Brian Sandle wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200
Brian Harmer
wrote:
*****
NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY
-------------------------------------

The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health
effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite
receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to
asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in
Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor
associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of
Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the
programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and
Forestry if they are deemed serious enough.
*****

The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

Brian Sandle wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200
Brian Harmer
wrote:
*****
NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY
-------------------------------------

The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health
effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite
receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to
asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in
Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor
associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of
Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the
programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and
Forestry if they are deemed serious enough.
*****

The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

Brian Sandle wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200
Brian Harmer
wrote:
*****
NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY
-------------------------------------

The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health
effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite
receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to
asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in
Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor
associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of
Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the
programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and
Forestry if they are deemed serious enough.
*****

The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Brian Sandle wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200
Brian Harmer
wrote:
*****
NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY
-------------------------------------

The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health
effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite
receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to
asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in
Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor
associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of
Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the
programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and
Forestry if they are deemed serious enough.
*****

The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?


This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop
duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water
flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then
deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of
diseased and dying residents was overwhelming

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:23:34 GMT, Mooshie peas
wrote:

On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Brian Sandle wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200
Brian Harmer
wrote:
*****
NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY
-------------------------------------

The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health
effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite
receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to
asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in
Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor
associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of
Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the
programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and
Forestry if they are deemed serious enough.
*****

The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?


This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop
duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water
flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then
deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of
diseased and dying residents was overwhelming

And cotton crops are often sprayed to kill the leaves prior to the
bolls being harvested.

Cath

The spray is Bt.



with all due respect the spray is not BT.
the active ingredient is BTk.
98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are
methyl paraben
(methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate,
propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid,
and polyacrylic acid.

The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already
publicly known.


all harmless by themselves but some people react badly to this combination
in a very fine aerosol when inhaled

Mooshie peas wrote:


This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop
duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water
flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then
deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of
diseased and dying residents was overwhelming

I have had breathing troubles from some brands of grape juice. Some of
them use a sulphur compound as preservative.

To make water purple with grape juice would take quite a lot, and
breathing such is not normal, and might provide a medium for bacteria to
grow, too.

Yes nocebo(?) effects can occur, as with Pavlov's dogs, but escape or
constriction gets attached to certain signals.

And I think you will find some people suffering and bearing it rather than
be called susceptible to psychogenic factors. The website Brian Harmer
referred to links to results of a big study which includes trouble with
animlas, too, greater than what I would say could be transferred in
sympathy with their owners worries.

In nz.general cp1c wrote:

The spray is Bt.



with all due respect the spray is not BT.
the active ingredient is BTk.

Yes, Bt kurtaski.

98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are
methyl paraben
(methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate,
propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid,
and polyacrylic acid.

The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already
publicly known.

The water would be the main component.

I agree the other components could be a problem. For me hydrochloric acid
is a bit of a constrictor. Polyacrylic acid looks a problem. As I have
posted on sci.med.dentistry rabbits exposed to acrylic acid vapour get
nasal inflammation. Maybe there is a connection to the bad dermatitis on
hands of dental technicians who frequently work with methacrylates. Then
di-methacrylate, a basis in much modern white dental filling material, is
a very potent sensitizer. (di being `two' - on the way to `poly'.)

all harmless by themselves

Not for all people.

but some people react badly to this combination
in a very fine aerosol when inhaled

And animals.

Some people are advised to use a mask when dealing with soil and Btk is a
soil bacteria.

In reply to another poster yes the cotton could have had herbcide applied
to dry it out prior to harvest. Roundup has been used to dry out some
crops prior to harvest. Then the question is what do the farmers use as a
`dessicant' if the crop is genetically engineered to be Roundup resistant.

I have posted an article with `byssinosis' in the title and it may not
have appeared on all servers on the groups in the header, but I see it has
got on nz.general on my server.

A ref I gave asks whether a GM herbicde tolerant crop turns the herbicde
into a toxic degradation product which may increase byssinosis lung
disease of cotton workers.

Then the question is whether washing would wash
that out. But it could not wash out the Bt or herbicide degradation
protein which I presume are a part of the fibre structure and which would
touch against lung tissue.

