(Kevin Eanes) wrote in message . com...
SNIP It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would
eliminate
the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable
alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for
pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually.
SNIP
Best regards,
-Kevin

Pest reduction is achieved by dropping said concrete blocks on snails
unfortunatly the grasshoppers we have here just kick them back at you.
Regards
John

JohnH wrote:

(Kevin Eanes) wrote in message . com...
SNIP It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would
eliminate
the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable
alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for
pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually.
SNIP
Best regards,
-Kevin

Pest reduction is achieved by dropping said concrete blocks on snails
unfortunatly the grasshoppers we have here just kick them back at you.
Regards
John

The concreteblock method is really misnamed. It is really the MowingMethod
for it combines two steps of the PetrolbasedFarmMethod. It combines
fertilizing with herbicide and eliminates both in the process of mowing between
crop rows. What I do not know at this moment in time is whether a strip
of legumes instead of weeds and grasses would provide a second cash
crop along with the soybeans and corn. I do not know if some legumes
would fertilize the corn and soybeans with their underground roots of
nitrogen fixing bacteria and whether the above ground clippings can be thus
sold as a second cash crop. Or whether the clippings are also needed for
fertilizer.

So no concreteblock are really needed if one uses the Mowing Method. But the
block will make the Mowing Method that much better. You could say perfect
the Mowing Method. A poor Peruvian farmer is not going to have the money
to invest in putting concrete block on his 20 acres but a Organic farmer in
Iowa with each yearly profits can begin to line rows of concrete block on his
20 acres and same for nearly all the farmers of Europe.

A NorthDakota farmer with weed spurge infestations cannot make a profit
since the cost of herbicide exceeds the crop sales. But if he planted his
rows so that he can mow between the crop and thus use the weeds as fertilizer
then those fields of infestation will yield him a yearly profit provided he
keep the mowing cost to a minimum.

The MowingMethod addresses pest control better than the Petrolbased
Method because in the mowing method we are not restricted to fields of monocultures. And that is really what
drives up the population of insect pests
when entire states have corn and soybean fields. Disaster from insect pests
and other pests is just an invitation for disaster when you have monocultures.

In the MowingMethod without Concreteblock you can diversify each farm
field with many different crops to reduce pests.

And the maximum of the MowingMethod which is to apply ConcreteBlock
you increase the number of spiders by very much since the spiders love that
block as a home to anchor on. Almost everyone of my block has resident spiders.

I am in favor of biotech seeds that are antipest plants. The corn that is anti
worm. So if these biotech seeds need a planting that is special from that of
the petrolbased farming then the concreteblock method maybe that protection
and added care that these specialty seeds need.

I acknowledge that the Mowing Method combines both fertilizing and herbicide
into one and eliminates those two, but that the Mowing Method still faces the
challenges of pest control that the Petrolbased Method deals with. However, the
Mowing Method with its ConcreteBlock application may not be pest free but
it reduces pests whereas the Petrolbased method increases pests.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

On 5/30/03 1:41 PM, in article , "Archimedes
Plutonium" wrote:

Some snipped.

Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find
out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their
homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings
and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer".

Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass
and weed mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn
in perpetuity? I just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors
are mostly salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies
and have spent the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single
one of them researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to
artificial fertilizer application.


More cut.

Can I butt in once more? I was listening to a show called AgPHD. They
were talking about controlling weeds in corn. They said studies show grass
even one inch tall will start to cut yields. They didn't say who did the
studies.
It's a pretty fair bet that anything affecting crop yields has been
studied. For example a planting depth of 2" is best for the development of
a corn plant's root system. There have been studies on the value of human
waste as fertilizer. One pound of nitrogen is needed for each bushel of
corn produced.
Farmers themselves test things. Did so and so pesticide work as well as
the old one? Was it cheaper? Did the application do enough good to justify
the cost?
Nutrients and water are removed from the land each time a crop is
harvested. Naturally they have to be replaced each year to maintain yields.

Dean




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Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ...

Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find
out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their
homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings
and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer".

Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass and weed
mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn in perpituity? I
just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors are mostly
salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies and have spent
the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single one of them
researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to artificial fertilizer
application.

(snipped)

The most important data I need at this time is how much grass/weed clippings
in mowing is needed for a row of corn so that it is fertilized during the
summer? I need to know if 3 feet is the proper spacing. Of course some crops
such as beans need less fertilizing by clippings than does corn. I need to
know if any scientists have made that knowledge available.

How much grass/weed clippings equals a cupful of common fertilizer?

Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.

Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre

The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual
needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing,
(2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans
work well), and (3) the desired crop yield.

To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the
above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass
clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to
varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed
clippings.

I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could
obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio
of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to
calculate the optimal spacing.

Best Regards,
-Kevin

Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:43:18 -0500 Dean Hoffman wrote:



Can I butt in once more? I was listening to a show called AgPHD. They
were talking about controlling weeds in corn. They said studies show grass
even one inch tall will start to cut yields. They didn't say who did the
studies.

A show such as that is more sales than it is science. There is some sprinkling
of science in that TV show but it is more prone to sales pitches and sales
convincing.

Here is a counterexample: I had corn some 2 years ago where one row
was kept in black dirt of hoeing and one row was on the border of a
patch of brome grass that I was often unable to cut the grass until it was
a foot tall and the endresult was that the yields from the black dirt corn
was not any different from the brome grass mowed row of corn. However,
there was a difference in disease between the blackdirt corn and the
grass infested corn in that the grass infested corn was less diseased
than the hoed corn. That white stuff that grows on the corn ears and
makes it look like popcorn was affecting the dirt grown corn whereas
the grassy grown corn seemed to be disease free. Perhaps disease
and insects when they see a monoculture field and so much dirt
exposed have an easier time of infestation than if they have a choice
between grass, weeds and the corn.


