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Old 28-07-2005, 07:30 AM
Sacha
 
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On 28/7/05 0:00, in article , "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

martin wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:00:25 +0100, Sacha
wrote:



The 'poverty' you cite as the 'reason' that the British don't

travel
around their own country, would no doubt account for the hordes of
packages holiday makers flying out of Britain every year, bound

for
worldwide destinations!


Oddly it's much cheaper to do that, than to have a holiday in

England.
Hotel prices in UK are higher than in most other places in the

world.

I don't know what your interest is in trying to show this country

as
some kind of hand-to-mouth world, composed almost entirely of
impoverished stay-at-homes but your arguments are not exactly
compelling and your information seems to be rooted in the 1920s or
30s or even the Wilson years of no more than 30 to be taken

abroad
- which led to the development of package holidays in the first
place. Your outlook is sadly old-fashioned and out of date.


Package holidays predated Harold Wilson.


As, indeed, did the limit on money to be taken abroad; though ISTR it
had been lifted for a while.


I must be mis-remembering but I though I remembered his government imposing
the very small travel allowance. I certainly remember going abroad in my
school years and arrangements to travel, hotel bookings and methods of
payment all being negotiated separately and not pre-paid before leaving
home, for example.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


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Old 28-07-2005, 09:25 AM
Sue Begg
 
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In message , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from "Harold Walker" contains these words:


"
I think you meant you saw more of England than most English see in a
year (a somewhat strange claim; how in the space of two weeks do you
know what "most" English do in 52? ). But your little trip round just
*one* country doesn't really count as seeing "more of the UK".

Janet.


If you know anything at all about logistics you would readily see/know that
the majority of the UK residents (English + permanent interlopers) see very
little of the UK in a year...they just do not have the money....perhaps
someone like you might have the 'lolly' to roam around but there are many
that do not live in such luxury and scrape from hand to mouth each
week..


..no different in this country....


entirely different from America. In the US, 90 % of the population don't
own a passport and have never travelled abroad.


Is it worth mentioning the fact that the US is so vast that they don't
need to go abroad. They can get to visit almost any type of climate they
wish and travel much further than most Brits do on their travels, within
the US

In the UK, the vast
majority of people do have a passport and have used it to travelled
abroad. The majority of UK residents are not impoverished, and are in
work. For that work they disperse all over the country to live; many
people travel for work reasons and far more travel to see family
elsewhere.

Incidentally, The UK does not mean England., as you imply above

over a lifetime I suspect I might
have seen more of England than you have me love....


Since you know absolutely nothing about my lifetime, that's just
another example of you not having a clue what you're on about.

Janet.


--
Sue
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  #78   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 09:55 AM
Mike
 
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but life here looks
better, feels better and certainly is better than in the 50' and 60's.


I have to disagree with you on this point as far as 'life is better'.

'Financially' far, far, far better, but I think that the 'pace' of life has
eroded some of the things we enjoyed in the 50's and the 60's.

"Would I like to be a teenager now, compared to when I was a teenager?" No,
the outside pressure on the teenager today is far greater than the 50's and
the 60's in the way of the 'latest must have gizmos'

Moving to the Adult, yes he/she has more 'possessions', TV with umty dozen
channels to switch off, car/s in the family, foreign holidays/cruises which
has already been mentioned and the 'pressures' from the children 'Johnny up
the road has a new bike, can I have one?' and whereas it was 'just a bike'
in my parent's day, these days it computers/holidays/cars/the 'in' clothing
etc etc etc

Sorry, I preferred the 'rate' of the 50's and the 60's. 50 years ago my road
of about 24 houses, had 'possibly' one car in it. (According to a neighbour
who has lived in the house for all of his 68 years) We now have many houses
with 2, 3 and even 4 cars/vans. Sitting here and counting from 'thought',
there are at least 31. Calculate the pressures there of finding somewhere to
park, getting out onto the main road, which is equally crowded, the speed
which we travel at ..... slow:-(( In the 50's I could get from Sandown to
Cowes in just over 40 minutes by train. Now, no train, just under an hour.

Yes I enjoy the 'wealth' of today, but not the 'pace', and by that I mean
pressure and frustration as in the above example of being held up, and I
know a lot of older people will agree with me, because this is a discussion
I have had time and time again.

Mike




  #79   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 10:25 AM
Nick Maclaren
 
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In article ,
Sue Begg writes:
|
| Is it worth mentioning the fact that the US is so vast that they don't
| need to go abroad. They can get to visit almost any type of climate they
| wish and travel much further than most Brits do on their travels, within
| the US

It is also worth mentioning that both are common myths.

Firstly, it has only a few climate types - a hell of a lot more
than the UK, but many less than the British Empire (over which
the sun never set, natch).

Secondly, most people in the USA don't even leave their vicinity
(which may be physically large, but is often very homogeneous).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
  #80   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 10:48 AM
Harold Walker
 
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I must be mis-remembering but I though I remembered his government
imposing
the very small travel allowance. I certainly remember going abroad in my
school years and arrangements to travel, hotel bookings and methods of
payment all being negotiated separately and not pre-paid before leaving
home, for example.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Either you went to school well after I did or you were blessed with an
abundance of cash...in my days a day's outing at the beach 40 miles away was
a 'big thing'...even bigger was the weekly pass that allowed us to go to the
seaside each day but not stay overnight or a week's holiday at
relatives....but those were fun days of playing in the streets without, as
Mike points out, loads of speeding cars and the likes....the only schoolboys
at 'my school' that enjoyed holidays abroad were the 'toffs'....I was but a
scholarship kid at a public school and being of a "working class family"
money did not exactly grow on a tree but also admit I never knew what an
empty tummy felt like....what money that was available went to food and
clothing...my school years were in the late 30's to early
40's.....personally I would readily exchange the living conditions of
yesteryear for today's and forego the wealth of today.....I have been broke
many a time in my lifetime but never poor.....now that I am not poor from a
money point of view I feel poorer than in my youth for reasons stated
above.....H





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Old 28-07-2005, 10:54 AM
Harold Walker
 
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over a lifetime I suspect I might
have seen more of England than you have me love....


Since you know absolutely nothing about my lifetime, that's just
another example of you not having a clue what you're on about.

Janet.


..........Me thinks otherwise.....I may have left England a number of years
ago but have remained a reader of your newspapers over the years and now
that Drudge Report so conveniently allows me to read the London Times, the
Telegraph and the Guardian each morning I do think I have a clue as to what
is going on in England...unless of course the newspaper are full of you know
what...H


  #82   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:02 AM
Harold Walker
 
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"Dave Poole" wrote in message
...
Dammit! I was determined to stay out of this. but...


No more.

Can we now get back to discussing gardening in the UK please?
Dave Poole


Of course if people ignore this thread it will cease to exist but curiosity
being what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  #83   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:05 AM
Harold Walker
 
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"martin" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:54:53 -0400, "Harold Walker"
wrote:


.........Me thinks otherwise.....I may have left England a number of years
ago but have remained a reader of your newspapers over the years and now
that Drudge Report so conveniently allows me to read the London Times, the
Telegraph and the Guardian each morning I do think I have a clue as to
what
is going on in England...unless of course the newspaper are full of you
know
what...H


Aren't all newspapers?
--
Martin


Much more so than the editors would ever admit....at least yours are more
readable than most of ours.


  #84   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:06 AM
BAC
 
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Harold Walker" contains these words:

Kay wrote


OK, I apologise.
In that case, I just think you are wrong ;-)


me think not...also agreed
with by a few I met over there...aint like it used to be and will
never be
the same..


I hope they won't. Back in the good old days in 1950's industrial
Lancashire winters were blighted with thick filthy smog.


But, looking on the bright side, there was very little black spot on the
roses in urban gardens in those days :-)


  #85   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:16 AM
BAC
 
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"Harold Walker" wrote in message
...


snip


.....I was but a
scholarship kid at a public school and being of a "working class family"
money did not exactly grow on a tree


Do you think that experience in your formative years might go some way to
explaining your apparent preoccupation with the British 'class system'?




  #86   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:39 AM
Mike
 
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....I was but a
scholarship kid at a public school and being of a "working class family"
money did not exactly grow on a tree


Do you think that experience in your formative years might go some way to
explaining your apparent preoccupation with the British 'class system'?


Not a preoccupation, just a very aware fact that there 'is' a class system
in this country and it is alive and well.

Mike


  #87   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 11:58 AM
Mike Lyle
 
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Harold Walker wrote:
"Dave Poole" wrote in message

[...]
Can we now get back to discussing gardening in the UK please?
Dave Poole


Of course if people ignore this thread it will cease to exist but
curiosity being what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OK. Not UK, but when I occasionally look in on US gardening groups I
notice a desperate preoccupation with the difficulties of keeping a
lawn going in various extreme conditions. It interests me, as in some
of the situations described I wouldn't even _try_ . In Oz we had a
reasonable front lawn, but at the back we just had coarse stuff
called buffalo grass. What have you observed over there, Harold?

--
Mike.


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Old 28-07-2005, 12:10 PM
Rusty Hinge
 
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The message
from "Harold Walker" contains these words:

I might very well be wrong but somehow suspect some similar conditions
might
be around the coal area of Yorkshire with the closing down of the pits....I
hear many families without an income other than gov.support....perhaps I
hear wrong....I have not 'surveyed' areas like Birmingham but would suspect
some unsavoury conditions there....believe you me, for every one I suspect
exists in the UK I could name a dozen in this country....I do not deny the
truth nor cover it.....H


That's not my impression of such areas I know of.

--
Rusty
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who read binary and
those who don't.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
  #89   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 12:11 PM
Rusty Hinge
 
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The message
from martin contains these words:

mumbles shoe box in the gutter ....


Ee lad, 'appen tha were reet looky...

--
Rusty
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who read binary and
those who don't.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
  #90   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2005, 12:19 PM
Kay
 
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In article , Sue Begg
writes
Is it worth mentioning the fact that the US is so vast that they don't need to
go abroad. They can get to visit almost any type of climate they wish


I must admit that when I have travelled, it has been to experience a
different culture and way of life rather than to seek a different
climate.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"



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