wrote in message
...



In the case of animal transplantation into humans, a few pigs are
multiplied in an industrial setting to suit thousands of patients.
The risks grow exponentially.

actually you have got that entirely the opposite way round. With human
transplants the doner wanders in off the street. The pig will be reared
in strict low disease environment.


Xenotransplantation of live tissue is clearly a high risk area
which needs
careful consideration. Some eminent virologists remain to be
convinced of its
safety. Robin Weiss of the Institute of Cancer Research, London,
issues a note
of caution when he states that "the ethical and technical problems
of
maintaining vigilance over Xenotransplantation should not be
underestimated."
...

Of course the same applies to human-human transplantation but more
so.
It IS being carried out, isn't it?

Don;t even THINK about 100 years of blood transfusions ....

If it had been possible to produce human blood in pigs, say 20 years
ago, think about the additional damage that a then unknown HIV virus
would have caused to humanity.

no more than human blood has done

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'




--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be
accepted.

wrote in message
...


Jim Webster wrote:

wrote in message
...


Jim Webster wrote:
...
exactly, I think priests should be banned from making decisions
on
plant
science.


Leave those decisions to the CEO's of Monsanto, IDM and Cargil?

If you insist, but I wouldn't advise it.

I'd let these matters be decided by self appointed experts on the
usenet


And that would be you?

I never appointed myself to anything
--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'




--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Jim Webster wrote:

wrote in message
...



In the case of animal transplantation into humans, a few pigs are
multiplied in an industrial setting to suit thousands of patients.
The risks grow exponentially.

actually you have got that entirely the opposite way round. With human
transplants the doner wanders in off the street. The pig will be reared
in strict low disease environment.

The pig gets chopped and the liver goes into a wandering human
the hart to another human, kidneys to another, lungs to another...
then the wondering humans start taking immunosupresive drugs and
then start riding the buses and preparing food in restaurants.
A failure of the pigpen higene might infect the pigs with transmisible
diseases. Yep, all depends on a clean pig pen. jajajajaja ok maybe is not funny.

writes

The pig gets chopped and the liver goes into a wandering human
the hart to another human, kidneys to another, lungs to another...

Look, just like humans ...

then the wondering humans start taking immunosupresive drugs and
then start riding the buses and preparing food in restaurants.
A failure of the pigpen higene might infect the pigs with transmisible
diseases. Yep, all depends on a clean pig pen. jajajajaja ok maybe is not funny.

No problem. Just insist on your transplants from a human cadaver then.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

writes

Jim Webster wrote:

wrote in message
...

"the ethical and technical problems of
maintaining vigilance over Xenotransplantation should not be
underestimated."
...

the english translation of that is "so funding will have to increase"


My translation is : "don't be a fool, you are going to get burned, even
with the best vigilance"

Yeah, right, like the 20 million vCJD deaths ....

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

writes

An open question, like having a revolver with one bullet and while
playing russian roulette, asking the question: 'is this one going
to kill me? ' with the difference that you are playing with
other people's lifes and making money in the process.

Actually you are saving other people's lives and making money in the
process.

Since when did you work a 50hr week for no pay?

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

writes


Oz wrote:
...
Mind you, you should be a LOT more worried about transplants from
humans. These people have not been carefully bred, maintained in a
disease-free environment and regularly checked, but are known to carry a
host of human diseases.


The patient with the transplant is the only ones that suffers
or dies when transplanted with a sick human organ.
In the case of animal transplantation into humans, a few pigs are
multiplied in an industrial setting to suit thousands of patients.
The risks grow exponentially.

yawn Like they have more diseases than humans, not.

Don;t even THINK about 100 years of blood transfusions ....

If it had been possible to produce human blood in pigs, say 20 years
ago, think about the additional damage that a then unknown HIV virus
would have caused to humanity.

Which unknown hiv virus endemic in pigs is that?

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

wrote in message
...


