Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Recently I posted a thread about the use of the regular concrete block
of 16 X 8 X 8 for gardens and farming. It is a great idea and now want
to talk about it
in detail as I am running experiments on this approach. In the future
when
petrol is scarce this is (I feel) the maximum means of farming. I am
always
talking about the Optimal Strategy in VonNeumann Gametheory in
mathematics.
And I believe all of agriculture has an OS of farming. In the future
when petrol is rare and expensive and when fusion engineering realizes
there will never be
Fusion Electric Power Plants (Fusion Barrier Principle). Then in that
future time
agriculture will have to become MAXIMIZED for efficiency. And that is
when
I believe Concrete Block will be the theme and focus of farming. Also,
this
planet Earth needs to have a limited amount of human population where I
am
guessing the magic number is 2 billion people. I just wonder how many
concrete
block this planet needs for agriculture for that of 2 billion people.
What a beautiful quantization of agriculture. Quantized by concrete
building blocks.

WHAT IT IS: It is the placement of concreteblock on land surface wherein

one of the holes of the block is placed the seed or small plant. The
block thence
protects the plant and marks the plant where it is. The block are spaced
such
that a human driven push mower, either human muscle or draft animal so
that
the block protects the plant whenever the pushmower is drawn through the

spacings. The clipped weeds and grass become the fertilizer. So, in this
future
farming there never needs be applied fertilizer for the clippings
provide all
the fertilizer. There never needs be applied herbicides because the
weeds are
encouraged to grow for more clippings as fertilizer. There is the
problem
of more people working on the farm to hand weed the block where the
plant is in. I either hand weed or use a shears carefully.

What IT WILL Change: In this Concrete Block future farming there will
be no need for farm equipment such as tractors or combines or any other
heavy equipment. There will be no need to buy any petrol. No need to
buy any fertilizer. No need to buy any herbicides. There will be more
people
working in farming. There will be a need for horses and donkeys again.
And it may also eliminate the need for most insecticides because the
fields
can be diversified instead of one kind of crop.

Experiments So Far: On all of the tomatoes planted inside a
concreteblock
cover, all of them are doing fine. Those planted without a concrete
block
cover, over 50% are dead because of either birds pulling up the pot in
search
of worms or because of too much sunlight moving from indoors to
outdoors.
Caveat: none of the seeds planted in the concreteblock have emerged yet.
So
if the seed have a tougher time of emerging may have to remedy the
problem by
placing the block to the side until emerged.

Here in the USA, concreteblock of 16X8X8 cost about $1.20 apiece. So to
have
an acre of these block spaced for the mower to go lengthwise and
widthwise is
not cheap. But then again, paying for petrol and tractor and all the
other farm
machinery and paying for herbicides and insecticides and fertilizer are
not cheap.

I remember a TV show about some NorthDakota farmers having trouble with
a
weed that is costing them $80. per acre to spray with herbicides just to
control
it. So the herbicide costs more than any viable crop. In the future,
there will be
not just one of these weeds beyond the price of control but many of them

resistant to herbicides. This type of situation is a perfect test for
the ConcreteBlock method of farming. If we take that NorthDakota
infestation of
$80 weeds fields and put concrete block spaced so that a lawnmower can
go through easily. Then we use that weed as a natural fertilizer for the

crop plant inside the block.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
Recently I posted a thread about the use of the regular concrete block
of 16 X 8 X 8 for gardens and farming. It is a great idea and now want
to talk about it
in detail as I am running experiments on this approach. In the future
when
petrol is scarce this is (I feel) the maximum means of farming. I am
always
talking about the Optimal Strategy in VonNeumann Gametheory in
mathematics.
And I believe all of agriculture has an OS of farming. In the future
when petrol is rare and expensive and when fusion engineering realizes
there will never be
Fusion Electric Power Plants (Fusion Barrier Principle). Then in that
future time
agriculture will have to become MAXIMIZED for efficiency. And that is
when
I believe Concrete Block will be the theme and focus of farming. Also,
this
planet Earth needs to have a limited amount of human population where I
am
guessing the magic number is 2 billion people. I just wonder how many
concrete
block this planet needs for agriculture for that of 2 billion people.
What a beautiful quantization of agriculture. Quantized by concrete
building blocks.

WHAT IT IS: It is the placement of concreteblock on land surface wherein

one of the holes of the block is placed the seed or small plant. The
block thence
protects the plant and marks the plant where it is. The block are spaced
such
that a human driven push mower, either human muscle or draft animal so
that
the block protects the plant whenever the pushmower is drawn through the

spacings. The clipped weeds and grass become the fertilizer. So, in this
future
farming there never needs be applied fertilizer for the clippings
provide all
the fertilizer. There never needs be applied herbicides because the
weeds are
encouraged to grow for more clippings as fertilizer. There is the
problem
of more people working on the farm to hand weed the block where the
plant is in. I either hand weed or use a shears carefully.

What IT WILL Change: In this Concrete Block future farming there will
be no need for farm equipment such as tractors or combines or any other
heavy equipment. There will be no need to buy any petrol. No need to
buy any fertilizer. No need to buy any herbicides. There will be more
people
working in farming. There will be a need for horses and donkeys again.
And it may also eliminate the need for most insecticides because the
fields
can be diversified instead of one kind of crop.

Experiments So Far: On all of the tomatoes planted inside a
concreteblock
cover, all of them are doing fine. Those planted without a concrete
block
cover, over 50% are dead because of either birds pulling up the pot in
search
of worms or because of too much sunlight moving from indoors to
outdoors.
Caveat: none of the seeds planted in the concreteblock have emerged yet.
So
if the seed have a tougher time of emerging may have to remedy the
problem by
placing the block to the side until emerged.

Here in the USA, concreteblock of 16X8X8 cost about $1.20 apiece. So to
have
an acre of these block spaced for the mower to go lengthwise and
widthwise is
not cheap. But then again, paying for petrol and tractor and all the
other farm
machinery and paying for herbicides and insecticides and fertilizer are
not cheap.

