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RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
Larry Caldwell writes
(Torsten Brinch) writes: On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell wrote: (Torsten Brinch) writes: Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the **** was that for? I figured you for a picky eater. The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards. OK. I think you are an idiot who is opposed to GM crops for religious reasons. Torsten was once quite lucid. I've noticed over the years that he has become bitter and twisted and prone to resorting to childish word games which he thinks makes him look smart. Trouble is that he has been shown to be wrong so often now that I suspect he has little confidence in himself. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:09:35 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-) Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in any case. LMAO...keep trying Torsten. Laugh away, you know I am right. Or otta. How much wheat do you actually grow? This year nothing, it is all maize. Dave Bummer about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens your case. Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly used word in ****ing common American. "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat" herbicide than Roundup. Thanks. Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is well tolerated up to a point. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:06:56 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote: (Torsten Brinch) writes: On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell wrote: (Torsten Brinch) writes: Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the **** was that for? I figured you for a picky eater. The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards. OK. I think you are an idiot who is opposed to GM crops for religious reasons. By all means let it all hang out. And? |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
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RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
Interesting. In the UK in arable areas canola is the easy one. A spray of dimfop to control cereals and some trifluralin to dampen down blw is all I use for nearly all fields (some sometimes need some dow shield for thistles). But cereals are a big problem, primarily due to resistant and tolerant blackgrass but increasingly to dimfop resistant wild oats. This is particularly acute in high organic fields (say 10%+). RR wheat would be quite nice were it not for the fact that I would expect the rapid emergence of RR-resistant blackgrass. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. Actually Oz, I see that obviously there are a few harder to kill grassy weeds in your part of the world. With this being the case, obviously there is a fit for the wheat technology. Our three primary ones are wild oats, yellow(green) foxtail, and quackgrass. As far as the canola goes, we've been fighting hard to kill broadleaves here for some time. Such weeds as round leaf mallow and cleavers have made Round-Up a (pardon the expression) godsend. Trifurallin is just not acceptable in a no-till situation, as you are moving too much dirt, and it would completely destroy the principle. The other two weeds that were very expensive to control in crop with conventional methods were Canada thistle and perennial sow thistle. Clopyralid(Lontrel) costs a pile of money to use, and the Round-Up gives excellent season long control of both. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:20:45 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote: (Torsten Brinch) writes: By all means let it all hang out. And? Talk about farming. Right, let us leave it there, your personal problems are not generally germane. So, how do YOU handle jointed goat grass? Oooh, a rare species, not for me to handle. I'd call in a botanist pronto. Wouldn't it be nice to just spray it once with Roundup and be done with the problem? Difficult to see your jointed goatgrass as much of a problem if it can be just sprayed once with Roundup to be done with. Now, OUR annual rye-grass, THAT'S a problem, it just keeps coming and coming, despite all the Roundup we throw on it, on average, 0.4 kg glyphosate/ha arable/year, most of that in the autumn. Of course Roundup -- rather than the usual grass herbicides -- could theoretically be useful for control in the spring on a winter RR wheat. However, rather mooting that option, Roundup is set to be restricted to autumn use, because it has been found to contaminate our groundwater. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
Dean Ronn ?@?.? writes
Actually Oz, I see that obviously there are a few harder to kill grassy weeds in your part of the world. Yes sigh With this being the case, obviously there is a fit for the wheat technology. Our three primary ones are wild oats, yellow(green) foxtail, and quackgrass. Wild oats are relatively easy, although dimfop resistant ones are increasing. Foxtail sounds horribly like a blackgrass replacement and quackgrass is probably what we call couch (I seem to remember it as an alternative UK name), which responds well to roundup. As far as the canola goes, we've been fighting hard to kill broadleaves here for some time. Such weeds as round leaf mallow and cleavers have made Round-Up a (pardon the expression) godsend. Round leaf mallow I haven't come across. Cleavers we control in the cereal part of the rotation but don't reduce yield much and we can cut them fine with our rape header, and then screen them out in the drier (mempries of 10T cleanings trailers full of cleaver seeds ...). Trifurallin is just not acceptable in a no-till situation, as you are moving too much dirt, and it would completely destroy the principle. Absolutely. The other two weeds that were very expensive to control in crop with conventional methods were Canada thistle and perennial sow thistle. Clopyralid(Lontrel) costs a pile of money to use, Clopyralid = dow shield. Indeed pricey (!) but I use half rate and rely on the canola to do the rest, applies when the rape is about 6" across (ie early). and the Round-Up gives excellent season long control of both. Yes. My most worrying rape weed is a wild cabbage/mustard, which is unsurprisingly unkillable and like rape germinates over a period of many years. However I would expect it to become RR-resistant almost immediately due X-fertilisation. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:09:35 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-) Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in any case. LMAO...keep trying Torsten. Laugh away, you know I am right. Or otta. Hmm...mighty sure of yourself. And who voted and made you god? From the sounds of others in this thread, I suspect no one. Keep trying - why dont you try giving evidence to support your god-like claim. How much wheat do you actually grow? This year nothing, it is all maize. Bt perhaps? ;-) Dave Dave Bummer about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens your case. Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly used word in ****ing common American. "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat" herbicide than Roundup. Thanks. Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is well tolerated up to a point. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:49:52 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:09:35 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-) Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in any case. LMAO...keep trying Torsten. Laugh away, you know I am right. Or otta. Hmm...mighty sure of yourself. And who voted and made you god? From the sounds of others in this thread, I suspect no one. Keep trying - why dont you try giving evidence to support your god-like claim. Bah. Rather you should come with some evidence that "up to a point" is a 'nasty' concept with Puma, and that it would be a good thing for chemical grass weed control to wait with the spray until the wheat is growing tall, thickly canopied, when good coverage become troublesome and you unlikely will gain back the yield you already have lost from weed competition. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:49:52 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:09:35 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-) Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in any case. LMAO...keep trying Torsten. Laugh away, you know I am right. Or otta. Hmm...mighty sure of yourself. And who voted and made you god? From the sounds of others in this thread, I suspect no one. Keep trying - why dont you try giving evidence to support your god-like claim. Bah. Rather you should come with some evidence that "up to a point" is a 'nasty' concept with Puma, and that it would be a good thing for chemical grass weed control to wait with the spray until the wheat is growing tall, thickly canopied, when good coverage become troublesome and you unlikely will gain back the yield you already have lost from weed competition. Puma is toxic to some wheat varieties. Wheat engineered with the RR trait wont have such phytotoxicity studies. A full canopy is a very good weed control method - that coupled with a single dose of a broad spectrum herbicide to which it is resistant - ah, smell the profit and minimized damage from running the machinery over the land. I am not quite sure what I will do with all that extra free time I will have on my hand - maybe try some online investing ;-) |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:13:19 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . Bah. Rather you should come with some evidence that "up to a point" is a 'nasty' concept with Puma, and that it would be a good thing for chemical grass weed control to wait with the spray until the wheat is growing tall, thickly canopied, when good coverage become troublesome and you unlikely will gain back the yield you already have lost from weed competition. Puma is toxic to some wheat varieties. .. A full canopy is a very good weed control method .. Pitiful. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Torsten Brinch" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 3:25 AM Subject: RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...) : On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:13:19 GMT, "David Kendra" : wrote: : : "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message : .. . : : Bah. Rather you should come with some evidence that "up to a point" : is a 'nasty' concept with Puma, and that it would be a good thing for : chemical grass weed control to wait with the spray until the wheat is : growing tall, thickly canopied, when good coverage become troublesome : and you unlikely will gain back the yield you already have lost from : weed competition. : : Puma is toxic to some wheat varieties. .. A full canopy is a very : good weed control method .. : : Pitiful. Not when you are spending you money on it. I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. It ****es me off when egotistical anarchist assholes like you use fake concerns for health and ecology to further you anti business, anti globalizization and anti American agenda. To prevent on the rack solution form being used to make a cleaner more productive world. At least you are not as bad as the green leaders that foster a course of action that is 180 degree conflict with their stated concern for sustainable farming and protection of the environment and don't spend a penny to help the farmer with ways to protect the environment but promote methods that assure continued damage to the environment of agricultural and decreasing yields in a time when we desperately need the opposite and line their pockets in the process. They too stand squarely in the way of progress and promote anarchy. Torsten you have spent you live fighting the system that is the only way to improve the lot of the world. If you have spent as much in you life that directly benefits the land as I have spent in a month I would be very much sup. You are such an expert in organic agriculture that you can't grow a organic garden in your back yard. And grow a few plots of wheat with no means of keeping them genetically poor or showed any records of production that shows you might be trying to learn something from you plots. You discourse on agriculture shows a lack of knowledge and an unwillingness to learn any thing about it that does fit with your belief. You have made your point hat you are anti American, anti business, and anti progress. So in order to conserve space lets adopt a code system #1 means America sucks #2 means GW Bush's IQ is less than he weight in stones. #3 The evil Monsanto is trying to take over agriculture #4 Organic food will save use all #5 America is taking over the world # 6 Gordon I full of shit