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#1
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Is This Dangerous ?
My new neighbour has relocated a row of Raspberries to up against the wall
of her garage so they can be watered by rain dripping off from the roof......(No gutters on the roof) However, the roof is asbestos and when I pointed out that there might be a danger from asbestos being taken up by the plants, either thro the roots, leaves or fruit, she was quite certain that it was not possible for asbestos to be absorbed in this way and there was no danger to her family eating the fruit in future years. She may be right, I don't know, perhaps I'm being over concerned and am totally wrong, but I certainly wouldn't take the risk and I'm very worried that she's placing her family in danger from ingesting cancer causing toxins. Whets the general opinion on this ? |
#2
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The problem with asbestos is the dust getting into the lungs where it
can cause cancer. I don't think it is dangerous in the way your neighbour is using the water after all many waterbutts are filled from roofs with asbestos, I know mine is. |
#3
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"vsop" wrote in message ... My new neighbour has relocated a row of Raspberries to up against the wall of her garage so they can be watered by rain dripping off from the roof......(No gutters on the roof) However, the roof is asbestos and when I pointed out that there might be a danger from asbestos being taken up by the plants, either thro the roots, leaves or fruit, she was quite certain that it was not possible for asbestos to be absorbed in this way and there was no danger to her family eating the fruit in future years. She may be right, I don't know, perhaps I'm being over concerned and am totally wrong, but I certainly wouldn't take the risk and I'm very worried that she's placing her family in danger from ingesting cancer causing toxins. Whets the general opinion on this ? She is right - worry not ! Pete www.thecanalshop.com |
#4
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But the possibility exists. as does seeing Lord Lucan ride up Pall Mall on Shergar or Elvis Presley skiing behind the Loch Ness monster. There is more danger in crossing the road or having an accident in the house, so don't get out of bed in the morning and for Christ sake don't put your bed on casters and ask someone to push you across the road. Cotton Wool PC state :-(( and to think we were once GREAT Britain :-(((((((((((((((((( |
#5
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You worry too much.
She is far more likely to get blown up by terrorists. "vsop" wrote in message ... My new neighbour has relocated a row of Raspberries to up against the wall of her garage so they can be watered by rain dripping off from the roof......(No gutters on the roof) However, the roof is asbestos and when I pointed out that there might be a danger from asbestos being taken up by the plants, either thro the roots, leaves or fruit, she was quite certain that it was not possible for asbestos to be absorbed in this way and there was no danger to her family eating the fruit in future years. She may be right, I don't know, perhaps I'm being over concerned and am totally wrong, but I certainly wouldn't take the risk and I'm very worried that she's placing her family in danger from ingesting cancer causing toxins. Whets the general opinion on this ? |
#6
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Peter Stockdale wrote:
"vsop" wrote in message ... My new neighbour has relocated a row of Raspberries to up against the wall of her garage so they can be watered by rain dripping off from the roof......(No gutters on the roof) However, the roof is asbestos and when I pointed out that there might be a danger from asbestos being taken up by the plants, either thro the roots, leaves or fruit, she was quite certain that it was not possible for asbestos to be absorbed in this way and there was no danger to her family eating the fruit in future years. She may be right, I don't know, perhaps I'm being over concerned and am totally wrong, but I certainly wouldn't take the risk and I'm very worried that she's placing her family in danger from ingesting cancer causing toxins. Whets the general opinion on this ? She is right - worry not ! Pete www.thecanalshop.com Absolutely. The only way a plant can take anything up is when it's dissolved in water, and asbestos is insoluble. That's partly why it persists in animals' lungs. I suppose there could be a slight risk if particles get washed onto the fruit by the rain: nobody would dare say there's no risk at all; but it certainly couldn't get there through the roots. (Helped my father build an asbestos-clad shed back in the fifties! Gulp!) -- Mike. |
#7
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Mike wrote:
But the possibility exists. as does seeing Lord Lucan ride up Pall Mall on Shergar or Elvis Presley skiing behind the Loch Ness monster. There is more danger in crossing the road or having an accident in the house, so don't get out of bed in the morning and for Christ sake don't put your bed on casters and ask someone to push you across the road. Actually accidents at home are much more common than you might think! Cotton Wool PC state :-(( and to think we were once GREAT Britain :-(((((((((((((((((( Don't be too hard on him. The spelling of "fibers" (sic) guarantees this wonderful piece of scare mongering comes from the other side of the pond where lawyers make mega-bucks by flying in the face of common sense. Over there the bottom of every milk bottle would have to be stamped "open other end". And microwave ovens marked "not for drying pets". Unless the roof is mainly blue asbestos and you burn the shed down the risk to the rasberries watered by the rainwater runoff is neglible. Bound up in asbestos board the stuff isn't anything like as nasty but disturb or break up the binding material and then there is serious hazard. Disturb it without the right protective equipment and all bets are off. Last time I was at the tip I saw a council operative put this stuff into a crusher on the back of a bin wagon (a very very bad idea). He was showered in dust from it. And they had a genuine asbestos waste zone! I guess he didn't know it was asbestos board... Regards, Martin Brown |
