Gordon Couger wrote:

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"sw" wrote in message
...
Oz wrote:

The hard thing to realise is they are in a catch twenty-two
situation. They only have just enough to live on now. But
what about next year and the one after that and the one
after that - when their wheat yields fall even more, when
they have to go 15km instead of 10 every day for wood, when
the old apple trees give up the ghost and havenâ?Tt been
replaced.

Sustainable????

Clearly not.

it certainly looks grim. The sensible thing to do in that sort of area is
for them to diversify out of food production, get jobs where their labour
will undercut European wage rates and buy food in.
Even a part time job that paid enough to let them get a proper diet would
help break the downward spiral.

Leaving his family behind or starving in slums near the city. Being poor in
a rural setting is bad it is worse in an urban one.


Yes. Ideally an aid agency would arrive with information and funding for
local schemes promoting alternative cropping strategies, low-tech water
retention, primary health care and education. Then at least the people
have a chance of producing sufficient food to feed themselves and their
children, and start to reduce the birth rate, which eventually means
they all have a better chance of finding the time and energy to invent
other projects earning money from outside the area. If someone flies in
and dumps a factory on them it might provide an opportunity to earn
cash, but it'll almost certainly be a starvation wage with no hope of
anything better.

regards
sarah


--
Waist deep, neck deep
We'll be drowning before too long
We're neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the damned fools keep yelling to push on

sw writes
Yes. Ideally an aid agency would arrive with information and funding for
local schemes promoting alternative cropping strategies, low-tech water
retention, primary health care and education. Then at least the people
have a chance of producing sufficient food to feed themselves and their
children, and start to reduce the birth rate, which eventually means
they all have a better chance of finding the time and energy to invent
other projects earning money from outside the area. If someone flies in
and dumps a factory on them it might provide an opportunity to earn
cash, but it'll almost certainly be a starvation wage with no hope of
anything better.

I often wonder if the pharoes didn't have the right idea.

When there is a famine, move in with large quantities of food and then
pay people in food to do major works.

A drought is an excellent time to do terracing, make reservoirs, dam
rivers (well, weir them anyway), build roads, schools, medical centres
and suchlike.

That way a drought could be used for good rather than harm.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line and just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but that it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours. What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their friends and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over some sort
of culture in milk?


Jim Webster

""David G. Bell"" wrote in message

I've seen the Aral sea from the air:-((

I'm surprised it's still visible.

When I saw it you could see succeeding shore lines, almost like looking down
on a contour map or the rings on a tree stump.



That is what you have to break away from. The grinding poverty which
doesn't
actually give you time to get away from your grinding poverty

This was the weakness of the CAP. For generally good reasons, it tried
to keep people in farming. When those reasons went away, the EU
politicians couldn't break the habit, and the whole mess of the MTR
comes from politicians being scared that people don't want to farm.


to a certain extent I can see why. In some member states, if you put half
the farmers onto the job market you would do serious things to the
unemployment statistics and get pretty big social/political problems. Do
this in the new entrants and it could get even more scary as one can imagine
the EU being blamed and a wave of anti-EU feeling in a lot of member states.

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but that it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours. What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but that it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours. What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby

In article ,
says...
Oz wrote:


How’s this for a business proposal for you: You give the company a $200
deposit. You get a jar of beads which you string onto fishing wire â€"
and in 20 days they pick up the 100, 20 cm strings you’ve made and they
give you your deposit back plus $94.


Bloody hell. I hope there *Is* a hell, with a special corner for people
who do that to the poor and desperate.

It happens in this country as well Sarah.

There are also those other scams that affect those with rather more money
- WEW [women empowering women] is one that comes to mind along with the
one a few years ago; Alchemy??

Wilst there are gullible people [through need or greed] people will make
money out of them.
--
David
Visit http://www.farm-direct.co.uk for your local farmgate food supplies.
FAQ's, Glossary, Farming Year and more!

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but that it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours. What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby


Yes, Michael, I noticed. No conversation is really complete without knocking
the yanks irregardless they are always there when needed.

Enron was an eye opener for many. I feel government is remiss in allowing
such immense wealth to be miss used in such cavalier manner. But as in the
case of your own government the greed entices then entraps those who could
stop the wrong doings.

Helping people as those in some of the 3rd world countries is often almost
impossible or very difficult. Due a fragile or inept infrastructure there
is often no workable line of communications to a centralized organization.
Often these people have less than the basic tribal structure. Dealing with
individuals is fruitless of course due to being a different looking intruder
with every move being suspect.

Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.

One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of
women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but that
it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here
only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours. What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their
family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their
friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme
is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over
some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby


Yes, Michael, I noticed. No conversation is really complete without
knocking
the yanks irregardless they are always there when needed.

