pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Brian White writes
Sorry Gordon. I guess I am too defensive! In the past, I have had guys saying that it is no better than the mist off the half meter waterfall and it stings! The thing works and nobody has yet put it to scientific test. Eh? You are talking about a hammer pump? They are common, well known, and well scientifically described. There are even web pages on it and a long discussion here about them some years ago. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
If you used that principle to pump water on a large scale the efficiency
would come into play but where there is lots of water any you need a little methods like that are great. The fall of streams in my part of the world is measured in inches per mile in some cases. I was rasied in one of the oldest geological regions of the world. The Red River is about 20 to 30 miles wide and 50 feet deep but only a few feet show above ground the rest flows though the sand that fills the path the river has meandered over all these years. There are very few flowing streams there that you can get enough head for your device. If they are steep enough the water doesn't flow year round. Gordon "Brian White" wrote in message om... Sorry Gordon. I guess I am too defensive! In the past, I have had guys saying that it is no better than the mist off the half meter waterfall and it stings! The thing works and nobody has yet put it to scientific test. All the money that is spent on helping 3rd world countrys, and yet this thing (that can really really help) is ignored! I find it astounding. Until I get feedback from others that have tried it, I have to defend it from all the negative vibes. They really have a detrimental effect. Anyway, when I lived in ireland, where water is plentiful, I used one of the pumps to pump just 6 ft higher to irrigate plants nearby. The fine sediment in streams seems to seal them a bit so that even plants nearby can need water and not be able to get the optimum amount. They are a device for using low grade water power really. They can be used for other things besides pumping water. Anyway, sorry for being so jumpy Brian "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3e40ddf3$1_2@newsfeed... If you have lots of water it's great. I wasn't running it down I was making an observation. I would love to be in a place where water was plentiful and not have to spend from $300 to $1,000 and acre to put in irrigation. I look at water from the point of what it cost to pump because I live on a dry plain and have to pump it from 30 to 300 feet. Gordon |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Dear OZ, Please look at the pulser pump yahoo group or one of the
pulser pump websites or the animated software company's "internet glossary of pumps". After that, It might finally be clear to you. IT ISNT A HAMMER PUMP. It works in a COMPLETELY different way. It ISNT yet common, well known or well scientifically described. Brian White Oz wrote in message ... Brian White writes Sorry Gordon. I guess I am too defensive! In the past, I have had guys saying that it is no better than the mist off the half meter waterfall and it stings! The thing works and nobody has yet put it to scientific test. Eh? You are talking about a hammer pump? They are common, well known, and well scientifically described. There are even web pages on it and a long discussion here about them some years ago. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Brian White writes
Dear OZ, Please look at the pulser pump yahoo group or one of the pulser pump websites or the animated software company's "internet glossary of pumps". After that, It might finally be clear to you. IT ISNT A HAMMER PUMP. It works in a COMPLETELY different way. Tell us then. I can't be bothered to look up sites when I don;t need a pump anyway. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
"Oz" wrote in message ... Brian White writes Sorry Gordon. I guess I am too defensive! In the past, I have had guys saying that it is no better than the mist off the half meter waterfall and it stings! The thing works and nobody has yet put it to scientific test. Eh? You are talking about a hammer pump? They are common, well known, and well scientifically described. There are even web pages on it and a long discussion here about them some years ago. It's an air lift pump. Gordon |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
"Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes It's an air lift pump. Oh, right. Also well described scientifically, although best used for difficult liquids as it's horribly inefficient. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. Both the air lift pump and hammer pump lift a proportion of water from a body of water that has a head over its destination without input of energy from the outside by using some of the energy in the head. You say both types are very inefficient. If you get the water lifted that you require why does it matter if the pump harvests only a small part of the energy in the head as the inefficiency isn't costing you input energy? What type of pump that needs no external energy source is efficient by your standards? David |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
David Hare-Scott writes
Both the air lift pump and hammer pump lift a proportion of water from a body of water that has a head over its destination without input of energy from the outside by using some of the energy in the head. You say both types are very inefficient. They are in that only a small proportion of the available energy is used for useful work. Whether that matters or not depends on the situation. Certainly neither can be considered as 'new' or 'not described scientifically'. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Arguing physics with a physicist should be entertaining.