#8
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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Absolutely. The only way a plant can take anything up is when it's dissolved in water, and asbestos is insoluble. That's partly why it persists in animals' lungs. I suppose there could be a slight risk if particles get washed onto the fruit by the rain: nobody would dare say there's no risk at all; but it certainly couldn't get there through the roots. (Helped my father build an asbestos-clad shed back in the fifties! Gulp!) -- Mike. I used to work in a steel heat treatment factory where asbestos wool was commonly used as an insulator. I used to have to stuff it into the required areas - masks were optional ! (the sixties) Gulp, Gulp !!! Pete |
#9
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I used to work in a steel heat treatment factory where asbestos wool was commonly used as an insulator. I used to have to stuff it into the required areas - masks were optional ! (the sixties) Gulp, Gulp !!! Pete I worked in a shipyard in the Boiler Rooms of the ships being built. Pipes being lagged with dry asbestos and wet asbestos, stuff mixed up with water to apply in great handfulls. we had snowball fights with the stuff. Masks? What were they? 1950's and much to the owners of the newsgroup I am still here. PC State gone tooooo far |
#10
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Mike wrote:
I used to work in a steel heat treatment factory where asbestos wool was commonly used as an insulator. I used to have to stuff it into the required areas - masks were optional ! (the sixties) Gulp, Gulp !!! Pete I worked in a shipyard in the Boiler Rooms of the ships being built. Pipes being lagged with dry asbestos and wet asbestos, stuff mixed up with water to apply in great handfulls. we had snowball fights with the stuff. Masks? What were they? 1950's and much to the owners of the newsgroup I am still here. PC State gone tooooo far What a relief to read the sane views of a trained epidemiologist. Personally, I find my radium watchchain is not only a great talking-point at parties but has contributed enormously to my general health. -- Mike. |
#11
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Don't be too hard on him. The spelling of "fibers" (sic) guarantees this wonderful piece of scare mongering comes from the other side of the pond where lawyers make mega-bucks by flying in the face of common sense. Over there the bottom of every milk bottle would have to be stamped "open other end". And microwave ovens marked "not for drying pets". You ought to try living here. Talk about being "once Great Britain"---try putting up with living in what was once the freeest nation on earth. Don't be too hard on us, though. Most of us love the UK side of the pond, and the possiblilties for changing back 'round over here are limitless. |
#12
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In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote: Mike wrote: I used to work in a steel heat treatment factory where asbestos wool was commonly used as an insulator. I used to have to stuff it into the required areas - masks were optional ! (the sixties) I worked in a shipyard in the Boiler Rooms of the ships being built. Pipes being lagged with dry asbestos and wet asbestos, stuff mixed up with water to apply in great handfulls. we had snowball fights with the stuff. Masks? What were they? 1950's and much to the owners of the newsgroup I am still here. PC State gone tooooo far What a relief to read the sane views of a trained epidemiologist. That is exactly what the asbestos experts say. There was a furore after jobs with such negligible protection but using BLUE asbestos killed several people, so our wonderful, so-scientific Lords and Masters introduced regulations that treated all asbestos the same way. This has since then supported the economy by requiring expensive removal contracts for the massive amounts of the almost harmless white asbestos. We got the same thing recently when new regulations place the same conditions on the carriage of compressed nitrogen and argon/nitrogen as on compressed hydrogen or compressed chlorine. Yes, really. Yes, white asbestos is harmful if you breath it, but only a little more than glass fibre (one of its replacements) and, if I understand, LESS than road tar fumes. Personally, I find my radium watchchain is not only a great talking-point at parties but has contributed enormously to my general health. Doubtless. The use of radioactives in watches was abolished because it was applied by hand and the workers used to lick the end of their brushes to dampen them. Even bulk radioactives are unimportant until you ingest them. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#13
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"Scott L. Hadley" wrote in message news Don't be too hard on him. The spelling of "fibers" (sic) guarantees this wonderful piece of scare mongering comes from the other side of the pond where lawyers make mega-bucks by flying in the face of common sense. Over there the bottom of every milk bottle would have to be stamped "open other end". And microwave ovens marked "not for drying pets". You ought to try living here. Talk about being "once Great Britain"---try putting up with living in what was once the freeest nation on earth. Don't be too hard on us, though. Most of us love the UK side of the pond, and the possiblilties for changing back 'round over here are limitless. Just spent a couple of weeks in what once was "Great Britain".....would not give tuppence for living there now....it aint what it used to be and not by a long shot....I used to love to ride the trains to see the beautiful looking gardens at the back of the houses along the railroad tracks....no more....most of them looked ugly with huge weed patches and broken down greenhouses etc....looks as tho the pride that once was there has gone elsewhere.....walked around a couple of other weed patches that the locals called 'allotments'. Perhaps one day it will rule the waves again. |