And some are oh, so sensistive! I don't always mock Americans, honestly.
Sometimes I take the **** out of white folks, men, or even Protestants!!!
But in truth many of my best friends are white male protestants - for all
their faults :-)


Enron was an eye opener for many. I feel government is remiss in allowing
such immense wealth to be miss used in such cavalier manner. But as in
the
case of your own government the greed entices then entraps those who
could
stop the wrong doings.

But it's just like the bead thing. It might seem amazing to us that poor
folks will try and cheat each other, but it seems equally absurd that
people with almost unimaginable wealth will risk prison (or even death) to
cheat less wealthy people. What this ought to tell us is that such
behavoiur is entirely natural for many people.


Helping people as those in some of the 3rd world countries is often
almost
impossible or very difficult. Due a fragile or inept infrastructure
there
is often no workable line of communications to a centralized
organization.
Often these people have less than the basic tribal structure. Dealing
with
individuals is fruitless of course due to being a different looking
intruder
with every move being suspect.

Perhaps, though as African friends have told me there is also the "wise
white man effect" where apparently wealthy whites are trusted to run
businesses in Africa simply because they're white. It come as quite a
revelation to many that there are actually many really stupid whites.


Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.

One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

Michael Saunby

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of
women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line
and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but
that
it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here
only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours.
What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their
family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their
friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme
is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over
some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby


Yes, Michael, I noticed. No conversation is really complete without
knocking
the yanks irregardless they are always there when needed.

And some are oh, so sensistive! I don't always mock Americans, honestly.
Sometimes I take the **** out of white folks, men, or even Protestants!!!
But in truth many of my best friends are white male protestants - for all
their faults :-)


Enron was an eye opener for many. I feel government is remiss in
allowing
such immense wealth to be miss used in such cavalier manner. But as in
the
case of your own government the greed entices then entraps those who
could
stop the wrong doings.

But it's just like the bead thing. It might seem amazing to us that poor
folks will try and cheat each other, but it seems equally absurd that
people with almost unimaginable wealth will risk prison (or even death) to
cheat less wealthy people. What this ought to tell us is that such
behavoiur is entirely natural for many people.


Helping people as those in some of the 3rd world countries is often
almost
impossible or very difficult. Due a fragile or inept infrastructure
there
is often no workable line of communications to a centralized
organization.
Often these people have less than the basic tribal structure. Dealing
with
individuals is fruitless of course due to being a different looking
intruder
with every move being suspect.

Perhaps, though as African friends have told me there is also the "wise
white man effect" where apparently wealthy whites are trusted to run
businesses in Africa simply because they're white. It come as quite a
revelation to many that there are actually many really stupid whites.


Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.

One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

Michael Saunby

Actually the hydroponics growing systems are quite popular in the West and
produce a much larger portion of the fresh and perishables each year.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, all moving rapidly into hydroponics growing
systems. Holland, a leading grower of roses, does so hydroponically. A
gentleman in England during the 70's raised hopes for agriculture types with
his "glasshouse" experiments. The US Military has produced or encouraged
significant amounts of hydroponically produced food products since the 40's.
NASA devotes a considerable effort to devising hydroponic systems for
sustaining life in space.

Quite a significant portion of US home and hobby gardeners utilize
hydroponics for their family greens and vegetables. Hydroponics supply
houses are common in even rather small towns and provide a variety of quick
start systems.

If you import BC produce from Canada it will undoubtedly be hydroponically
grown. (Much better shipping and shelf life) England is at a disadvantage in
utilizing some of the "glasshouse" growing methods because of the cost of
utilities and compounded by the environment which requires more heat and
light supplemented to "glasshouse" crops.

Initial start up cost is the largest factor keeping extensive hydroponics
projects from becoming much more the norm. While rather technical in nature
to establish and maintain, labor is somewhat minimal. Many universities
worldwide are deeply involved in the development of hydroponic practices and
growing technique.

I may be repeating myself but EuroFresh in Arizona has 120-160 acres under
glass roof in one connected lay out and grows only hydroponic tomatoes. That
is a lot of tomatoes and especially when considering that several times the
volume is produced per year from a given area. It is only one of many
growers who take advantage of the high sunlight areas.

BC hothouse of Canada raises a variety of vegetables while many of the
Australian growers concentrate on lettuce and greens. US growers are
diversifying more as the other Western growers become very competitive.

World wide, flowers and ornamentals are becoming more widely grown
hydrological each year. The largest rose growing organization in this area
does so hydroponically. Orchids and many other difficult and pricey plants
respond well to hydroponics culture.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and accepted.

Thank you

James Curts

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of
women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line
and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but
that
it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here
only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours.
What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their
family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their
friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme
is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over
some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby


Yes, Michael, I noticed. No conversation is really complete without
knocking
the yanks irregardless they are always there when needed.

