writes

We need to know more about the consequences of hybridization of crop species
with related weeds and the potential for introgression in both directions.
Jointed goatgrass hybridizes with common wheat and viable backcross offspring
can be produced. Have resistance genes from wheat moved into jointed goatgrass
and changed its survival potential? A similar question can be asked for sorghum
and shattercane, sunflower and wild sunflower, canola and mustards, or maize
and teosinte.

You are new here.

I have, since before GM cropping was available, pointed out that
whilst RR genes will have no effect on wild populations whilst
insecticidal genes may do and should be treated with HUGE caution.

Which is why I am for RR cultivars and in many cases against
insecticidal introductions.

However maize in europe has no species to x-breed with, so it's not
an issue. I have yet to see any data on leguminous crops, where
insect resistance would be advantageous. Brassicae family are
profligate switchers of genes.

I don;t know if we have goatgrass in europe, it doesn't feature in
the bad weed tables, anyway.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

But there need to be much better plans to keep this kind of thing from being
able to happen.

The only possible solution which will work is to forbid the growing of
pharmaceutical plants completely. Any other approach is guaranteed to
lead to contamination of the food supply, as with StarLink and
Prodigene...

regards
Marcus

Marcus Williamson wrote in message
...

But there need to be much better plans to keep this kind of thing
from being
able to happen.

The only possible solution which will work is to forbid the growing of
pharmaceutical plants completely. Any other approach is guaranteed to
lead to contamination of the food supply, as with StarLink and
Prodigene...


following the logic of this it would be wise to ban the prescription of
antibiotics to people who were allowed to remain in the community where
they might forget to finish a course. The increase in TB shows how big a
risk that is.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

regards
Marcus

Marcus Williamson writes

RR genes will have no effect on wild populations

But they do. They lead to herbicide-resistant weeds...

So what? That confers no advantage outside the field.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Oz wrote in message
...
Marcus Williamson writes

RR genes will have no effect on wild populations

But they do. They lead to herbicide-resistant weeds...

So what? That confers no advantage outside the field.

herbicide resistance is an irrelevance really. Indeed one would have
thought that those campaigning on the issue would be glad to see a lot
of herbicides scrapped. Unfortunately they have taken a stand on all GM
is wrong.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be
accepted.

Oz wrote:
...
However maize in europe has no species to x-breed with, so it's not
an issue.

They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.


I have yet to see any data on leguminous crops, where
insect resistance would be advantageous. Brassicae family are
profligate switchers of genes.

I don;t know if we have goatgrass in europe, it doesn't feature in
the bad weed tables, anyway.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

writes


Oz wrote:
...
However maize in europe has no species to x-breed with, so it's not
an issue.

They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

You may not have noticed, but there is something called 'the atlantic'
between europe and mexico whilst there is nothing but a bit of barbed
wire between the US and mexico.

Further GM corn was being grown in mexico, so little need to 'travel
across continents'. IIRC in the quoted work it merely had to travel a
few tens of km.

What it does show, though, is that genes from modern cultivars of maize
will affect 'legacy' maize, and presumably has been doing so for many
decades.

Teosinte, of course, is known to have been x-breeding with maize for
several millennia. It hasn't changed much though, nor have the
brassicae-rape hybrids, they still look just the same.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

wrote in message
...


Oz wrote:
...
However maize in europe has no species to x-breed with, so it's not
an issue.

They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

just check your map, there didn't use to be a continental land bridge
between Europe and South America


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
..

Oz wrote:

writes
....
They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

You may not have noticed, but there is something called 'the atlantic'
between europe and mexico whilst there is nothing but a bit of barbed
wire between the US and mexico.


Corn can travel in ships across the Atlantic, the Pacific or the Indian Ocean.


Further GM corn was being grown in mexico, so little need to 'travel

This corn was exported legally from the USA to Mexico. Was supposed to
be milled but ended up in mexican markets.


across continents'. IIRC in the quoted work it merely had to travel a
few tens of km.

What it does show, though, is that genes from modern cultivars of maize
will affect 'legacy' maize, and presumably has been doing so for many
decades.


Any pig virus genes found naturally in teocinte?


Teosinte, of course, is known to have been x-breeding with maize for
several millennia. It hasn't changed much though, nor have the
brassicae-rape hybrids, they still look just the same.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Jim Webster wrote:

wrote in message
They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

just check your map, there didn't use to be a continental land bridge
between Europe and South America


Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
.

writes


Oz wrote:

writes
...
They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

You may not have noticed, but there is something called 'the atlantic'
between europe and mexico whilst there is nothing but a bit of barbed
wire between the US and mexico.