That should cover 90% of you post and save you a lot of typing. Best regards Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. local experience, the very thing that makes a Dane such an expert in US agriculture Jim Webster |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. The area has some granite based and mixed granite and limestone bases soils and some soils that can range in pH from 6.5 to 9 in the same field. There a lot of 7.5 pH fields of clays, and clay loams. The soils along Red River a range from sandy to sandy loams with 1 to 2% organic matter depending on how well they have been cared for over the last 100 years. Many herbicides can't be used in these soils becuse they can wash down in the root system instead of being held in the surface of the soil as in most soils. The area is one of the geologically oldest areas of North America. The soils along the Red River have no definition between top soil, subsoil, water sand and red bed it is just piled in there as the river and wind left it in a basin about 30 or 40 miles wide. The only thing that distinguish top soil is the organic matter and dust from volcano's, fires and dust storms and other air born sours the grass trapped over the eons. The clay soils of the county are primarily decomposes granite with a some lime stone from The Wichita Mountains that are 35 miles north of Red river were the granite is above ground and falls to 6,000 feet at Red River which is juncture of a very old tectonic plate. The soils on the other side of the river are completely different. There are a number of herbicides that can't be use in one part of the county or another because of pH, being too sandy or the weather being to dry. At lest a third of the herbicides for cotton don't work there and only one or two of the defoliants work on drought stressed cotton. Reading the label doesn't take into account local conditions. Of course local condition don't have much meaning to internet organic farming expert that can't even grow organic crops in his own local conditions. Gordon Very little research has been done on this small area of soils. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. you accuse someone of lying, so have you any evidence to support your claim? Jim Webster |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience. What evidence do you have to support yourself or are you just putting up strawmen, which is, saddly all you seem to do lately? |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience. Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago he thought it was a wheat variety. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience. Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago he thought it was a wheat variety. I will still trust his practical experience over your slanderous jibes. As I said earlier, a while back I did value your opinion but lately you come across as so pompous and whine like a little spoiled child when people disagree with you. That's too bad. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. the problem is Gordon, you have had to put your money where your mouth is, torsten is merely regurgitating things he has read and isn't a penny worse off whichever way it goes Jim Webster |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:45:48 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience. Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago he thought it was a wheat variety. I will still trust his practical experience Bwahahaha. Gordon has no practical experience with Puma. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 02:25:42 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: ----------insert--------------- "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat won't control them. But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing crop, haven't you? -----------insert---------------- I checked with 3 chemical dealers in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept the liability of spraying it. Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns. There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Well, so far I seem to have thought right. Everything indicates that you do no have evidence to support the claim that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." If you had evidence, you would have come up with it by now. You have every reason to do so, and none not to. But further, assuming you have indeed talked with your friend and what is claimed there is substantially what he told you about Puma (and what you believe), I think there's likely to have been confusion with another herbicide (a sulfonylurea?) in your conversation. You could both be excused, since Puma for wild oat control in wheat has only recently become available in Oklahoma. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:45:48 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the application. snip So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim. I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience. Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago he thought it was a wheat variety. I will still trust his practical experience Bwahahaha. Gordon has no practical experience with Puma. Thank you for snipping what I wrote without acknowledging that you did so. You really are struggling Torsten. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean, have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields? Thanks. Dave |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. One thing that has interested me, apparently in the EU we are supposed to grow subsidy free wheat and compete on a world market. Now I'm no where near an expert on arable, I do rear cattle and twitch whenever the someone puts grass brown side up. But we have had some interesting swapping of figures on the cattle side looking at comparative costs, and I wondered just how much it costs you gentlemen to actually grow wheat. Jim Webster |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"David Kendra" wrote in message news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean, have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields? Thanks. Dave Dave, There has been some in the past, more so with products such as trifurallin(different chemistry). With proper rotations on different groups of pesticides, it's become mute. (ex.- changing from a group 1 chemistry such as Puma to a group 2 chemistry such as Sundance.) Farmers aren't as dependent on Group 1 chemistry as they once were. I'm not sure if you use the same charts for rotating chemicals as we do, but in case you don't, hopefully this link will work for you. Have a look. http://www.westcoag.com/HerbicideGro...ups%202003.pdf Dean |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
