Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? In UK maize is more likely to be fed to beef animals as gluten than silage, maize silage is more likely to be used for high yielding dairy cows where any problems would be noticed pretty well instantly Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? In UK maize is more likely to be fed to beef animals as gluten than silage, maize silage is more likely to be used for high yielding dairy cows where any problems would be noticed pretty well instantly Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? In UK maize is more likely to be fed to beef animals as gluten than silage, maize silage is more likely to be used for high yielding dairy cows where any problems would be noticed pretty well instantly Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? In UK maize is more likely to be fed to beef animals as gluten than silage, maize silage is more likely to be used for high yielding dairy cows where any problems would be noticed pretty well instantly Then how about milk differences between grass-silage and corn-silage fed cows? Taste and keeping/nutritional qualities? |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: funny that tonnes of GM maize have been imported into Europe and no one has noticed any difference perhaps these differences only occur when witnessed by people a long way away? Then to see how much discrimination there is does the beef market note any difference between animals fed on maize silage vs grass silage? In UK maize is more likely to be fed to beef animals as gluten than silage, maize silage is more likely to be used for high yielding dairy cows where any problems would be noticed pretty well instantly Then how about milk differences between grass-silage and corn-silage fed cows? Taste and keeping/nutritional qualities? by the time milk has been pasturised, homogenised, standardised, you haven't a cat in hells chance of telling. Bigger difference between grass and silage, spring and winter than there is between various winter feeds. Remember that the nutrition of a high yielding dairy cow is a serious matter and carefully monitored. Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message Then how about milk differences between grass-silage and corn-silage fed cows? Taste and keeping/nutritional qualities? by the time milk has been pasturised, homogenised, standardised, you haven't a cat in hells chance of telling. Bigger difference between grass and silage, spring and winter than there is between various winter feeds. Remember that the nutrition of a high yielding dairy cow is a serious matter and carefully monitored. Linkname: Rapport-skabelon URL: http://www.agrsci.dk/ark/ARK-arsberetning2002_uk.shtml size: 213 lines [...] Over the last couple of years maize has become increasingly popular in the Danish silage production at the expense of grass because of a better profitability. Therefore studies have been initiated to investigate what consequences it has on different quality parameters of milk to feed dairy cows maize silage instead of grass silage. Milk from cows in an experiment with two groups of cows fed maize and grass silage, respectively, in a cross-over experimental design for 2 x 4 weeks was subsequently analysed for: * fatty acid composition * content of carotenoids * content of vitamin E Furthermore, we have analysed sensory characteristics in fresh and stored milk from the cows fed maize and grass silage, respectively. The results of these investigations show, that feeding with maize silage reduces the amount of the polyunsaturated fatty acid linolenic acid in the milk, and at the same time the content of vitamin E and beta-carotene is reduced with approximately 50% and 62%, respectively, compared to milk from cows fed grass silage. Both vitamin E and beta-carotene are important antioxidants that preserve the freshness of milk, and therefore it should be assumed that a great reduction of these antioxidants will reduce the shelf-life of milk as well as other dairy products considerably. The sensory analyses of the milk showed a significant difference between the taste of milk from cows fed maize silage compared with the milk from cows fed grass silage. Thus, the sensory panel described the milk from cows fed maize silage as creamy, sweet and tasting like corn flakes, which are all perceived as positive descriptors, whereas the panel used descriptors about the milk from cows fed grass silage that usually associate with negative tastes. [...] And other studies give grass-silage-fed cows as giving milk higher in the cancer-protective conjugated linolenic acid, and other matters. I used to notice the varying tastes in milk when I used it (pasteurised). A few years ago I noted that full cream non-homogenised bottled milk had started to have its top milk turned to butter by the time it was delivered. In earlier years it was possible to pour off the top milk. Perhaps corn feeding was increasing here? But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message Then how about milk differences between grass-silage and corn-silage fed cows? Taste and keeping/nutritional qualities? by the time milk has been pasturised, homogenised, standardised, you haven't a cat in hells chance of telling. Bigger difference between grass and silage, spring and winter than there is between various winter feeds. Remember that the nutrition of a high yielding dairy cow is a serious matter and carefully monitored. Linkname: Rapport-skabelon URL: http://www.agrsci.dk/ark/ARK-arsberetning2002_uk.shtml size: 213 lines [...] Over the last couple of years maize has become increasingly popular in the Danish silage production at the expense of grass because of a better profitability. Therefore studies have been initiated to investigate what consequences it has on different quality parameters of milk to feed dairy cows maize silage instead of grass silage. Milk from cows in an experiment with two groups of cows fed maize and grass silage, respectively, in a cross-over experimental design for 2 x 4 weeks was subsequently analysed for: * fatty acid composition * content of carotenoids * content of vitamin E Furthermore, we have analysed sensory characteristics in fresh and stored milk from the cows fed maize and grass silage, respectively. The results of these investigations show, that feeding with maize silage reduces the amount of the polyunsaturated fatty acid linolenic acid in the milk, and at the same time the content of vitamin E and beta-carotene is reduced with approximately 50% and 