I remember a TV show about some NorthDakota farmers having trouble with
a
weed that is costing them $80. per acre to spray with herbicides just to
control
it. So the herbicide costs more than any viable crop. In the future,
there will be
not just one of these weeds beyond the price of control but many of them

resistant to herbicides. This type of situation is a perfect test for
the ConcreteBlock method of farming. If we take that NorthDakota
infestation of
$80 weeds fields and put concrete block spaced so that a lawnmower can
go through easily. Then we use that weed as a natural fertilizer for the

crop plant inside the block.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

When energy is dear hydauic cemtent to make concrete blocks become dearer
still.

On some thinks you have enoght knowlege to make an agrument the looks
reasonable or bit. You know so little about the engey balace of agricuture
that any preschool farm kid can see thorought it.

Grodon

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

It's well you broached the topic on a message list like this and see that
your idea is hogwash. It will save you the embarrassment of being publicly
denounced.

I do not mean to be ornery but your concept has less than no value. Look
around you and discover what is really working for productive minded folks.

Jim Curts


"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
Recently I posted a thread about the use of the regular concrete block
of 16 X 8 X 8 for gardens and farming. It is a great idea and now want
to talk about it
in detail as I am running experiments on this approach. In the future
when
petrol is scarce this is (I feel) the maximum means of farming. I am
always
talking about the Optimal Strategy in VonNeumann Gametheory in
mathematics.
And I believe all of agriculture has an OS of farming. In the future
when petrol is rare and expensive and when fusion engineering realizes
there will never be
Fusion Electric Power Plants (Fusion Barrier Principle). Then in that
future time
agriculture will have to become MAXIMIZED for efficiency. And that is
when
I believe Concrete Block will be the theme and focus of farming. Also,
this
planet Earth needs to have a limited amount of human population where I
am
guessing the magic number is 2 billion people. I just wonder how many
concrete
block this planet needs for agriculture for that of 2 billion people.
What a beautiful quantization of agriculture. Quantized by concrete
building blocks.

WHAT IT IS: It is the placement of concreteblock on land surface wherein

one of the holes of the block is placed the seed or small plant. The
block thence
protects the plant and marks the plant where it is. The block are spaced
such
that a human driven push mower, either human muscle or draft animal so
that
the block protects the plant whenever the pushmower is drawn through the

spacings. The clipped weeds and grass become the fertilizer. So, in this
future
farming there never needs be applied fertilizer for the clippings
provide all
the fertilizer. There never needs be applied herbicides because the
weeds are
encouraged to grow for more clippings as fertilizer. There is the
problem
of more people working on the farm to hand weed the block where the
plant is in. I either hand weed or use a shears carefully.

What IT WILL Change: In this Concrete Block future farming there will
be no need for farm equipment such as tractors or combines or any other
heavy equipment. There will be no need to buy any petrol. No need to
buy any fertilizer. No need to buy any herbicides. There will be more
people
working in farming. There will be a need for horses and donkeys again.
And it may also eliminate the need for most insecticides because the
fields
can be diversified instead of one kind of crop.

Experiments So Far: On all of the tomatoes planted inside a
concreteblock
cover, all of them are doing fine. Those planted without a concrete
block
cover, over 50% are dead because of either birds pulling up the pot in
search
of worms or because of too much sunlight moving from indoors to
outdoors.
Caveat: none of the seeds planted in the concreteblock have emerged yet.
So
if the seed have a tougher time of emerging may have to remedy the
problem by
placing the block to the side until emerged.

Here in the USA, concreteblock of 16X8X8 cost about $1.20 apiece. So to
have
an acre of these block spaced for the mower to go lengthwise and
widthwise is
not cheap. But then again, paying for petrol and tractor and all the
other farm
machinery and paying for herbicides and insecticides and fertilizer are
not cheap.

I remember a TV show about some NorthDakota farmers having trouble with
a
weed that is costing them $80. per acre to spray with herbicides just to
control
it. So the herbicide costs more than any viable crop. In the future,
there will be
not just one of these weeds beyond the price of control but many of them

resistant to herbicides. This type of situation is a perfect test for
the ConcreteBlock method of farming. If we take that NorthDakota
infestation of
$80 weeds fields and put concrete block spaced so that a lawnmower can
go through easily. Then we use that weed as a natural fertilizer for the

crop plant inside the block.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Sat, 24 May 2003 11:25:27 -0500 Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Recently I posted a thread about the use of the regular concrete block
of 16 X 8 X 8 for gardens and farming. It is a great idea and now want
to talk about it
in detail as I am running experiments on this approach. In the future
when
petrol is scarce this is (I feel) the maximum means of farming. I am
always
talking about the Optimal Strategy in VonNeumann Gametheory in
mathematics.
And I believe all of agriculture has an OS of farming. In the future
when petrol is rare and expensive and when fusion engineering realizes
there will never be
Fusion Electric Power Plants (Fusion Barrier Principle). Then in that
future time
agriculture will have to become MAXIMIZED for efficiency. And that is
when
I believe Concrete Block will be the theme and focus of farming. Also,
this
planet Earth needs to have a limited amount of human population where I
am
guessing the magic number is 2 billion people. I just wonder how many
concrete
block this planet needs for agriculture for that of 2 billion people.
What a beautiful quantization of agriculture. Quantized by concrete
building blocks.

WHAT IT IS: It is the placement of concreteblock on land surface wherein

one of the holes of the block is placed the seed or small plant. The
block thence
protects the plant and marks the plant where it is. The block are spaced
such
that a human driven push mower, either human muscle or draft animal so
that
the block protects the plant whenever the pushmower is drawn through the

spacings. The clipped weeds and grass become the fertilizer. So, in this
future
farming there never needs be applied fertilizer for the clippings
provide all
the fertilizer. There never needs be applied herbicides because the
weeds are
encouraged to grow for more clippings as fertilizer. There is the
problem
of more people working on the farm to hand weed the block where the
plant is in. I either hand weed or use a shears carefully.

What IT WILL Change: In this Concrete Block future farming there will
be no need for farm equipment such as tractors or combines or any other
heavy equipment. There will be no need to buy any petrol. No need to
buy any fertilizer. No need to buy any herbicides. There will be more
people
working in farming. There will be a need for horses and donkeys again.
And it may also eliminate the need for most insecticides because the
fields
can be diversified instead of one kind of crop.

Experiments So Far: On all of the tomatoes planted inside a
concreteblock
cover, all of them are doing fine. Those planted without a concrete
block
cover, over 50% are dead because of either birds pulling up the pot in
search
of worms or because of too much sunlight moving from indoors to
outdoors.
Caveat: none of the seeds planted in the concreteblock have emerged yet.
So
if the seed have a tougher time of emerging may have to remedy the
problem by
placing the block to the side until emerged.

Here in the USA, concreteblock of 16X8X8 cost about $1.20 apiece. So to
have
an acre of these block spaced for the mower to go lengthwise and
widthwise is
not cheap. But then again, paying for petrol and tractor and all the
other farm
machinery and paying for herbicides and insecticides and fertilizer are
not cheap.

I remember a TV show about some NorthDakota farmers having trouble with
a
weed that is costing them $80. per acre to spray with herbicides just to
control
it. So the herbicide costs more than any viable crop. In the future,
there will be
not just one of these weeds beyond the price of control but many of them

resistant to herbicides. This type of situation is a perfect test for
the ConcreteBlock method of farming. If we take that NorthDakota
infestation of
$80 weeds fields and put concrete block spaced so that a lawnmower can
go through easily. Then we use that weed as a natural fertilizer for the

crop plant inside the block.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

This is going to be a long thread over time and so I need the very best
newsgroups to purvey. I need sci.agriculture, sci.energy and
sci.environment.
Trouble with newsgroups such as sci.bio.botany and sci.bio.technology is
that they are either irrelevant or they have too many regular posters with
parochial minds unable to have a single theoretical thought. 90% of
laypersons
or common persons are unable to be scientific and 90% of people who call
themselves scientists and scientific are not really scientists but
pretentious.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...

90% of
laypersons
or common persons are unable to be scientific and 90% of people who call
themselves scientists and scientific are not really scientists but
pretentious.

Seeing as how it comes from Archimedes, I will treasure that quote for a
long time indeed

Jim Webster

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Jim Webster writes

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...

90% of
laypersons
or common persons are unable to be scientific and 90% of people who call
themselves scientists and scientific are not really scientists but
pretentious.

Seeing as how it comes from Archimedes, I will treasure that quote for a
long time indeed

Well he was for many years a janitor at a well-known american
university.

Admittedly you probably wouldn't have heard of it and I can't quite
recollect it's name just now.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...

90% of
laypersons
or common persons are unable to be scientific and 90% of people who
call
themselves scientists and scientific are not really scientists but
pretentious.

Seeing as how it comes from Archimedes, I will treasure that quote for a
long time indeed

Well he was for many years a janitor at a well-known american
university.

Admittedly you probably wouldn't have heard of it and I can't quite
recollect it's name just now.

I knew he was in further education

Jim Webster

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

On 5/24/03 11:25 AM, in article , "Archimedes
Plutonium" wrote:

Recently I posted a thread about the use of the regular concrete block
of 16 X 8 X 8 for gardens and farming. It is a great idea and now want
to talk about it
in detail as I am running experiments on this approach. In the future
when
petrol is scarce this is (I feel) the maximum means of farming. I am
always
talking about the Optimal Strategy in VonNeumann Gametheory in
mathematics.
And I believe all of agriculture has an OS of farming. In the future
when petrol is rare and expensive and when fusion engineering realizes
there will never be
Fusion Electric Power Plants (Fusion Barrier Principle). Then in that
future time
agriculture will have to become MAXIMIZED for efficiency. And that is
when
I believe Concrete Block will be the theme and focus of farming. Also,
this
planet Earth needs to have a limited amount of human population where I
am
guessing the magic number is 2 billion people. I just wonder how many
concrete
block this planet needs for agriculture for that of 2 billion people.
What a beautiful quantization of agriculture. Quantized by concrete
building blocks.

WHAT IT IS: It is the placement of concreteblock on land surface wherein

one of the holes of the block is placed the seed or small plant. The
block thence
protects the plant and marks the plant where it is. The block are spaced
such
that a human driven push mower, either human muscle or draft animal so
that
the block protects the plant whenever the pushmower is drawn through the

spacings. The clipped weeds and grass become the fertilizer. So, in this
future
farming there never needs be applied fertilizer for the clippings
provide all
the fertilizer. There never needs be applied herbicides because the
weeds are
encouraged to grow for more clippings as fertilizer. There is the
problem
of more people working on the farm to hand weed the block where the
plant is in. I either hand weed or use a shears carefully.

What IT WILL Change: In this Concrete Block future farming there will
be no need for farm equipment such as tractors or combines or any other
heavy equipment. There will be no need to buy any petrol. No need to
buy any fertilizer. No need to buy any herbicides. There will be more
people
working in farming. There will be a need for horses and donkeys again.
And it may also eliminate the need for most insecticides because the
fields
can be diversified instead of one kind of crop.

