and produce sellable plants in the same
time
frame of grafted plants.

Keep in mind that grafting us usually a production technique to get the
greatest result in the shortest time.

Yes, it's a matter of economics. But, some varieties are pitiful grown
ownroot and need the vigor of a robust rootstock in order to perform. Heck,
even mini's grafted to fortuniana can becoem 5' monster roses, so imagine
what it does for a some of your weaker plants.

Sunflower
MS7b

"Tim Tompkins" wrote in message
...
Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.


Yes, and 99% of all commercial rose growers are concentrated in the desert
southwest and grow on Dr. Huey, which is NOT the best rootstock for FL or
even the acid and cold soil conditions of the East.


Fortuniana is a popular root stock for the south east since it performs
well
in the local soils.

J&P does not produce all of the roses that bear their name tag, it is very
likely that there is a 'contract grower' in Floridia using fortuniania for
sales & distribution in the south east.

Calvin Smith in Georgia is a contract grower for some J&P stock. Nelson's
in FL used to grow for J&P, but I think they've discontinued that and grow
only for themselves.

The J&P roses grown in the north west are most always on Dr. Huey and
occasionaly multiflora.

There are NO J&P roses available on multiflora. Zero. If you want
multiflora, you'd have to order from a Canadian nursery, Steve Singer in
Wisconsin, or Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown. Those are the ONLY folks producing
roses on multiflora since Edmunds quit growing their own.


J&P has recently been promoting 'own root' roses, these are usually
varieites that will root easily and produce sellable plants in the same
time
frame of grafted plants.

Keep in mind that grafting us usually a production technique to get the
greatest result in the shortest time.

Yes, it's a matter of economics. But, some varieties are pitiful grown
ownroot and need the vigor of a robust rootstock in order to perform. Heck,
even mini's grafted to fortuniana can becoem 5' monster roses, so imagine
what it does for a some of your weaker plants.

Sunflower
MS7b

"Tim Tompkins" wrote in message
...
Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.


Yes, and 99% of all commercial rose growers are concentrated in the desert
southwest and grow on Dr. Huey, which is NOT the best rootstock for FL or
even the acid and cold soil conditions of the East.


Fortuniana is a popular root stock for the south east since it performs
well
in the local soils.

J&P does not produce all of the roses that bear their name tag, it is very
likely that there is a 'contract grower' in Floridia using fortuniania for
sales & distribution in the south east.

Calvin Smith in Georgia is a contract grower for some J&P stock. Nelson's
in FL used to grow for J&P, but I think they've discontinued that and grow
only for themselves.

The J&P roses grown in the north west are most always on Dr. Huey and
occasionaly multiflora.

There are NO J&P roses available on multiflora. Zero. If you want
multiflora, you'd have to order from a Canadian nursery, Steve Singer in
Wisconsin, or Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown. Those are the ONLY folks producing
roses on multiflora since Edmunds quit growing their own.


J&P has recently been promoting 'own root' roses, these are usually
varieites that will root easily and produce sellable plants in the same
time
frame of grafted plants.

Keep in mind that grafting us usually a production technique to get the
greatest result in the shortest time.

Yes, it's a matter of economics. But, some varieties are pitiful grown
ownroot and need the vigor of a robust rootstock in order to perform. Heck,
even mini's grafted to fortuniana can becoem 5' monster roses, so imagine
what it does for a some of your weaker plants.

Sunflower
MS7b

"Dick Zielinski" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick


If you buy a grafted rose, it's 99.9% sure to be grafted onto Dr. Huey.
They only Fortuniana roses available would be in Florida, and they should be
clearly marked, because they are significantly more expensive than Huey
plants. They are also visibly different in structure, most notably, the root
system, which is broad and fibrous as opposed to the long and woody system
of Huey. Huey is especially suited to the alkaline and dry conditions of the
West. It's acceptible for Eastern acidic soils, but it's not ideal.
Multiflora is the best rootstock for most of the Eastern half of the
country, but there just aren't any commercial rose growers in this part of
the country to produce roses using multiflora. If you want multiflora,
you'll have to order from Pickering's or (horrors) Hortico in Canada, or
from Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown. Ashdown is a small operation and doesn't
carry a lot of roses, so you have to get your order in early if you want
something specific.

If in doubt, assume it's Dr. Huey. That's the main one the mass
distributors use. If you're buying from a small independent grower,
just ask. They might even be able to use/order multiple root stocks
or do own-root upon request.

Dr. Huey does acceptably well in most parts of the country, which
makes it the primary choice for Weeks, J&P, etc. Fortuniana does
exceptionally well in very hot climates, which is why the Florida
growers use it.

If you prefer Multiflora, check out Ashdown Roses. If you need
Fortuniana, thus far Muncy's is the only place I know that does mail
order. (Nelson's is planning on adding internet orders soon.) For
own root, check out Sequoia, Roses Unlimited, Ashdown, etc (too many
other small growers to name them all.)

And if Dr. Huey is right for your location, congratulations! They're
everywhere, and they're cheaper than Fortuniana. Try Wayside Gardens,
S&W Greenhouse, or even your local Wal-Mart.




On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:33:38 GMT, Dick Zielinski
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick

If in doubt, assume it's Dr. Huey. That's the main one the mass
distributors use. If you're buying from a small independent grower,
just ask. They might even be able to use/order multiple root stocks
or do own-root upon request.

Dr. Huey does acceptably well in most parts of the country, which
makes it the primary choice for Weeks, J&P, etc. Fortuniana does
exceptionally well in very hot climates, which is why the Florida
growers use it.

If you prefer Multiflora, check out Ashdown Roses. If you need
Fortuniana, thus far Muncy's is the only place I know that does mail
order. (Nelson's is planning on adding internet orders soon.) For
own root, check out Sequoia, Roses Unlimited, Ashdown, etc (too many
other small growers to name them all.)

And if Dr. Huey is right for your location, congratulations! They're
everywhere, and they're cheaper than Fortuniana. Try Wayside Gardens,
S&W Greenhouse, or even your local Wal-Mart.




On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:33:38 GMT, Dick Zielinski
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick

If in doubt, assume it's Dr. Huey. That's the main one the mass
distributors use. If you're buying from a small independent grower,
just ask. They might even be able to use/order multiple root stocks
or do own-root upon request.

Dr. Huey does acceptably well in most parts of the country, which
makes it the primary choice for Weeks, J&P, etc. Fortuniana does
exceptionally well in very hot climates, which is why the Florida
growers use it.

If you prefer Multiflora, check out Ashdown Roses. If you need
Fortuniana, thus far Muncy's is the only place I know that does mail
order. (Nelson's is planning on adding internet orders soon.) For
own root, check out Sequoia, Roses Unlimited, Ashdown, etc (too many
other small growers to name them all.)

And if Dr. Huey is right for your location, congratulations! They're
everywhere, and they're cheaper than Fortuniana. Try Wayside Gardens,
S&W Greenhouse, or even your local Wal-Mart.




On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:33:38 GMT, Dick Zielinski
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:20:03 -0700, "Tim Tompkins"
wrote:



Growers usually choose their root stock based upon the soil conditions in
their area.
snip

Ok, that sounds like a real plus. But how can I know what soil
condition a particular rose or rootstock is intended for. And how does
one know what rootstock is being used... unlike fruit trees,I've never
seen it listed.

Dick