It might be intersting to do immune reaction tests on workers. They have
shown positive on Auckland people exposed to the spray.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:24:59 +1200, "cp1c" wrote:


The spray is Bt.



with all due respect the spray is not BT.
the active ingredient is BTk.
98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are
methyl paraben

Methylparaben has been around for years and is in many products that
you probably handle every day.
It is added to products for longer shelf life.

(methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate,
propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid,
and polyacrylic acid.

The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already
publicly known.


all harmless by themselves but some people react badly to this combination
in a very fine aerosol when inhaled

Why should people react to a combination when you state all harmless
by themselves? Does not make sense.


Cath

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

It is for the boll worm not the weevil. The weeviel is reltivly easy to
conrol pest as it only feeds on cotton and proper management and a spraying
in the fall to reduce the over winter weevil and a spray in the spring to
catch any you missed and scouting wiht traps has effectivly made them a non
problem in two or three year every where as good faith effort has been made.

The boll worm or corn ear worm depending on what crop it is eating eats
almost any thing and can be held in bay in some cases by natrual preditors
but if you have to spray in the fruiting season for boll weevil you run the
risk or wiping out the benificials an spraying every 4 to 7 days for the
rest of the season for the boll worm.

Get your bugs right.

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more
lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

There is no protien in cotton fiber, It is all celulose.

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

If you get very much cotton in your lungs smaller than two microns you have
problems do a search on ginners lung. The BT protein would be broken down by
the body while the cotton fiber would not be.

You need better wind mills.

Gordon

The spray is Bt.
with all due respect the spray is not BT.
the active ingredient is BTk.
Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are [...]
methyl paraben
Methylparaben has been around for years and is in many products that
you probably handle every day.

Unless you're allergic to it, which a lot of people are. Benzoates
are often a cross-reacting allergen with salicylates, and salicylate
allergy is one of the commoner ones.

Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed
to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people
get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit. Since
asthma is the usual problem from this group of allergens, a spray-
delivered product would be virtually certain to give some folks a lot
of grief - hits the reacting site a damn sight more efficiently than
any food could.

Parabens get into an extraordinary range of products and can be very
difficult to avoid. Who'd expect an allergy that started out with
apples and aspirin to end up making you sensitive to dental plastics?

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:49:38 +0000, bogus address wrote:

Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed
to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people
get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit.


What fruits naturally contain salicylate?

I can understand it if they were chewing willow bark...

On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote:


The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily
basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for
spraying, surely?

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by
chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up.
Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted
cynics may respond.).

http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html

Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for
this anomaly.

Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis
from Bt resistant cotton? On a cursory scan I can see nothing
(unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have
done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can
see on Bt).

I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please).

Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a
lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached
loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the
proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees.

Steve B.

Steve B wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote:


The spray is Bt.

Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to
resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted.

So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily
basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for
spraying, surely?

Isn't it witches don't like applying water?

Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye
irritation than non-Bt cotton?

I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly
absorbed and some broken down a bit?

If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than
for non-Bt?

Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by
chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up.
Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted
cynics may respond.).

http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html

[...]
Monday morning syndromes stemming from occupational exposure to toxic
substances have also been described in cardiology. One of the best
known is "Monday Morning Sudden Cardiac Death" among dynamite
manufacturing workers, most likely due to acute re-exposure to nitrate
esters upon return to work after a brief period of absence
[...]
from
Linkname: Proposed Agenda for OC
URL:
http://www.workhealth.org/Occ.%20Car...0for%20OC.html
size: 1268 lines

Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for
this anomaly.

Apparently steam treatment of the cotton fibre is protective. Is it
killing bacteria which grow over the weekend, or moistening the cotton
fibers or otherwise making them stick into larger bundles?

Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis
from Bt resistant cotton?

discussed on `byssinosis' thread.

On a cursory scan I can see nothing
(unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have
done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can
see on Bt).

Who is going to bother to research it?

Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents
to get paid for their contracts?

I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please).

Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a
lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached
loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the
proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees.

I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome.
Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some
people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder.

Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed
to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people
get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit.
What fruits naturally contain salicylate?

Almost all of them. See the list on my website.

I can understand it if they were chewing willow bark...

Willow bark doesn't. It contains salicin, a chemical precursor of
salicylate (probably cross-reactive with it in allergic people but
I'm guessing).

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.