#14
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On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:30:15 +0000 (UTC), "vsop"
wrote: My new neighbour has relocated a row of Raspberries to up against the wall of her garage so they can be watered by rain dripping off from the roof......(No gutters on the roof) However, the roof is asbestos and when I pointed out that there might be a danger from asbestos being taken up by the plants, either thro the roots, leaves or fruit, she was quite certain that it was not possible for asbestos to be absorbed in this way and there was no danger to her family eating the fruit in future years. She may be right, I don't know, perhaps I'm being over concerned and am totally wrong, but I certainly wouldn't take the risk and I'm very worried that she's placing her family in danger from ingesting cancer causing toxins. Whets the general opinion on this ? Your neighbour is right. It's the physical presence of asbestos particles that causes cancer. Asbestos minerals (and there are several types, see below), have a fibrous structure. The individual crystals grow in the form of long thin filaments. When these are ingested, most commonly as dust into the lungs, the body attempts to get rid of them by enclosing them in a scavenger cell (a macrophage IIRC) and then dissolving them. Asbestos fibres are too long to be enclosed completely, and persist. The repeated but unsuccessful attempts of the body to get rid of them eventually result in the formation of a tumor. But a lot depends on the type of asbestos. The general impression given is that it's all the same stuff, which it isn't. There are two types commonly used by industry and met with by the general public: white asbestos (the mineral chrysotile) and blue asbestos (the mineral crocidolite, aka fibrous riebeckite). They are entirely different minerals, with different chemical properties and crystalline structures. The only thing they really have in common is their fibrous nature. Most asbestos-cement products made since the 1960's contain white asbestos only, at about the 10% level IIRC. White asbestos dissolves slowly in acid, which means it can and may dissolve in the stomach (but whether it remains there for long enough, I don't know). The resulting products are harmless (and also occur in many pharmaceutical preparations). It can also dissolve in the lungs, although much more slowly than in the stomach as the acidity is very much less. Residence times in the lungs are in the order of 6 to 12 months, I believe. Consequently, white asbestos is less of a hazard than other types because it can dissolve and doesn't persist for long enough for tumors to form. However, prolonged exposure to high concentrations can result in cancers. The asbestos deposits in Quebec are of this type, and claims by the workers for compensation nearly bankrupted parts Lloyds insurance a couple of decades ago. OTOH the really nasty stuff is blue asbestos, extensively used in thermal insulation and fire-proof fabric because of its longer filaments. It is not readily dissolved in acid and will persist e.g. in the lungs for many years, eventually causing tumors to form. But it takes a long time. Anything ingested by mouth moves quite rapidly through the intestines and is excreted within a few days, so I'd be surprised if even blue asbestos caused stomach or intestinal cancers. If it has been shown conclusively that blue asbestos does cause such cancers, it must surely be only after exposure to high concentrations over a long period. Cement products made in the late 1940's and 1950's sometimes contained a blend of white and blue asbestos, so inhaling the dust from them could be potentially harmful. As there's no simple way of knowing whether your old asbestos-cement shed contains just white asbestos, or a blend of blue and white, it's sensible to treat all old asbestos- cement as being potentially hazardous, and take appropriate precautions when handling it. There are other hazardous forms of 'asbestos' (e.g brown asbestos and tremolite, both related to the blue variety IIRC), but these are rarely encountered commercially. I should add that I have no specific expertise in the field of asbestos. But I spent my career working for a company involved in the mining of finely powdered white minerals from all over the world. Inevitably one picked up a certain amount of background information on the hazards of mineral dusts in general, including asbestos. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
#15
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"Harold Walker" wrote in message ... .. Just spent a couple of weeks in what once was "Great Britain".....would not give tuppence for living there now....it aint what it used to be and not by a long shot....I used to love to ride the trains to see the beautiful looking gardens at the back of the houses along the railroad tracks....no more....most of them looked ugly with huge weed patches and broken down greenhouses etc....looks as tho the pride that once was there has gone elsewhere.....walked around a couple of other weed patches that the locals called 'allotments'. Perhaps one day it will rule the waves again. Sad. I spent two glorious weeks in southern and western England in 1990---most of us looked up to that land as a garden heaven---a place where some of us US garden types got our inspiration. And learning. I certainly did, before our trip and during. And I noticed the patches of flowers in the most unlikely places, as you mention. To think things have slid so far in the intervening 15 years---We'll be back again eventually. Some things must have lasted--- |
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