David,
I must add that even though this has virtually eliminated resistance, using SU's has really made farmers watch much closer what kind of crops they are rotating. They can hold much longer in the soil, especially on knolls, where organic matter is poor. Dean "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "David Kendra" wrote in message news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean, have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields? Thanks. Dave Dave, There has been some in the past, more so with products such as trifurallin(different chemistry). With proper rotations on different groups of pesticides, it's become mute. (ex.- changing from a group 1 chemistry such as Puma to a group 2 chemistry such as Sundance.) Farmers aren't as dependent on Group 1 chemistry as they once were. I'm not sure if you use the same charts for rotating chemicals as we do, but in case you don't, hopefully this link will work for you. Have a look. http://www.westcoag.com/HerbicideGro...ups%202003.pdf Dean |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean, All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and Puma would make him money on every turn of the card. He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is going broke. High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of. Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to 80% if you add the first two weeks of April. There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow things down. Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"David Kendra" wrote in message news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean, have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields? Thanks. We wouldn't have developed any chemical resistance in wild oats. They are just becoming a really bad problem and we haven't used much herbicide on them. Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 02:07:02 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote: There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. If it's fenoxaprop in the formulation Puma, you are thinking of, it was registered for wild oats in wheat in Texas/Oklahoma only last year. However, for the same application, and with the same active ingredient, you have had e.g. Silverado since the mid nineties. There is usually some reason that a chemical has been cleared and around for that long, namely that it has been found to be safe and useful for the stated purpose. |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f067907_4@newsfeed... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean, All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and Puma would make him money on every turn of the card. He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is going broke. High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of. Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to 80% if you add the first two weeks of April. There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow things down. Gordon Gordon, What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional methods, it fits very well. By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May 1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes, hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should see a few smiles around here for a couple of days. Dean |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 02:07:02 -0500, "Gordon Couger" wrote: There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. If it's fenoxaprop in the formulation Puma, you are thinking of, it was registered for wild oats in wheat in Texas/Oklahoma only last year. However, for the same application, and with the same active ingredient, you have had e.g. Silverado since the mid nineties. There is usually some reason that a chemical has been cleared and around for that long, namely that it has been found to be safe and useful for the stated purpose. Like Roundup :-) |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f067907_4@newsfeed... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean, All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and Puma would make him money on every turn of the card. He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is going broke. High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of. Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to 80% if you add the first two weeks of April. There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow things down. Gordon Gordon, What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional methods, it fits very well. By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May 1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes, hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should see a few smiles around here for a couple of days. Dean, In Central Illinois, we too are in need of rain. Scab is spotty but moderately intense where present and is receiving a moderate amount of press. Last night I thought we might get some rain but it skirted to northern Illinois. Some of the earlier planted corn is now tasseling; however, some varieties are "onion leafing" and could definitely use some water. Dave |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f067907_4@newsfeed... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean, All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and Puma would make him money on every turn of the card. He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is going broke. High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of. Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to 80% if you add the first two weeks of April. There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow things down. Gordon Gordon, What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional methods, it fits very well. By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May 1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes, hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should see a few smiles around here for a couple of days. Dean, Wheat is conventional tillage with the exception of wheat seed diuretically into cotton stalks after harvest. There a tandem disk and drill are pulled over the uncut stalks and un worked land as soon as the cotton is harvested. The expected yield is 15 bu and acre with out fertilizer and 25 bu and acre with fertilizer. We often use this for seed wheat plots since we can be sure that they are not contaminated with volunteer. We have tried a number of no till schemes on wheat over the last 20 year and they don't work out very well. One of the reasons is most of the value in wheat in that area is in wheat pasture and that of course does not work with no till because of soil compaction. I have produced over 1,000 # per acre of live beef on the best year I had and I can count on 200 pounds on harvested wheat and 500 on grazed out wheat. With beef at 75 cents a pound pasture is an important part of a lot of wheat growers programs. About a third of the time you can get away with out feeding any hay at all to calves on wheat pasture. With grazing producing as much or more money as the grain and not costing anything but some extra nitrogen we have not explored no till wheat very much. With 300 dollar a ton nitrogen things might look different. Down in Tillman county up until a week before father's day it was so dry only a few fellows got corn up. Since then it has rained so much it has been hard to get and keep as stand of cotton and the guys that got their corn up will make 150 bushels or better. Here at Stillwater we are dry. We got a had 4 inch rain in a few minutes a couple of weeks ago that filled up the ponds but most of it ran off. We don't have any subsoil moisture anywhere in the state. In west Texas where the rain doesn't matter a storm took out the cotton and we have poverty peas (soy beans) and milo on the drip and center pivot irrigation. I haven't been down to the ranch south of Vernon Texas this year we rent that to my mother's cousin but they missed the early spring grass. It should be growing fine now but it was a long dry winter after a dry year. It will take a wet summer to get them back in good shape. A betting on a wet summer there is poor bet. Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f067907_4@newsfeed... "Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message ... "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed... If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to. You can think what you damn well please. Gordon Gordon, Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill. I've actually dealt with Puma for many years. (phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop rotation. I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it. Dean, All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and Puma would make him money on every turn of the card. He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is going broke. High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of. Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to 80% if you add the first two weeks of April. There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow things down. Gordon Gordon, What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional methods, it fits very well. By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May 1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes, hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should see a few smiles around here for a couple of days. Dean, Wheat is conventional tillage with the exception of wheat seed diuretically into cotton stalks after harvest. There a tandem disk and drill are pulled over the uncut stalks and un worked land as soon as the cotton is harvested. The expected yield is 15 bu and acre with out fertilizer and 25 bu and acre with fertilizer. We often use this for seed wheat plots since we can be sure that they are not contaminated with volunteer. We have tried a number of no till schemes on wheat over the last 20 year and they don't work out very well. One of the reasons is most of the value in wheat in that area is in wheat pasture and that of course does not work with no till because of soil compaction. I have produced over 1,000 # per acre of live beef on the best year I had and I can count on 200 pounds on harvested wheat and 500 on grazed out wheat. With beef at 75 cents a pound pasture is an important part of a lot of wheat growers programs. About a third of the time you can get away with out feeding any hay at all to calves on wheat pasture. With grazing producing as much or more money as the grain and not costing anything but some extra nitrogen we have not explored no till wheat very much. With 300 dollar a ton nitrogen things might look different. Down in Tillman county up until a week before father's day it was so dry only a few fellows got corn up. Since then it has rained so much it has been hard to get and keep as stand of cotton and the guys that got their corn up will make 150 bushels or better. Here at Stillwater we are dry. We got a had 4 inch rain in a few minutes a couple of weeks ago that filled up the ponds but most of it ran off. We don't have any subsoil moisture anywhere in the state. In west Texas where the rain doesn't matter a storm took out the cotton and we have poverty peas (soy beans) and milo on the drip and center pivot irrigation. I haven't been down to the ranch south of Vernon Texas this year we rent that to my mother's cousin but they missed the early spring grass. It should be growing fine now but it was a long dry winter after a dry year. It will take a wet summer to get them back in good shape. A betting on a wet summer there is poor bet. Gordon |
RR Wheat - but who wants it? (was GM German Wheat Trials...)
"An environmental assessment of Roundup Ready(R) Wheat:
Risks for direct seeding systems in Western Canada. by RC Van Acker,AL Brúle-Babel and LF Friesen The report concludes: "The unconfined release of Roundup Ready wheat will negatively affect the environment and limit farmer's ability to conserve natural ressources on farms in western Canada. The effect of this novel product will have is unique because of the nature of the trait involved and its relationsship to the way in which crops are farmed in western Canada. Under current conditions the release of Roundup Ready wheat in western Canada would be environmentally unsafe." full text of report: http://www.cwb.ca/en/topics/biotechn...pdf/070803.pdf |
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