A couple things come to mind. The grass and weeds take valuable
moisture so your idea would work only in areas with plenty of rainfall.
They also take nutrients out of the soil.
Farmers had horse drawn planters and cultivators before tractors. Tin
shields protected the plants as the cultivator shovels went by. The same is
true today with tractor drawn equipment.
There used to be something called check planting. A wire was stretched
the length of the row. This wire had evenly spaced knobs or knots on it.
The planter would drop a seed at each knot. The wire had to be moved after
the planter completed a pass. This planting method would allow a field to
be cultivated east-west and north-south to help eliminate the weeds.
Crop rotation used to be regular practice. The U.S. Farm program and
economics put and end to that for awhile. Rotation is being practiced more
now since the Freedom to Farm Act (1996) and the invention of Roundup ready
soybeans.
There used to be migrant workers that would come through to weed the
soybeans before RR beans were invented. The workers did fine with their
hoes without an obstacle in the way.
What happens to your concrete enclosed plants in a heavy rain? That might
be something to test. What if a worker trips and bangs his head against one
of those blocks? I smell lawsuit. Just askin.

Dean





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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Dean Hoffman wrote:
(snipped what I wrote)


A couple things come to mind. The grass and weeds take valuable
moisture so your idea would work only in areas with plenty of rainfall.

Well, not really. That is mostly a assumption never really tested. Of course
in the desert of say Arizona or New Mexico where water really is critical
then any and all weeds are avoided.

But starting with the Grasslands and higher water regions I suspect that
assumption is false. I have noticed, but not run a full science test, that
when you have a dry spell on these Prairie grasslands. That a plant
surrounded by black dirt with no competing weeds nearby does more
poorly than does a plant surrounded by weeds which those weeds are
kept cut and trimmed to the ground. Why that is I cannot say for sure
in that the clippings do contain moisture which perhaps gets to the
desired crop plant or whether the soil with the weed roots undisturbed
retains more moisture than the tilled and hoed ground around the
crop plant.

I would guess that from Praire Grasslands on upwards to more
watery zones, that having clipped or mowed weeds nearby a
cropplant is far better than having black soil dirt near the cropplant.
And it is undisputed that having mowed clippings near a cropplant
benefits the plant in both moisture and in nitrogen nutrients.


They also take nutrients out of the soil.

That is the purpose of farming the ConcreteBlock method in that the
weeds become the fertilizer. Everytime you go out and mow your lawn
and leave the grassclippings on the lawn you are fertilizing your lawn.

The ConcreteBlock will replace the tractor and all farm equipment.
And a farm will never again need to fertilize their fields. We want the
worst weeds in the world to come into our farmfields because the more
they grow is more clippings for our cropplants.


Farmers had horse drawn planters and cultivators before tractors. Tin
shields protected the plants as the cultivator shovels went by. The same is
true today with tractor drawn equipment.

I wonder if a grasstrimmer is more efficient than a lawnmower in the use
of gasoline per acre or hectare. Of course no damage must be done to concrete
block and I am unfamilar as to whether those grass trimmers would damage
a block with their plastic or metal wire. Something I would have to research
and a trimmer would be easier to go between block. What I do is line the
block into a row where one block touches another and it is easy for my
lawnmower to hug the outside wall and run straight down the row.

But I daresay that once the tomato plants are tall and vigorous that it will
be almost difficult to run the lawnmower down there. Worst yet for the
watermelon.


There used to be something called check planting. A wire was stretched
the length of the row. This wire had evenly spaced knobs or knots on it.
The planter would drop a seed at each knot. The wire had to be moved after
the planter completed a pass. This planting method would allow a field to
be cultivated east-west and north-south to help eliminate the weeds.
Crop rotation used to be regular practice. The U.S. Farm program and
economics put and end to that for awhile. Rotation is being practiced more
now since the Freedom to Farm Act (1996) and the invention of Roundup ready
soybeans.
There used to be migrant workers that would come through to weed the
soybeans before RR beans were invented. The workers did fine with their
hoes without an obstacle in the way.
What happens to your concrete enclosed plants in a heavy rain? That might
be something to test. What if a worker trips and bangs his head against one
of those blocks? I smell lawsuit. Just askin.

Dean

The whole point of ConcreteBlock Farming is to get rid of tractors and all
petrol
powered equipment. To use weeds and grass as fertilizer and so never again do
you need to buy any chemicals.

The ConcreteBlock becomes the Order for the farm instead of the tractor being
the Order. Instead of getting a field black soil with no plants except your
monoculture one plant, here we want weeds and grasses. We do not care what
weeds and grasses come. Send us your very worst weeds because we mow them
down and throw them onto our cropplant to utilize their moisture and fertilizer

content.

In our ConcreteBlock farming we produce all Organic food, the best food in the
world that you do not even have to wash but eat right off the cob. And our
ConcreteBlock farming loses no soil to the Mississippi River Basin such that
after 20 or 30 generations of farming the old petrol based way has all of its
topsoil way down into the Gulf Ocean basin. We do not poison any of our
land with chemicals, our food is Organic and chemical free and we lose no
topsoil. In fact, we gain in topsoil every year from the soil blown in from the

farmers due north and west of our farmland. So as they lose their topsoil every

year we gain it and gradually our farm becomes a hill. We lose no topsoil
because our ground is never exposed to the wind and rain that all petrol based
farming does.

Our farm cannot be big as the petrol based farmers because we have to mow
the weeds every summer so we cannot take care of thousands of acres but
100 acres is all we can manage. But that is okay because we are guardians
of the land who produce pure fresh safe organic food, we are not the strippers
of the topsoil that fills the Gulf Ocean floor.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
Dean Hoffman wrote:
(snipped what I wrote)


The ConcreteBlock will replace the tractor and all farm equipment.
And a farm will never again need to fertilize their fields. We want the
worst weeds in the world to come into our farmfields because the more
they grow is more clippings for our cropplants.

hey ho, we have the perpetual motion machine.

Jim Webster

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

On 5/26/03 1:54 AM, in article , "Archimedes
Plutonium" wrote:

Dean Hoffman wrote:
(snipped what I wrote)
Well, not really. That is mostly a assumption never really tested. Of course
in the desert of say Arizona or New Mexico where water really is critical
then any and all weeds are avoided.