Corn can travel in ships across the Atlantic, the Pacific or the Indian Ocean.

1) Not seed corn. That would be restricted.
2) Please inform me of the last time europe shipped maize to the
americas?


Further GM corn was being grown in mexico, so little need to 'travel

This corn was exported legally from the USA to Mexico. Was supposed to
be milled but ended up in mexican markets.

The scientific american article said it was commercial seed from some
distance away (about 10km IIRC).

across continents'. IIRC in the quoted work it merely had to travel a
few tens of km.

What it does show, though, is that genes from modern cultivars of maize
will affect 'legacy' maize, and presumably has been doing so for many
decades.


Any pig virus genes found naturally in teocinte?

Any pig virus genes in commercial cultivars?
Would teosinte care? Probably not.
It's been dealing with new genes for millennia.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Oz wrote:

writes


Oz wrote:

writes
...
They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

You may not have noticed, but there is something called 'the atlantic'
between europe and mexico whilst there is nothing but a bit of barbed
wire between the US and mexico.


Corn can travel in ships across the Atlantic, the Pacific or the Indian Ocean.

1) Not seed corn. That would be restricted.
2) Please inform me of the last time europe shipped maize to the
americas?


milling is done wherever is cheaper or convenient.
I am not connected to the cargo databases to know when was the last time
that europe shipped maize anywhere. But if europe had a load of rotten
maize somewhere in europe, I bet it ended up somewhere in the third world.




Further GM corn was being grown in mexico, so little need to 'travel

This corn was exported legally from the USA to Mexico. Was supposed to
be milled but ended up in mexican markets.

The scientific american article said it was commercial seed from some
distance away (about 10km IIRC).

across continents'. IIRC in the quoted work it merely had to travel a
few tens of km.

What it does show, though, is that genes from modern cultivars of maize
will affect 'legacy' maize, and presumably has been doing so for many
decades.


Any pig virus genes found naturally in teocinte?

Any pig virus genes in commercial cultivars?
Would teosinte care? Probably not.

Would the mexican farmers care? Probably yes.
What about jews and muslim people? would they care if there are pig genes
in their bread? would you care if grampa's genes where in your pigs?
Have we been dealing with this problems before?

It's been dealing with new genes for millennia.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

writes


Oz wrote:

writes

Corn can travel in ships across the Atlantic, the Pacific or the Indian
Ocean.

1) Not seed corn. That would be restricted.
2) Please inform me of the last time europe shipped maize to the
americas?

milling is done wherever is cheaper or convenient.

Indeed.

I am not connected to the cargo databases to know when was the last time
that europe shipped maize anywhere. But if europe had a load of rotten
maize somewhere in europe, I bet it ended up somewhere in the third world.

Just take a peek at maize prices and exports from the EC.
It doesn't happen.

Any pig virus genes in commercial cultivars?
Would teosinte care? Probably not.

Would the mexican farmers care? Probably yes.

Probably not. They don't farm teosinte.

What about jews and muslim people? would they care if there are pig genes
in their bread?

You said a pig virus. That's not pig.
In any case probably 95%+ of human genes are pig genes anyway.
They would have to define which genes made a pig a pig and which didn't.
In any case, theologically speaking, it's very arguable if pig genes in
maize makes that maize into a pig. Doubtless there are already genes in
maize that are found in pigs already.

would you care if grampa's genes where in your pigs?

No. Why should I?
I wouldn't care if some of my genes were in a pig.
We share lots of genes with pigs anyway.

Have we been dealing with this problems before?

Probably.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Oz wrote in message
...
writes


would you care if grampa's genes where in your pigs?

No. Why should I?
I wouldn't care if some of my genes were in a pig.
We share lots of genes with pigs anyway.

latest figures was we are 300 genes different from mice, which isn't a
lot in 30,000+ genes.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

wrote in message
...


Jim Webster wrote:

wrote in message
They thought the same in USA. The GM corn ended up in México.
Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.

just check your map, there didn't use to be a continental land
bridge
between Europe and South America


Corn can travel across continents, and does so regularly.
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

as has been pointed out to you, there is no land bridge so it cannot
travel across a continent, and there is also no trade in maize out of
Europe.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'




--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
.