And some are oh, so sensistive! I don't always mock Americans, honestly.
Sometimes I take the **** out of white folks, men, or even Protestants!!!
But in truth many of my best friends are white male protestants - for all
their faults :-)


Enron was an eye opener for many. I feel government is remiss in
allowing
such immense wealth to be miss used in such cavalier manner. But as in
the
case of your own government the greed entices then entraps those who
could
stop the wrong doings.

But it's just like the bead thing. It might seem amazing to us that poor
folks will try and cheat each other, but it seems equally absurd that
people with almost unimaginable wealth will risk prison (or even death) to
cheat less wealthy people. What this ought to tell us is that such
behavoiur is entirely natural for many people.


Helping people as those in some of the 3rd world countries is often
almost
impossible or very difficult. Due a fragile or inept infrastructure
there
is often no workable line of communications to a centralized
organization.
Often these people have less than the basic tribal structure. Dealing
with
individuals is fruitless of course due to being a different looking
intruder
with every move being suspect.

Perhaps, though as African friends have told me there is also the "wise
white man effect" where apparently wealthy whites are trusted to run
businesses in Africa simply because they're white. It come as quite a
revelation to many that there are actually many really stupid whites.


Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.

One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

Michael Saunby

Actually the hydroponics growing systems are quite popular in the West and
produce a much larger portion of the fresh and perishables each year.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, all moving rapidly into hydroponics growing
systems. Holland, a leading grower of roses, does so hydroponically. A
gentleman in England during the 70's raised hopes for agriculture types with
his "glasshouse" experiments. The US Military has produced or encouraged
significant amounts of hydroponically produced food products since the 40's.
NASA devotes a considerable effort to devising hydroponic systems for
sustaining life in space.

Quite a significant portion of US home and hobby gardeners utilize
hydroponics for their family greens and vegetables. Hydroponics supply
houses are common in even rather small towns and provide a variety of quick
start systems.

If you import BC produce from Canada it will undoubtedly be hydroponically
grown. (Much better shipping and shelf life) England is at a disadvantage in
utilizing some of the "glasshouse" growing methods because of the cost of
utilities and compounded by the environment which requires more heat and
light supplemented to "glasshouse" crops.

Initial start up cost is the largest factor keeping extensive hydroponics
projects from becoming much more the norm. While rather technical in nature
to establish and maintain, labor is somewhat minimal. Many universities
worldwide are deeply involved in the development of hydroponic practices and
growing technique.

I may be repeating myself but EuroFresh in Arizona has 120-160 acres under
glass roof in one connected lay out and grows only hydroponic tomatoes. That
is a lot of tomatoes and especially when considering that several times the
volume is produced per year from a given area. It is only one of many
growers who take advantage of the high sunlight areas.

BC hothouse of Canada raises a variety of vegetables while many of the
Australian growers concentrate on lettuce and greens. US growers are
diversifying more as the other Western growers become very competitive.

World wide, flowers and ornamentals are becoming more widely grown
hydrological each year. The largest rose growing organization in this area
does so hydroponically. Orchids and many other difficult and pricey plants
respond well to hydroponics culture.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and accepted.

Thank you

James Curts

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...
Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.


I suspect that, at least in the UK, whether something is produced
hydroponically or not doesn't even figure in peoples thinking. I find that I
know so little about the glass house industry (which is a very specialised
branch of agriculture and really has almost nothing to do with the rest of
us) that I honestly wouldn't be able to say whether there is a proportion
that is hydroponically produced, or what that proportion might be.


One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

It is very difficult to work out when you move from local customs to down
right graft and corruption.

Jim Webster

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...
Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.


I suspect that, at least in the UK, whether something is produced
hydroponically or not doesn't even figure in peoples thinking. I find that I
know so little about the glass house industry (which is a very specialised
branch of agriculture and really has almost nothing to do with the rest of
us) that I honestly wouldn't be able to say whether there is a proportion
that is hydroponically produced, or what that proportion might be.


One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

It is very difficult to work out when you move from local customs to down
right graft and corruption.

Jim Webster

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...
.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are
simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very
few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life
saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and accepted.

Thank you

how does the capital cost of starting up a Hydroponics system compare with a
more conventional system?

Jim Webster

James Curts

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...
.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are
simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very
few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to
a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is
a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life
saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and
accepted.

Thank you

how does the capital cost of starting up a Hydroponics system compare with
a
more conventional system?

depends on the Hydroponics
There is the expensive what is used in commercial horticulture
and there is a very good set up that costs very little
ideal for the 3rd world but not been picked up and run with
- works on the basis of rain gutters or similar - a fair amount of perlite -
a solar pump - and some white and shiny plastic.
Unfortunately the only person to make this work extremely well is not in the
position to make this pay
but boy does it work

--
Jill Bowis

http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk http://www.henhouses.co.uk
http://www.domesticducks.co.uk http://www.poultry-books.co.uk
http://www.kintaline.co.uk/cottage

Jim Webster

James Curts