But starting with the Grasslands and higher water regions I suspect that
assumption is false. I have noticed, but not run a full science test, that
when you have a dry spell on these Prairie grasslands. That a plant
surrounded by black dirt with no competing weeds nearby does more
poorly than does a plant surrounded by weeds which those weeds are
kept cut and trimmed to the ground. Why that is I cannot say for sure
in that the clippings do contain moisture which perhaps gets to the
desired crop plant or whether the soil with the weed roots undisturbed
retains more moisture than the tilled and hoed ground around the
crop plant.

I would guess that from Praire Grasslands on upwards to more
watery zones, that having clipped or mowed weeds nearby a
cropplant is far better than having black soil dirt near the cropplant.
And it is undisputed that having mowed clippings near a cropplant
benefits the plant in both moisture and in nitrogen nutrients.
That is the purpose of farming the ConcreteBlock method in that the
weeds become the fertilizer. Everytime you go out and mow your lawn
and leave the grassclippings on the lawn you are fertilizing your lawn.

The ConcreteBlock will replace the tractor and all farm equipment.
And a farm will never again need to fertilize their fields. We want the
worst weeds in the world to come into our farmfields because the more
they grow is more clippings for our cropplants.
I wonder if a grasstrimmer is more efficient than a lawnmower in the use
of gasoline per acre or hectare. Of course no damage must be done to concrete
block and I am unfamilar as to whether those grass trimmers would damage
a block with their plastic or metal wire. Something I would have to research
and a trimmer would be easier to go between block. What I do is line the
block into a row where one block touches another and it is easy for my
lawnmower to hug the outside wall and run straight down the row.

But I daresay that once the tomato plants are tall and vigorous that it will
be almost difficult to run the lawnmower down there. Worst yet for the
watermelon.
The whole point of ConcreteBlock Farming is to get rid of tractors and all
petrol
powered equipment. To use weeds and grass as fertilizer and so never again do
you need to buy any chemicals.

The ConcreteBlock becomes the Order for the farm instead of the tractor being
the Order. Instead of getting a field black soil with no plants except your
monoculture one plant, here we want weeds and grasses. We do not care what
weeds and grasses come. Send us your very worst weeds because we mow them
down and throw them onto our cropplant to utilize their moisture and
fertilizer

content.

In our ConcreteBlock farming we produce all Organic food, the best food in the
world that you do not even have to wash but eat right off the cob. And our
ConcreteBlock farming loses no soil to the Mississippi River Basin such that
after 20 or 30 generations of farming the old petrol based way has all of its
topsoil way down into the Gulf Ocean basin. We do not poison any of our
land with chemicals, our food is Organic and chemical free and we lose no
topsoil. In fact, we gain in topsoil every year from the soil blown in from
the

farmers due north and west of our farmland. So as they lose their topsoil
every

year we gain it and gradually our farm becomes a hill. We lose no topsoil
because our ground is never exposed to the wind and rain that all petrol based
farming does.

Our farm cannot be big as the petrol based farmers because we have to mow
the weeds every summer so we cannot take care of thousands of acres but
100 acres is all we can manage. But that is okay because we are guardians
of the land who produce pure fresh safe organic food, we are not the strippers
of the topsoil that fills the Gulf Ocean floor.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

My previous comments cut.

Think legumes inter-planted with the other crop. I don't think you'd
gain anything by letting weeds grow. That's just recycling nutrients at
best.
Ridge till and no till farming helps hold moisture and soil in place.
That's about the same as letting grass or weed clippings protect the soil.
Early tractor drawn equipment was just horse drawn stuff with a different
hitch. Old time farmers cultivated the weeds to kill them.


Dean



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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

On 5/26/03 4:22 AM, in article , "Jim
Webster" wrote:


"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
Dean Hoffman wrote:
(snipped what I wrote)


The ConcreteBlock will replace the tractor and all farm equipment.
And a farm will never again need to fertilize their fields. We want the
worst weeds in the world to come into our farmfields because the more
they grow is more clippings for our cropplants.

hey ho, we have the perpetual motion machine.

Jim Webster


Now that is a good analogy.



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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

Here in the USA, concreteblock of 16X8X8 cost about $1.20 apiece. So to
have an acre of these block spaced for the mower to go lengthwise and
widthwise is not cheap. But then again, paying for petrol and tractor and
all the other farm machinery and paying for herbicides and insecticides and
fertilizer are not cheap.

I remember a TV show about some NorthDakota farmers having trouble with
a weed that is costing them $80. per acre to spray with herbicides just to
control it. So the herbicide costs more than any viable crop. In the future,
there will be not just one of these weeds beyond the price of control but
many of them resistant to herbicides. This type of situation is a perfect
test for the ConcreteBlock method of farming. If we take that NorthDakota
infestation of $80 weeds fields and put concrete block spaced so that a
lawnmower can go through easily. Then we use that weed as a natural
fertilizer for the crop plant inside the block.

Archimedes,

I can give you some figures to begin comparing the costs of standard
farming methods vs. the concrete block method.

First of all, I calculated that a perfectly square acre could contain
a maximum of 17,528 8"x8"x16" concrete blocks, allowing a 3-foot space
in between for a mower. At $1.20 per block, it would cost $21,033.60
to purchase concrete blocks for one square acre.

I priced a new John Deere model 7810 150-hp row crop tractor, with no
extras, at $81,707. This is a mid-level model. I live and work in a
rural agricultural area and have observed that John Deere brand
tractors are quite popular with the local farmers. One would have to
add fuel costs, maintenance costs, and eventually the replacement
cost.

I found your $80/acre herbicide cost to be extremely high, perhaps the
farmers in question had a unique situation. Here are the annual
per-acre costs for some commonly used herbicides:

2,4-D: $1.40/acre
MCPA: $1.75/acre
Roundup (glyphosate): $6.90/acre
Sonalan (ethalfluralan): $9.18/acre

Of course, the actual herbicide(s) would depend on the particular crop
and what weed is to be killed.

It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would eliminate
the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable
alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for
pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually.