It's a pretty fair bet that anything affecting crop yields has been
studied. For example a planting depth of 2" is best for the development of
a corn plant's root system. There have been studies on the value of human
waste as fertilizer. One pound of nitrogen is needed for each bushel of
corn produced.

I doubt that any detailed ag study of where you combine herbicide with
fertilizing via Mowing and thus eliminate ever the need to apply herbicide
or to apply fertilizer was done. I mean a "detailed study" because it would
compete with the huge chemical herbicide and fertilizer companies which
comprise perhaps 1/2 of the entire agriculture business. Once farmers
never need to go to the store to buy herbicide or fertilizer then they need
seldom need the store at all.

Of course you increase the need of stores that sell and handle Mowers.


Farmers themselves test things. Did so and so pesticide work as well as
the old one? Was it cheaper? Did the application do enough good to justify
the cost?
Nutrients and water are removed from the land each time a crop is
harvested. Naturally they have to be replaced each year to maintain yields.

Commonsense should rule here. Most lawns in the USA are seldom if ever
fertilized yet they are nice and bright green and plush. The reason is because
they are mowed so often that they are self-fertilized. Plants have grown
on land for millions of years and billions of years before ever any human
ran around sprinkling fertilizer. There is a natural fertilizer cycle and it
involves
the use of plant clipping and plant decay to return nutrients to the soil.

Of course, when you make a field black exposed dirt every summer you need
to add artificial fertilizer. But when you have your field respond to the
natural
rythms of plant cycles of cut and clip and decay then fertilizer is a renewable

entity.

Farming via the petrolbased method where heavy machinery is the answer to
every problem on the farm is only a one or two century aberration of history.
A time period in which humanity has found huge oil reserves and like a kid in
a ice cream parlor allowed to eat anything. Someday soon in the future gasoline

prices will make it such that farming has to go renewable instead of this big
machine equipment and diesel solving problems.

Petrol based farming has been here only since about 1930 and I see its demise
sometime in the 21st century. Renewable farming has been here since prehistory
and soon it will start to crowd out petrolbased farming as the aberration of
history that it truly is.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Kevin Eanes writes
A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

These look to me to be %age IN THE DRYMATTER.

Allowing a DM% of say 15% means your 3.5T of clippings should be
somewhere approaching 25T fresh.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

I think that one aspect of Mow farming compared to Petrolbased
farming that is overlooked is the amount of underground soil
activity of insects such as earthworms that the robin bird loves to
eat. I would hazard to guess that earthworm populations are a huge
contributor to the fertilization of plants and that a field farmed
via mowing has much more earthworm and insect activity as
fertilizer than a petrolbased farmed field.



Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre

The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual
needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing,
(2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans
work well), and (3) the desired crop yield.

I wonder whether the Amish and 19th century farming ever came to
a conclusion it was okay to let weeds and grass grow amoung their
corn so long as they kept them cut around 5 to 10 times per summer.



To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the
above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass
clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to
varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed
clippings.

Trying to get a mental picture of what 3.5 tons of grass is. I wonder
how many bails of hay that a person lifts is equivalent.



I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could
obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio
of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to
calculate the optimal spacing.

Best Regards,
-Kevin

My guess is that there are thousands of farmers in Europe and NorthAmerica
that already are farming or gardening using the Mower method and yet they
do not realize it. I would guess that most every backyard gardener seldom applies
any fertilizer to his/her crop and that they all mow the grass near their
garden.

I bet there are thousands of farmers who never use herbicides and who seldom
use fertilizer and who mow between their crop rows to keep it looking good and
not realizing that their mowing is fertilizing. So that if all of these farmers can
be polled, tallied and spoken to about their operation, that we have more data
and knowledge on MowerFarming than what we suspect.

Kevin, an interesting question is whether legumes such as alfalfa and clover
provide fertilizer to nearby corn and soybeans from their root systems and whether a farm can have two
simultaneous cash crops of corn and clover.
I have seen alfalfa only solo in fields and never corn and alfalfa together.
But if it is true that the alfalfa root system alone provides fertilizer to nearby
corn and that the cut alfalfa can be sold as a cash crop, then that would be
an added incentive to convert to the Mower Farming Method.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

why does that not surprise anyone.

Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't
actually have a use for it

Jim Webster

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

why does that not surprise anyone.

Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't
actually have a use for it

Jim Webster

"Kevin Eanes" wrote in message
om...
Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message
...

Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%


Hi Kevin. Is there any nitrogen in grass clippings? I thought only certain
plants (legumes??) could extract nitrogen from the air and 'fix' it into the
soil. Something like soybeans? Well, I guess any plant has *some* nitrogen
in its structure, but that just came from the soil in the first place didn't
it?

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.

Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre


If I understand Archimedes' idea correctly, the grass clippings come from
the same field that the corn is planted in. Wouldn't this deplete the soil
of nutrients? Seems like taking nutrients in the form of corn ears out of a
field repeatedly would gradually deplete the soil. Farmers put nutrients
back into the field from animal waste or chemicals. Granted, Archimedes
probably won't live long enough to see his field turn into useless land, but
his off-spring will inherit the results of poor crop management??

Wasn't this part of what created the 'great dustbowl' during the depression?
A drought true, but overfarming the same crops year-after-year depleted the
soil?

But if the grass clippings are constantly recycled into the soil, then the
only nutrient loss is the harvested crop. And he has a point that the
'ecosystem' of worms, insects, etc... is probably much healthier than hoed
dirt, right??

just curious,

daestrom