The pig gets chopped and the liver goes into a wandering human
the hart to another human, kidneys to another, lungs to another...

all of whom are not now dead

your option for them is exactly what?
--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

On 12/15/02 12:51 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

The pig gets chopped and the liver goes into a wandering human
the hart to another human, kidneys to another, lungs to another...
then the wondering humans start taking immunosupresive drugs and
then start riding the buses and preparing food in restaurants.
A failure of the pigpen higene might infect the pigs with transmisible
diseases. Yep, all depends on a clean pig pen. jajajajaja ok maybe is not
funny.


Pigs are actually fairly clean animals if given the chance. Some
breeding stock producers have gone to SPF (strict pathogen free) systems.
Outsiders don't set foot in the buildings without permission. The animals
are checked regularly. A hog that leaves is never returned to the facility.
A mechanism is already in place to produce disease free hogs.
Standards can be improved if need be for human transplant production.
Maybe genetic engineering can produce a hog whose organs won't cause the
recipients' body to reject them. That would eliminate the need for drugs to
prevent organ rejection.

Dean






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Dean Hoffman writes

Pigs are actually fairly clean animals if given the chance.

Better would be very clean, that to include a nice mudbath.
Their toilet behaviour and areas so used is exemplary.

Some
breeding stock producers have gone to SPF (strict pathogen free) systems.

I think that's 'specific pathogen-free'. It's been going a long time, my
father in law set the first successful company up in the 60's - PIC.

Outsiders don't set foot in the buildings without permission.

Outsiders generally do not get permission. Complete change of clothes
between inside and outside and vets only allowed in first call of the
day (but still have to change). I've heard some require showers in
between.

The animals
are checked regularly. A hog that leaves is never returned to the facility.

Only checked semen is allowed in. No haulier is allowed in. Animals can
only pass one way, from clean to 'dirty'.

A mechanism is already in place to produce disease free hogs.

Specific disease free. Nucleus herds are produced via caesarian.

Standards can be improved if need be for human transplant production.
Maybe genetic engineering can produce a hog whose organs won't cause the
recipients' body to reject them. That would eliminate the need for drugs to
prevent organ rejection.

That is a current line of research. Of course you would need a wide
range of strains to match, quite closely, the immune systems of humans.
Mind you it might be possible, at some time in the future, to send off
your DNA and get a pig cloned for an exact match, assuming you needed a
heart, liver, whatever. Then (hopefully) little or even no immune
suppressants would be needed.

Might have to draw the line at testicles, mind....

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Gordon Couger wrote:

....
There is a speculation that a virus being replicated in the pigs cells could
jump to human cells and create a new disease. But we have been using the
valves from pigs hearts for years with no problems.


http://www.biotechanalytics.com/Topi..._main_text.htm
....
tissue transplantation is on a different scale from organ transplantation,
and so any virus or prion disease may be transferred in a greater dose in
a whole organ transplant.

Xenotransplantation of live tissue is clearly a high risk area which needs
careful consideration. Some eminent virologists remain to be convinced of its
safety. Robin Weiss of the Institute of Cancer Research, London, issues a note
of caution when he states that "the ethical and technical problems of
maintaining vigilance over Xenotransplantation should not be underestimated."
....

On 12/15/02 9:31 AM, in article , "Oz"
wrote:

Dean Hoffman writes


Standards can be improved if need be for human transplant production.
Maybe genetic engineering can produce a hog whose organs won't cause the
recipients' body to reject them. That would eliminate the need for drugs to
prevent organ rejection.

OZ responded:

That is a current line of research. Of course you would need a wide
range of strains to match, quite closely, the immune systems of humans.
Mind you it might be possible, at some time in the future, to send off
your DNA and get a pig cloned for an exact match, assuming you needed a
heart, liver, whatever. Then (hopefully) little or even no immune
suppressants would be needed.

Might have to draw the line at testicles, mind....

I suppose you want to wait for scientists to use Charlais bulls instead.
:-))))

Things must be moving right along on the genetic engineering.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993216

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=1426112002


Dean





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