The rule of thumb for full dormancy is at least 96 hours below 22F.

In your climate I would think that it is best to wait until spring to do ANY
grooming/pruning.

Tim

"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.83a57d452395633904f1f646c6884bed @1099763316.nulluser.com...
I am in Raleigh, NC. This past summer and fall have been really
busy around here so the roses have really been neglected.
We got lots of rain, and I applied abundant organic material
(leaf mold, hardwood mulch and Mills Mix)plus a time-release
fertilizer last spring, so they have at least had lots of food and water.

However, I have not sprayed since June 22, though I had sprayed
(for fungus and a systemic for chewing and sucking insects)
every ten days from April 15 through June 22. They did not
defoliate, but do show signs of blackspot now. (No canker,
though, thank goodness.)

While I still have some gorgeous blooms, things are
winding down and I expect the roses to go dormant
some time in December-January. There are lots of fallen
oak, maple, sycamore, and dogwood leaves all over
everything at the moment, and the roses, mostly
hybrid teas, floribundas and austins, are gangly
and a mess.

I want to start to clean in the spring. I plan
to begin removing both the fall leaves and the
fallen rose leaves his month. Due to the presence
of blackspot I will discard both and not shred them
for mulch this year.

My question: Should I winter prune, since I have
not so much as deadheaded any of them since July 1?
"Putting them to bed" in the winter full of blackspot
has in the past meant a devastating crop of canker
in the spring.

How can I make sure they are dormant? Some of them are
fairly young and we do have snap hard freezes, so I
do not want to prune while they are not dormant
and risk getting the "sap" up in them and having them
die in a freeze.

How cold does it have to be and for how long before
I can be sure they are dormant? How far can I cut safely
cut them back? I am talking about the fl, ht, and shrub
roses. My out-of-control climbers are another story.
TIA for any advice from those who live in similar
climates--or at least have winter weather.

The rule of thumb for full dormancy is at least 96 hours below 22F.

In your climate I would think that it is best to wait until spring to do ANY
grooming/pruning.

Tim

"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.83a57d452395633904f1f646c6884bed @1099763316.nulluser.com...
I am in Raleigh, NC. This past summer and fall have been really
busy around here so the roses have really been neglected.
We got lots of rain, and I applied abundant organic material
(leaf mold, hardwood mulch and Mills Mix)plus a time-release
fertilizer last spring, so they have at least had lots of food and water.

However, I have not sprayed since June 22, though I had sprayed
(for fungus and a systemic for chewing and sucking insects)
every ten days from April 15 through June 22. They did not
defoliate, but do show signs of blackspot now. (No canker,
though, thank goodness.)

While I still have some gorgeous blooms, things are
winding down and I expect the roses to go dormant
some time in December-January. There are lots of fallen
oak, maple, sycamore, and dogwood leaves all over
everything at the moment, and the roses, mostly
hybrid teas, floribundas and austins, are gangly
and a mess.

I want to start to clean in the spring. I plan
to begin removing both the fall leaves and the
fallen rose leaves his month. Due to the presence
of blackspot I will discard both and not shred them
for mulch this year.

My question: Should I winter prune, since I have
not so much as deadheaded any of them since July 1?
"Putting them to bed" in the winter full of blackspot
has in the past meant a devastating crop of canker
in the spring.

How can I make sure they are dormant? Some of them are
fairly young and we do have snap hard freezes, so I
do not want to prune while they are not dormant
and risk getting the "sap" up in them and having them
die in a freeze.

How cold does it have to be and for how long before
I can be sure they are dormant? How far can I cut safely
cut them back? I am talking about the fl, ht, and shrub
roses. My out-of-control climbers are another story.
TIA for any advice from those who live in similar
climates--or at least have winter weather.

Tim Tompkins wrote:

The rule of thumb for full dormancy is at least 96 hours below 22F.

I think that it must depend on the variety because dormancy
varies widely here in zone4a. By some miracle, we have not had
anything near 96 hours of below 22F, some roses are dormant and
some are as green as they were in June. The more hardy roses go
dormant first.

All the Rugosas are completly bare of leaves. The Canada Mordens
and Explorers are almost bare and some of the Bucks are turning
yellow and dropping some leaves. Most of the modern HTs and
Floribundas are still green as they can be.

I hate to put on the winter cover on the modern roses before they
are dormant, but I don't have a choice. It was a record 70F last
week and the forcast is for zero or worse soon. Normal is 40F
high and high teens and early 20's for lows.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Shiva wrote:

Meanwhile ... Mutabilis is still blooming! Great rose, it really is. It
might be too tender for your zone though, Charles.

Yes, we have no Mutabilis-anywhere near here. I read of some in
Canada experimenting with high tech winter protection, such as
sheds built of foam slabs and tents of insulating fabric that
gives them a chance with the tender roses. However, I am not
that much of a fanatic despite what my wife thinks.

Good luck with the voles. They are terible creatures when they
attack roses.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **