Way too much information here. My problem with them has less to do with
their non-indigenous and invasive nature and more to do with their shallow
roots and history of busting up roofs in houses I inhabit. :-)

http://www.rice.edu/projects/reno/Ne...2_tallow.shtml

http://www.au.gardenweb.com/forums/l...501722388.html

http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenerg...tallowtree.htm

http://www.service.com/PAW/morgue/re....GARDEN00.html

http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~opa/sallypo...ometallow.html

True story. We used to live in Southeast Texas, where the invasive
Chinese Tallow is widely considered to be a noxious weed. When walking
around in our yards, we habitually pulled up sprouting tallow trees,
much as one would pull up any weed. As a courtesy, we would do the
same in our neighbor's yards or when visiting friends.

One of my circle (call him Bob) was visiting in Arizona and stayed at
an RV park. As the evening softened, Bob took a stroll around the
campground and habitually pulled up a few tallow trees. The owner saw
him and threw a fit! he had planted the worthless things and paid good
money for them at a nursery.

Bob promised to send him a dozen or so decent sized tallow trees by
express mail as soon as he returned home, and did.

Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

After years in Houston watching the crappy Tallow weed out beautiful species
(and/or valuable plants like Bluestem) (including Cypress with knees
sticking up a foot or two twenty feet from the trunk) I sure hate to hear
of someone planting them on purpose!

Every time I fish under them at Lake Travis I wish I could just cut them on
down and use them for a camp fire! I mean, come on...the Cedars (Juniperus
Ashii) took over when the new-to-the-area whites cut down all the trees 150
years ago. Now, Tallow, with enough water, will take over from the Cedars!

sigh

Guess we'll permanently change the land several times before the local
ecology finds some way of putting up with us.

John


"Elliot Richmond" wrote in message
...
True story. We used to live in Southeast Texas, where the invasive
Chinese Tallow is widely considered to be a noxious weed. When walking
around in our yards, we habitually pulled up sprouting tallow trees,
much as one would pull up any weed. As a courtesy, we would do the
same in our neighbor's yards or when visiting friends.

One of my circle (call him Bob) was visiting in Arizona and stayed at
an RV park. As the evening softened, Bob took a stroll around the
campground and habitually pulled up a few tallow trees. The owner saw
him and threw a fit! he had planted the worthless things and paid good
money for them at a nursery.

Bob promised to send him a dozen or so decent sized tallow trees by
express mail as soon as he returned home, and did.

Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

Howdy folks,
In regards to this message:

I mean, come on...the Cedars (Juniperus
Ashii) took over when the new-to-the-area whites cut down all the trees 150
years ago. Now, Tallow, with enough water, will take over from the Cedars!

sigh

Guess we'll permanently change the land several times before the local
ecology finds some way of putting up with us.

I found one of the most interesting histories of the changes in the
ecology of the Texas Hill country over the last 150 years in an
unexpected place. The first volume of Robert Caro's Bio epic of Lyndon
Johnson, "The Path to Power" ( at the library ) had a 100 or so pages
on the early Hill country and the changes that happened in terms of
the grazing of the native grasses, the loss of topsoil and the arrival
of the invasive plants. In addition a lot of interesting info on the
development of the dam system, and the creation of the Highland lakes.

It's hard to imagine that the Hill country not long ago had top
soil held together by grasses. In a generation ( Lyndon's Dad ) the
land was grazed by introduced cattle, lost the grasses that held it
together and the soil eroded away.
It's not just the hill country, of course, but I once read excerpts
at the Austin History center from the diary of one of the first anglo
settlers at Big Bend who wrote about having a hard time getting
through the shoulder high grasses that covered the area. Grasses that
would also be grazed away.

As far as Tallows go, get your money back, and be aware it's
likely not the only plant you might come across in a nursery that you
should avoid planting. Also be aware that once we get up into the
nineties some of those lovely plants you see for sale might be getting
watered two or three times a day to keep them from flopping over, and
if you take them home can go down in the heat while you are away at
work. I never could figure out how a hanging basket of New Guinea
Impatiens that needed to be watered twice a day in the shade at a
nursery was supposed to survive hanging from someone's porch.


Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

I would tend to take those accounts with a grain of salt. Anecdotal.


"Steve Coyle" wrote in message
om...
Howdy folks,
In regards to this message:

I mean, come on...the Cedars (Juniperus
Ashii) took over when the new-to-the-area whites cut down all the trees
150
years ago. Now, Tallow, with enough water, will take over from the
Cedars!

sigh

Guess we'll permanently change the land several times before the local
ecology finds some way of putting up with us.

I found one of the most interesting histories of the changes in the
ecology of the Texas Hill country over the last 150 years in an
unexpected place. The first volume of Robert Caro's Bio epic of Lyndon
Johnson, "The Path to Power" ( at the library ) had a 100 or so pages
on the early Hill country and the changes that happened in terms of
the grazing of the native grasses, the loss of topsoil and the arrival
of the invasive plants. In addition a lot of interesting info on the
development of the dam system, and the creation of the Highland lakes.

It's hard to imagine that the Hill country not long ago had top
soil held together by grasses. In a generation ( Lyndon's Dad ) the
land was grazed by introduced cattle, lost the grasses that held it
together and the soil eroded away.
It's not just the hill country, of course, but I once read excerpts
at the Austin History center from the diary of one of the first anglo
settlers at Big Bend who wrote about having a hard time getting
through the shoulder high grasses that covered the area. Grasses that
would also be grazed away.

As far as Tallows go, get your money back, and be aware it's
likely not the only plant you might come across in a nursery that you
should avoid planting. Also be aware that once we get up into the
nineties some of those lovely plants you see for sale might be getting
watered two or three times a day to keep them from flopping over, and
if you take them home can go down in the heat while you are away at
work. I never could figure out how a hanging basket of New Guinea
Impatiens that needed to be watered twice a day in the shade at a
nursery was supposed to survive hanging from someone's porch.


Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

Howdy folks,
In regards to this message:


"Mark J" wrote in message ...
I would tend to take those accounts with a grain of salt. Anecdotal.


Well, yes. At the Austin History Center, and other locations
around town that collect historic source material, diaries, personal
papers, old newspapers are by their nature 'Anecdotal'. In contrast,
there are examples of physical evidence like, the time my wife who was
doing museum exhibit work got to aim Sam Houston's gun ( not at me,
thank goodness ). But most of the materials we use to construct the
historical record are by their nature 'anecdotal'
It's the job of the historian to weigh the merits of 'anecdotal'
evidence against other evidence to come up with some sort of
description of the time. Our picture of the changes in the flora in
Central Texas are based on the cumulative descriptive 'anecdotal'
evidence ,of diaries, drawings,letters etc.

Combine that with how it jibes with what we know, about the
processes of soil erosion, grazing stress of live stock and the
movement of invasive plants and we can create a good historic view
within the ever present limits of our knowledge.

Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com