Gordon. "Brian White" wrote in message om... Well, OZZ, you will be wrong and wrong again without apology, Actually the hammer pump (also better known as a hydram) uses 60% or more of the energy DIRECTLY for useful work. Because there is no waste of energy in conversion, mechanical to electical, electrical to mechanical again, etc. it is almost impossible for a conventional electrically powered pump to come close to that 60% OVERALL efficiency figure! I have that info from an issue of scientific america. The pulser pump is a combined airlift pump and tromp. Please look that combination up in any book over 15 years old. You will not find it. Why? Because it wasnt there. Probably because it didnt exist. Low pressure airlift pumps are NOT well scientifically described. Why? They just extrapulated figures from high pressure airlift pumps. (I know because my pump easily beat their gestimates) They never actually bothered to make low pressure airlift pumps. Try to find information about pumping up an incline with an airlift pump. You will be a while! Yet it works. How good can it be? nobody knows. The good thing is that you are begrudgingly argueing about semantics. People are no longer saying that the pump itself is fake. It is a start! Anyway, low pressure tromps combined with low pressure airlift pumps have NOT yet been yet been described by science. There are interactions between the tromp and airlift sections which make the whole system quite a deal more complex to describe than the 2 devices working seperately. Finally, if airlift is so inefficient, why do people use vacuum cleaners? Wetvacs are clearly airlift pumps and it shouldnt be too much of an imagination leap to realize that dry vacuums are too. And feed trucks that blow animal feed into tall bins. That is airlift pumps too. As are many deep wells. That water in your beverage, might just have been airlifted! http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/pulser/index.htm has lots of pulser info http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulserpump/files/ is where the videos can be found. Brian White Oz wrote in message ... David Hare-Scott writes Both the air lift pump and hammer pump lift a proportion of water from a body of water that has a head over its destination without input of energy from the outside by using some of the energy in the head. You say both types are very inefficient. They are in that only a small proportion of the available energy is used for useful work. Whether that matters or not depends on the situation. Certainly neither can be considered as 'new' or 'not described scientifically'. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
"Brian White" wrote in message
om... Lots of people use hydroelectric power. Some of it is used to pump water from shallow streams. It is not as easy or cheap (in practice) as you make it sound, to use a low flow of water to turn gears to pump water to various heights. That is why there are not many working water wheels now. The reality of water power today is that people generally do generate electricity with waterpower and some of it is used to drive motors to pump water. It is a very roundabout way to do it in my opinion. A whole lot of people are missing the point! Brian white "Gilgamesh" wrote in message ... If I were using the water flow to power the pump, why on earth would I want to generate electricity and then drive a motor from it? Wouldn't gearing work? What am I missing - it must be something obvious .. May glorious Shamash make his face to shine upon you Gilgamesh of Uruk (Include Enkidu in the subject line to avoid the spam trap) "Brian White" wrote in message There are plenty of turbines around - and an increasing number of waterwheels of various types. I would certainly include a generator of some sort - but you haven't convinced me that it is sensible to then use that electricity to drive a pump. I'd rig it to be selectable - pump when wanted, gennie as an alternative. -- May glorious Shamash make his face to shine upon you Gilgamesh of Uruk (Include Enkidu in the subject line to avoid the spam trap) |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Brian White writes
The power head involved is half a meter. (You can use one meter because you are a physisist). And the throughput of driving water? The power flow (for you) is 600 liters per minute. To what head? And you get to use 6 inch diameter pipes in the construction. So? You can obviously devine the best depths and heights for pumping because you say they are completely researched. Doubtless. However it's your job to search for the refs and quote them. (By the way, pulser pumps are not very energy efficient. Ram pumps are really energy efficient). (Just to clear that up for interested partys). Actually ram pumps are not at all efficient. They are used where efficiency is not important but simplicity, cost and reliability is. OK, so you can give input-output specs and so on. Selecting an appropriate pump requires knowing input power (in this case presumably water) and expected (preferably guaranteed) output at various heads. Just saying this is a wonderful system, cuts no ice. Still waiting for some basic data. OK, post your I/O specs here then. There is no point in me repeating it. I already know that it works. What do you mean by 'works'? Somebody said you are a physicist. Even there, experiment and repeatability is the proof of the science. Is that not so? Absolutely, let's see the specs. Still waiting. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Brian White writes
http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/pulser/index.htm So why not just cut & paste an extract? Eg capacity. WORKING MODEL Approx. Flow 260 liters per minute of water , head 0.5 m, going 2.5m deep and pulsing to 3.6 m gave 4 liters per minute. The same setup gave 1.5 lpm at 5 meters high. This was with a split process pump using 10 cm (4 inch) pipes for the stream water and using 19 mm (3/4 in) for the pulsed water delivery. The efficiency decreases like this as one pumps higher. On the other hand, 2 stages to 7 meters will give about 2 liters per minute with the same setup. Going deeper also increases the efficiency. Perhaps you have an abandoned well that you can use? So input power 260 x 0.5 x g/60 joules Useful output 4 x 3.6 x g /60 joules Efficiency 11% At 5m lift it's 6%. It's not rocket science. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
So, I guess this is a summary of the whole thread. Sometimes, you can
take a horse to a river but you cannot make him drink. Same with some respondees to this thread! If you get into argueing about the definition of work, then the arguement gets a bit pointless! The basis of science is experiment. I have taken hundreds of measurements of the pulser pumps shown on the videos and a few others. I had hoped to interest a few people in making their own pumps and reporting their results and their experiments using different heads and flows. To help map the limits of the pump. The hope is still there. Take a look at the videos. Bear in mind that the pump shown uses a really small flow of water falling a small distamce and clearly, it is pumping a significant amount of water. Your water flow might be 10 times as much and your fall or power head might be a meter or more. Imagine how much water would be moved then! And all without a moving part to go wrong! And, remember, it isnt just a water pump! Take care Brian White (Brian White) wrote in message . com... My brother has just sent me short avi videos and pictures of a pulser pump back in Ireland. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulserpump/files/ They show the pumping of water clearly. Hopefully he will send me more of it pumping quite a bit higher. (He just has to add a section of pipe to the top of the 3/4 inch pipe to go higher). There are pictures from him in the picture album section too. Please note that this pump is powered by a tiny stream falling a small distance, has no moving parts and can pump to over 7 meters high! Imagine what a decent sized river could do! http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/pulser/index.htm Brian White |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
On Albert Einstein has a patents on a small 15to 18 mm air lift pump. That
must have been in his early years before give up on hydrology as an unsolvable problem and taking up physics. His son did take up hydrology and did quite well at it working for the USDA. http://www.me.gatech.edu/energy/andy_phd/one.htm I think your claims of new and relativity are really you reinvented the wheel again. -- Gordon Gordon Couger Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger "Brian White" wrote in message om... So, I guess this is a summary of the whole thread. Sometimes, you can take a horse to a river but you cannot make him drink. Same with some respondees to this thread! If you get into argueing about the definition of work, then the arguement gets a bit pointless! The basis of science is experiment. I have taken hundreds of measurements of the pulser pumps shown on the videos and a few others. I had hoped to interest a few people in making their own pumps and reporting their results and their experiments using different heads and flows. To help map the limits of the pump. The hope is still there. Take a look at the videos. Bear in mind that the pump shown uses a really small flow of water falling a small distamce and clearly, it is pumping a significant amount of water. Your water flow might be 10 times as much and your fall or power head might be a meter or more. Imagine how much water would be moved then! And all without a moving part to go wrong! And, remember, it isnt just a water pump! Take care Brian White (Brian White) wrote in message . com... My brother has just sent me short avi videos and pictures of a pulser pump back in Ireland. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulserpump/files/ They show the pumping of water clearly. Hopefully he will send me more of it pumping quite a bit higher. (He just has to add a section of pipe to the top of the 3/4 inch pipe to go higher). There are pictures from him in the picture album section too. Please note that this pump is powered by a tiny stream falling a small distance, has no moving parts and can pump to over 7 meters high! Imagine what a decent sized river could do! http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/pulser/index.htm Brian White |
pulser pump video (Simplest pump in the world)
Thank you, Gordon! You will get an honerable mention in the pulser
pump group! I dont know if I reinvented anything yet. Regardless, I will attempt to make it widely known. The link looks like a source of valuable experimental info. Seems like a different branch of 2 phase flow research to me. Nice to know that Einstein saw the value of 2 phase flow. Hope others will follow his lead. Brian White "Gordon Couger" wrote in message news:3e50c04e_2@newsfeed... On Albert Einstein has a patents on a small 15to 18 mm air lift pump. That must have been in his early years before give up on hydrology as an unsolvable problem and taking up physics. His son did take up hydrology and did quite well at it working for the USDA. http://www.me.gatech.edu/energy/andy_phd/one.htm I think your claims of new and relativity are really you reinvented the wheel again. -- Gordon Gordon Couger Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger |
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