I am having difficulty quantifying the labor costs. Typical labor
costs per acre under the standard agricultural cultivation method are
about $340 per season. The concrete block method would be
substantially more labor intensive. Perhaps you could estimate the
number of labor hours required per acre and multiply by the estimated
wage.

For purposes of brevity I have omitted the sources of the figures and
the details of the calculations, however I could provide these on
request.

I hope the above information is helpful to you.

Best regards,
-Kevin

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

30 May 2003 09:53:38 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:
(snipped)


Archimedes,

I can give you some figures to begin comparing the costs of standard
farming methods vs. the concrete block method.

First of all, I calculated that a perfectly square acre could contain
a maximum of 17,528 8"x8"x16" concrete blocks, allowing a 3-foot space
in between for a mower. At $1.20 per block, it would cost $21,033.60
to purchase concrete blocks for one square acre.

Yes, Kevin, I believe how this is going to work best is not to make a huge
initial investment of buying alot of concreteblock but to start out small
and keep adding more block with future profits from the garden and farm.

I envision that organic farmers will make the switch faster than anyone else.
And for specialty growers such as tulips or other valuable specialities where
the concrete block is more of a modified "pot". Or a pot with its bottom
missing.



I priced a new John Deere model 7810 150-hp row crop tractor, with no
extras, at $81,707. This is a mid-level model. I live and work in a
rural agricultural area and have observed that John Deere brand
tractors are quite popular with the local farmers. One would have to
add fuel costs, maintenance costs, and eventually the replacement
cost.

Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find
out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their
homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings
and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer".

Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass
and weed mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn
in perpetuity? I just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors
are mostly salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies
and have spent the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single
one of them researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to
artificial fertilizer application.



I found your $80/acre herbicide cost to be extremely high, perhaps the
farmers in question had a unique situation. Here are the annual
per-acre costs for some commonly used herbicides:

Yes, thanks Kevin, that $80 figure was my best attempt at recall of the plight
of some NorthDakota farmers with a weed (forgotten its name -- spurge??--
don't hold me to that name). Anyway these NorthDakota farmers have a weed
that costs them more in herbicides than any crop yield return. And I am guessing
they make on average 60 dollars per acre on a crop return. So if the herbicide
costs more than 60 dollars then those NorthDakota farmers cannot plant a crop
there. But if they used the ConcreteBlock Method of farming then this weed is
a welcomed sight because we get out the mower and mow it down and it becomes
a fertilizer for the corn. In our method we welcome the most vigourous and fast
growing weeds because they give our crops more nitrogen fertilizer.



2,4-D: $1.40/acre
MCPA: $1.75/acre
Roundup (glyphosate): $6.90/acre
Sonalan (ethalfluralan): $9.18/acre

Of course, the actual herbicide(s) would depend on the particular crop
and what weed is to be killed.

Interesting, and mowing the ConcreteBlock Method of farming is not the
suburban style mowing but rather instead more like the mowing of alfalfa
about 4 or 5 times a year. And our mowing is mowing to as close to the
ground as possible and to have a mower that sprays the clippings up against
the concrete block so the crop gets the most clippings.

I estimate from my own acre of garden that it costs me about 10 dollars
per summer to mow. So, Kevin, if Roundup costs 7 dollars per acre, then
my mowing of 10 dollars per acre per summer (gasoline at 1.50 per gallon).
Then herbicide application in petrol-based farming matches the price of
just simply mowing your farm each year and the ConcreteBlock Method
needs no fertilizer. So I solved two problems in one. By mowing I solved
the need for herbicide and also solved the need for fertilizer.



It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would eliminate
the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable
alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for
pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually.

Wow, that is a high cost. I am not clear either as to the Optimal Strategy
for a Renewable pesticide program. ConcreteBlock Method faces the challenge
of pests just as Petrol-Based Farming. But Petrol based farming excerbates
pests with its huge fields of monocultures. Like an open invitation for swarms
of insects to eat up the crop. ConcreteBlock decreases pests because in the
planting their need not be a monoculture but a wide diversity of crop in the
field. Also, the farmfield will be much smaller in this method. Farmers can
no longer operate hundreds or thousands of acres unless they hire alot of
people. A farmfield in the ConcreteBlock Method would be 20 acres or less
per person farmer. So when a person tends and takes care of 20 acres, the
pest problem is vastly reduced. I know of many gardens that have pests
but the gardener never applies any poison pesticide.

Another alleviation of pests in the ConcreteBlock Method would be
to use biotech seed that is pest resistant. Renewable and Organic produce
is not antagonistic to biotech GMO plants that is pest resistant.



I am having difficulty quantifying the labor costs. Typical labor
costs per acre under the standard agricultural cultivation method are
about $340 per season. The concrete block method would be
substantially more labor intensive. Perhaps you could estimate the
number of labor hours required per acre and multiply by the estimated
wage.

Labor costs in Petrol-based farming is irrelevant because it is the petrol
and tractor that is creating farms of huge size where one person can farm it
all and where grain surpluses appear every year in the marketplace and why
corn is 2 dollars a bushel.

We need to reserve oil reserves for future generations. We need to
limit human population to no more than 2 billion persons at any one time.
And we need Agriculture farming that is Renewable.



For purposes of brevity I have omitted the sources of the figures and
the details of the calculations, however I could provide these on
request.

I hope the above information is helpful to you.

Best regards,
-Kevin

Kevin, in your above you say the rows are 3 feet apart. The most important
data I need at this time is how much grass/weed clippings in mowing is needed
for a row of corn so that it is fertilized during the summer? I need to know if
3 feet is the proper spacing. Of course some crops such as beans need less
fertilizing by clippings than does corn. I need to know if any scientists have
made that knowledge available.

How much grass/weed clippings equals a cupful of common fertilizer?