62%, respectively, compared to milk from cows fed grass silage. Both vitamin E and beta-carotene are important antioxidants that preserve the freshness of milk, and therefore it should be assumed that a great reduction of these antioxidants will reduce the shelf-life of milk as well as other dairy products considerably. The sensory analyses of the milk showed a significant difference between the taste of milk from cows fed maize silage compared with the milk from cows fed grass silage. Thus, the sensory panel described the milk from cows fed maize silage as creamy, sweet and tasting like corn flakes, which are all perceived as positive descriptors, whereas the panel used descriptors about the milk from cows fed grass silage that usually associate with negative tastes. [...] And other studies give grass-silage-fed cows as giving milk higher in the cancer-protective conjugated linolenic acid, and other matters. I used to notice the varying tastes in milk when I used it (pasteurised). A few years ago I noted that full cream non-homogenised bottled milk had started to have its top milk turned to butter by the time it was delivered. In earlier years it was possible to pour off the top milk. Perhaps corn feeding was increasing here? But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it Wow Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. Wow Wow |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? not s noticable proportion of the UK population When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully monitored If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. look at Torstens post, there has been no sudden large importation of maize Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? Yes If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? No As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I ignore the racoon story Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? not s noticable proportion of the UK population When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully monitored If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. look at Torstens post, there has been no sudden large importation of maize Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? Yes If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? No As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I ignore the racoon story Jim Webster |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? not s noticable proportion of the UK population So many are trying to coach down the quest for organic quality. When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully monitored Measured in quantity. I used to think that the processing was causing the trouble - that the milk would be being agitated more in processing so that the journey in the delivery truck would finish the churning to butter of the top milk. Now I am thinking of the different fatty acid composition of the BF because of feed. If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. look at Torstens post, Which post? My server has not had overseas groups for a few days. there has been no sudden large importation of maize Therefore it should be possible to check. Again: Linkname: GM Animal Feed URL: http://www.btinternet.com/~clairejr/Animal/animal.html size: 547 lines Ohio farmer Leon Ridzon does not grow GMOs, but he deals with farmers who do. He recounted local farmers' experience with Bt corn: "We first had problems three years ago, when famers planted Bt corn and the cows refused to eat it. The farmers had to camouflage it to get them to eat it." So waht sort of `camouflaging' was done and is it being done to maize before export to britain? Maybe these cows are just finicky? Ridzon says not - other animals won't eat Bt grain either: "The Bt corn was left on the cob and stored in an open bin. The rabbits would not touch it, the squirrels would not touch it. The rats and mice didn't go near it. It killed all the spiders in the bins." Ridzon has become increasingly suspicious about the possible toxicity of Bt corn. His testimony is the more remarkable for the fact that the norm for most Ohio farmers is intensively grown and chemically treated corn - which the animals apparently prefer to GM Bt corn. Ridzon confirms Sprinkel's account of reduced weight gain in Bt corn-fed cattle. He says farmers report that cattle need nine pounds of Bt corn to make a one pound weight gain as compared with only six of normal corn. Then that must not be because they eat less. Journalist Steven Sprinkel says that a major U.S. seed dealer told him that there is evidence that earthworms are dying as a result of the effects of Bt corn. Sprinkel comments, "This is not an activist promoting the notion that GMO plants have unpredicated results. It's a midwestern big seed dealer who would have more to gain by keeping quiet, and much to lose if he got caught in a liability cross-fire. So my assumption is that there is a big iceberg under these rumours and chit-chat. Reasonable people are asking reasonable questions." Waiting for science These reports from farmers and seed dealers can easily be dismissed as anecdotal evidence from which no conclusions can be drawn. But if we wait for the scientists to catch up, it could be too late. Scientific studies take years to do, and the majority are funded by industry or governments greased with biotech dollars. Who is going to fund a study which may find that a GM crop is toxic? Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? Yes Sure? If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? No Not before it was imported? As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I ignore the racoon story And Ridzon? |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? not s noticable proportion of the UK population So many are trying to coach down the quest for organic quality. When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully monitored Measured in quantity. I used to think that the processing was causing the trouble - that the milk would be being agitated more in processing so that the journey in the delivery truck would finish the churning to butter of the top milk. Now I am thinking of the different fatty acid composition of the BF because of feed. If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. look at Torstens post, Which post? My server has not had overseas groups for a few days. there has been no sudden large importation of maize Therefore it should be possible to check. Again: Linkname: GM Animal Feed URL: http://www.btinternet.com/~clairejr/Animal/animal.html size: 547 lines Ohio farmer Leon Ridzon does not grow GMOs, but he deals with farmers who do. He recounted local farmers' experience with Bt corn: "We first had problems three years ago, when famers planted Bt corn and the cows refused to eat it. The farmers had to camouflage it to get them to eat it." So waht sort of `camouflaging' was done and is it being done to maize before export to britain? Maybe these cows are just finicky? Ridzon says not - other animals won't eat Bt grain either: "The Bt corn was left on the cob and stored in an open bin. The rabbits would not touch it, the squirrels would not touch it. The rats and mice didn't go near it. It killed all the spiders in the bins." Ridzon has become increasingly suspicious about the possible toxicity of Bt corn. His testimony is the more remarkable for the fact that the norm for most Ohio farmers is intensively grown and chemically treated corn - which the animals apparently prefer to GM Bt corn. Ridzon confirms Sprinkel's account of reduced weight gain in Bt corn-fed cattle. He says farmers report that cattle need nine pounds of Bt corn to make a one pound weight gain as compared with only six of normal corn. Then that must not be because they eat less. Journalist Steven Sprinkel says that a major U.S. seed dealer told him that there is evidence that earthworms are dying as a result of the effects of Bt corn. Sprinkel comments, "This is not an activist promoting the notion that GMO plants have unpredicated results. It's a midwestern big seed dealer who would have more to gain by keeping quiet, and much to lose if he got caught in a liability cross-fire. So my assumption is that there is a big iceberg under these rumours and chit-chat. Reasonable people are asking reasonable questions." Waiting for science These reports from farmers and seed dealers can easily be dismissed as anecdotal evidence from which no conclusions can be drawn. But if we wait for the scientists to catch up, it could be too late. Scientific studies take years to do, and the majority are funded by industry or governments greased with biotech dollars. Who is going to fund a study which may find that a GM crop is toxic? Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? Yes Sure? If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? No Not before it was imported? As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I ignore the racoon story And Ridzon? |
Animals avoid GM food
Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences between cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed. stop being silly we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are monitoring high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against predicition is a cause for major investigation. Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities, won't they? not s noticable proportion of the UK population So many are trying to coach down the quest for organic quality. When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the pudding. BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully monitored Measured in quantity. I used to think that the processing was causing the trouble - that the milk would be being agitated more in processing so that the journey in the delivery truck would finish the churning to butter of the top milk. Now I am thinking of the different fatty acid composition of the BF because of feed. If GM feed had any effect at all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been spotted and its effects detailed Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for human consumption. look at Torstens post, Which post? My server has not had overseas groups for a few days. there has been no sudden large importation of maize Therefore it should be possible to check. Again: Linkname: GM Animal Feed URL: http://www.btinternet.com/~clairejr/Animal/animal.html size: 547 lines Ohio farmer Leon Ridzon does not grow GMOs, but he deals with farmers who do. He recounted local farmers' experience with Bt corn: "We first had problems three years ago, when famers planted Bt corn and the cows refused to eat it. The farmers had to camouflage it to get them to eat it." So waht sort of `camouflaging' was done and is it being done to maize before export to britain? Maybe these cows are just finicky? Ridzon says not - other animals won't eat Bt grain either: "The Bt corn was left on the cob and stored in an open bin. The rabbits would not touch it, the squirrels would not touch it. The rats and mice didn't go near it. It killed all the spiders in the bins." Ridzon has become increasingly suspicious about the possible toxicity of Bt corn. His testimony is the more remarkable for the fact that the norm for most Ohio farmers is intensively grown and chemically treated corn - which the animals apparently prefer to GM Bt corn. Ridzon confirms Sprinkel's account of reduced weight gain in Bt corn-fed cattle. He says farmers report that cattle need nine pounds of Bt corn to make a one pound weight gain as compared with only six of normal corn. Then that must not be because they eat less. Journalist Steven Sprinkel says that a major U.S. seed dealer told him that there is evidence that earthworms are dying as a result of the effects of Bt corn. Sprinkel comments, "This is not an activist promoting the notion that GMO plants have unpredicated results. It's a midwestern big seed dealer who would have more to gain by keeping quiet, and much to lose if he got caught in a liability cross-fire. So my assumption is that there is a big iceberg under these rumours and chit-chat. Reasonable people are asking reasonable questions." Waiting for science These reports from farmers and seed dealers can easily be dismissed as anecdotal evidence from which no conclusions can be drawn. But if we wait for the scientists to catch up, it could be too late. Scientific studies take years to do, and the majority are funded by industry or governments greased with biotech dollars. Who is going to fund a study which may find that a GM crop is toxic? Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then? Yes Sure? If not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to improve palatability? No Not before it was imported? As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter telling them that racoons will not eat it So you ignore it and the other animals. tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I ignore the racoon story And Ridzon? |
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