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Kevin Eanes wrote:



First of all, I calculated that a perfectly square acre could contain
a maximum of 17,528 8"x8"x16" concrete blocks, allowing a 3-foot space
in between for a mower. At $1.20 per block, it would cost $21,033.60
to purchase concrete blocks for one square acre.


Kevin, that number of 17,000 sounds a bit too high comparing my own
acre which has block on it. Acre is about 44,000 sq ft and consider a
block takes up about 1 sq ft I think that 10,000 block with 3 ft strips
of weeds/grasses to mow for fertilizer is more akin to my acre test
plot.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

JohnH wrote:

(Kevin Eanes) wrote in message . com...
SNIP It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would
eliminate
the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable
alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for
pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually.
SNIP
Best regards,
-Kevin

Pest reduction is achieved by dropping said concrete blocks on snails
unfortunatly the grasshoppers we have here just kick them back at you.
Regards
John

The concreteblock method is really misnamed. It is really the MowingMethod
for it combines two steps of the PetrolbasedFarmMethod. It combines
fertilizing with herbicide and eliminates both in the process of mowing between
crop rows. What I do not know at this moment in time is whether a strip
of legumes instead of weeds and grasses would provide a second cash
crop along with the soybeans and corn. I do not know if some legumes
would fertilize the corn and soybeans with their underground roots of
nitrogen fixing bacteria and whether the above ground clippings can be thus
sold as a second cash crop. Or whether the clippings are also needed for
fertilizer.

So no concreteblock are really needed if one uses the Mowing Method. But the
block will make the Mowing Method that much better. You could say perfect
the Mowing Method. A poor Peruvian farmer is not going to have the money
to invest in putting concrete block on his 20 acres but a Organic farmer in
Iowa with each yearly profits can begin to line rows of concrete block on his
20 acres and same for nearly all the farmers of Europe.

A NorthDakota farmer with weed spurge infestations cannot make a profit
since the cost of herbicide exceeds the crop sales. But if he planted his
rows so that he can mow between the crop and thus use the weeds as fertilizer
then those fields of infestation will yield him a yearly profit provided he
keep the mowing cost to a minimum.

The MowingMethod addresses pest control better than the Petrolbased
Method because in the mowing method we are not restricted to fields of monocultures. And that is really what
drives up the population of insect pests
when entire states have corn and soybean fields. Disaster from insect pests
and other pests is just an invitation for disaster when you have monocultures.

In the MowingMethod without Concreteblock you can diversify each farm
field with many different crops to reduce pests.

And the maximum of the MowingMethod which is to apply ConcreteBlock
you increase the number of spiders by very much since the spiders love that
block as a home to anchor on. Almost everyone of my block has resident spiders.

I am in favor of biotech seeds that are antipest plants. The corn that is anti
worm. So if these biotech seeds need a planting that is special from that of
the petrolbased farming then the concreteblock method maybe that protection
and added care that these specialty seeds need.

I acknowledge that the Mowing Method combines both fertilizing and herbicide
into one and eliminates those two, but that the Mowing Method still faces the
challenges of pest control that the Petrolbased Method deals with. However, the
Mowing Method with its ConcreteBlock application may not be pest free but
it reduces pests whereas the Petrolbased method increases pests.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

On 5/30/03 1:41 PM, in article , "Archimedes
Plutonium" wrote:

Some snipped.

Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find
out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their
homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings
and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer".

Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass
and weed mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn
in perpetuity? I just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors
are mostly salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies
and have spent the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single
one of them researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to
artificial fertilizer application.


More cut.

Can I butt in once more? I was listening to a show called AgPHD. They
were talking about controlling weeds in corn. They said studies show grass
even one inch tall will start to cut yields. They didn't say who did the
studies.
It's a pretty fair bet that anything affecting crop yields has been
studied. For example a planting depth of 2" is best for the development of
a corn plant's root system. There have been studies on the value of human
waste as fertilizer. One pound of nitrogen is needed for each bushel of
corn produced.
Farmers themselves test things. Did so and so pesticide work as well as
the old one? Was it cheaper? Did the application do enough good to justify
the cost?
Nutrients and water are removed from the land each time a crop is
harvested. Naturally they have to be replaced each year to maintain yields.

Dean




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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ...

Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find
out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their
homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings
and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer".

Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass and weed
mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn in perpituity? I
just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors are mostly
salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies and have spent
the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single one of them
researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to artificial fertilizer
application.

(snipped)

The most important data I need at this time is how much grass/weed clippings
in mowing is needed for a row of corn so that it is fertilized during the
summer? I need to know if 3 feet is the proper spacing. Of course some crops
such as beans need less fertilizing by clippings than does corn. I need to
know if any scientists have made that knowledge available.

How much grass/weed clippings equals a cupful of common fertilizer?

Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.

Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre

The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual
needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing,
(2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans
work well), and (3) the desired crop yield.

To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the
above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass
clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to
varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed
clippings.

I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could
obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio
of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to
calculate the optimal spacing.

Best Regards,
-Kevin

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:43:18 -0500 Dean Hoffman wrote:



Can I butt in once more? I was listening to a show called AgPHD. They
were talking about controlling weeds in corn. They said studies show grass
even one inch tall will start to cut yields. They didn't say who did the
studies.

A show such as that is more sales than it is science. There is some sprinkling
of science in that TV show but it is more prone to sales pitches and sales
convincing.

Here is a counterexample: I had corn some 2 years ago where one row
was kept in black dirt of hoeing and one row was on the border of a
patch of brome grass that I was often unable to cut the grass until it was
a foot tall and the endresult was that the yields from the black dirt corn
was not any different from the brome grass mowed row of corn. However,
there was a difference in disease between the blackdirt corn and the
grass infested corn in that the grass infested corn was less diseased
than the hoed corn. That white stuff that grows on the corn ears and
makes it look like popcorn was affecting the dirt grown corn whereas
the grassy grown corn seemed to be disease free. Perhaps disease
and insects when they see a monoculture field and so much dirt
exposed have an easier time of infestation than if they have a choice
between grass, weeds and the corn.


It's a pretty fair bet that anything affecting crop yields has been
studied. For example a planting depth of 2" is best for the development of
a corn plant's root system. There have been studies on the value of human
waste as fertilizer. One pound of nitrogen is needed for each bushel of
corn produced.

I doubt that any detailed ag study of where you combine herbicide with
fertilizing via Mowing and thus eliminate ever the need to apply herbicide
or to apply fertilizer was done. I mean a "detailed study" because it would
compete with the huge chemical herbicide and fertilizer companies which
comprise perhaps 1/2 of the entire agriculture business. Once farmers
never need to go to the store to buy herbicide or fertilizer then they need
seldom need the store at all.

Of course you increase the need of stores that sell and handle Mowers.


Farmers themselves test things. Did so and so pesticide work as well as
the old one? Was it cheaper? Did the application do enough good to justify
the cost?
Nutrients and water are removed from the land each time a crop is
harvested. Naturally they have to be replaced each year to maintain yields.

Commonsense should rule here. Most lawns in the USA are seldom if ever
fertilized yet they are nice and bright green and plush. The reason is because
they are mowed so often that they are self-fertilized. Plants have grown
on land for millions of years and billions of years before ever any human
ran around sprinkling fertilizer. There is a natural fertilizer cycle and it
involves
the use of plant clipping and plant decay to return nutrients to the soil.

Of course, when you make a field black exposed dirt every summer you need
to add artificial fertilizer. But when you have your field respond to the
natural
rythms of plant cycles of cut and clip and decay then fertilizer is a renewable

entity.

Farming via the petrolbased method where heavy machinery is the answer to
every problem on the farm is only a one or two century aberration of history.
A time period in which humanity has found huge oil reserves and like a kid in
a ice cream parlor allowed to eat anything. Someday soon in the future gasoline

prices will make it such that farming has to go renewable instead of this big
machine equipment and diesel solving problems.

Petrol based farming has been here only since about 1930 and I see its demise
sometime in the 21st century. Renewable farming has been here since prehistory
and soon it will start to crowd out petrolbased farming as the aberration of
history that it truly is.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

Kevin Eanes writes
A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

These look to me to be %age IN THE DRYMATTER.

Allowing a DM% of say 15% means your 3.5T of clippings should be
somewhere approaching 25T fresh.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

I think that one aspect of Mow farming compared to Petrolbased
farming that is overlooked is the amount of underground soil
activity of insects such as earthworms that the robin bird loves to
eat. I would hazard to guess that earthworm populations are a huge
contributor to the fertilization of plants and that a field farmed
via mowing has much more earthworm and insect activity as
fertilizer than a petrolbased farmed field.



Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre

The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual
needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing,
(2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans
work well), and (3) the desired crop yield.

I wonder whether the Amish and 19th century farming ever came to
a conclusion it was okay to let weeds and grass grow amoung their
corn so long as they kept them cut around 5 to 10 times per summer.



To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the
above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass
clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to
varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed
clippings.

Trying to get a mental picture of what 3.5 tons of grass is. I wonder
how many bails of hay that a person lifts is equivalent.



I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could
obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio
of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to
calculate the optimal spacing.

Best Regards,
-Kevin

My guess is that there are thousands of farmers in Europe and NorthAmerica
that already are farming or gardening using the Mower method and yet they
do not realize it. I would guess that most every backyard gardener seldom applies
any fertilizer to his/her crop and that they all mow the grass near their
garden.

I bet there are thousands of farmers who never use herbicides and who seldom
use fertilizer and who mow between their crop rows to keep it looking good and
not realizing that their mowing is fertilizing. So that if all of these farmers can
be polled, tallied and spoken to about their operation, that we have more data
and knowledge on MowerFarming than what we suspect.

Kevin, an interesting question is whether legumes such as alfalfa and clover
provide fertilizer to nearby corn and soybeans from their root systems and whether a farm can have two
simultaneous cash crops of corn and clover.
I have seen alfalfa only solo in fields and never corn and alfalfa together.
But if it is true that the alfalfa root system alone provides fertilizer to nearby
corn and that the cut alfalfa can be sold as a cash crop, then that would be
an added incentive to convert to the Mower Farming Method.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

why does that not surprise anyone.

Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't
actually have a use for it

Jim Webster

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:


Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.


I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I
do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take
an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing
to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots
underground.

Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K.

why does that not surprise anyone.

Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't
actually have a use for it

Jim Webster

Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
 

"Kevin Eanes" wrote in message
om...
Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message
...

Archimedes,

A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is:

N 2.16%
P 0.64%
K 2.00%


Hi Kevin. Is there any nitrogen in grass clippings? I thought only certain
plants (legumes??) could extract nitrogen from the air and 'fix' it into the
soil. Something like soybeans? Well, I guess any plant has *some* nitrogen
in its structure, but that just came from the soil in the first place didn't
it?

Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However,
the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will
change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I
could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds.

Typical corn fertilizer requirements a

N 80 lbs./acre
P 70 lbs./acre
K 120 lbs./acre


If I understand Archimedes' idea correctly, the grass clippings come from
the same field that the corn is planted in. Wouldn't this deplete the soil
of nutrients? Seems like taking nutrients in the form of corn ears out of a
field repeatedly would gradually deplete the soil. Farmers put nutrients
back into the field from animal waste or chemicals. Granted, Archimedes
probably won't live long enough to see his field turn into useless land, but
his off-spring will inherit the results of poor crop management??

Wasn't this part of what created the 'great dustbowl' during the depression?
A drought true, but overfarming the same crops year-after-year depleted the
soil?

But if the grass clippings are constantly recycled into the soil, then the
only nutrient loss is the harvested crop. And he has a point that the
'ecosystem' of worms, insects, etc... is probably much healthier than hoed
dirt, right??

just curious,

daestrom