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Old 10-08-2005, 10:02 PM
David Rance
 
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Default The Oak of the Six Brothers

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. When we returned
home I did a search on Yahoo and, although the one we saw is not listed
anywhere, indeed there are others like it that are listed. There is one
in Burgundy which looks very similar to the one that we saw. The link to
that one is:

http://www.onf.fr/FORET/flore/arbremark/freres.htm

We have also found others with five and four divisions, all known as
"brothers".

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?

Foolishly I didn't have my camera with me. Next time I shall!

Fascinated but perplexed!

David

P.S. What's happened to the urg contributor who lives near Bagnoles? I
haven't seen any posts from her recently and, unfortunately, I can't
remember her name.

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Old 10-08-2005, 10:22 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
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Default

In article ,
David Rance wrote:
While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Lots of them.

When a tree like an oak has its growing shoot removed, it will regrow
with any number of new ones. It is rare for this to be more than two
or three, if the young shoot is eaten by an animal, but it can be
quite a lot if a half-grown-tree is struck by lightning or otherwise
broken off.

People also used to pollard oaks deliberately, though coppicing was
more common, because the 4-6" shoots were extremely valuable for
firewood, charcoal, building etc. See Rackham on this.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 10-08-2005, 10:50 PM
Sacha
 
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Default

On 10/8/05 21:02, in article , "David Rance"
wrote:

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. When we returned
home I did a search on Yahoo and, although the one we saw is not listed
anywhere, indeed there are others like it that are listed. There is one
in Burgundy which looks very similar to the one that we saw. The link to
that one is:

http://www.onf.fr/FORET/flore/arbremark/freres.htm

We have also found others with five and four divisions, all known as
"brothers".

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?

Foolishly I didn't have my camera with me. Next time I shall!

Fascinated but perplexed!


Pollarding? The French seem to pollard trees a great deal.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

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Old 11-08-2005, 09:39 AM
David Rance
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Lots of them.

When a tree like an oak has its growing shoot removed, it will regrow
with any number of new ones. It is rare for this to be more than two
or three, if the young shoot is eaten by an animal, but it can be
quite a lot if a half-grown-tree is struck by lightning or otherwise
broken off.

People also used to pollard oaks deliberately, though coppicing was
more common, because the 4-6" shoots were extremely valuable for
firewood, charcoal, building etc. See Rackham on this.


Thanks, Nick and Sacha, for your replies. I don't think that it's
pollarding and the theory of cutting off the leader to provide
side-shoots had also occurred to us. But there does seem to be more to
it than that. The six branches don't grow out at an angle which is what
you would normally expect when the leader is damaged in some way, they
grow straight up rather like the columns of a classical temple.

When we go that way again (probably again next Sunday to visit our
favourite tea-shop!) I'll make sure I have my camera with me and see if
I can take a better picture than the one I referred to - in that one you
can see only about three of the branches.

We have a couple of young oaks here in our garden, one in honour of the
birth of our first grandchild born nearly eleven years ago. Charlie's
Oak has been nibbled frequently by sheep in the past but we've got rid
of them now so there should be plenty of branches that we can train.
I'll let you know in about fifty years' time whether we have been
successful!

David

--
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Le Mesnil Villement, |
| BBS:
telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Calvados, France |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


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Old 11-08-2005, 10:03 AM
Nick Maclaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

Thanks, Nick and Sacha, for your replies. I don't think that it's
pollarding and the theory of cutting off the leader to provide
side-shoots had also occurred to us. But there does seem to be more to
it than that. The six branches don't grow out at an angle which is what
you would normally expect when the leader is damaged in some way, they
grow straight up rather like the columns of a classical temple.


Why shouldn't it be pollarding? And the side shoots DO grow up
vertically from the top when a tree is pollarded.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


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Old 11-08-2005, 10:59 AM
Martin Sykes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

"David Rance" wrote in message
...
Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its main
trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are


I don't know how it was done but I imagine if you planted six acorns in a
hexagon with a foot between them then after a 100 years they would look like
one tree with six leaders.

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )


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Old 11-08-2005, 12:35 PM
sarah
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Rance wrote:

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Thanks, Nick and Sacha, for your replies. I don't think that it's
pollarding and the theory of cutting off the leader to provide
side-shoots had also occurred to us. But there does seem to be more to
it than that. The six branches don't grow out at an angle which is what
you would normally expect when the leader is damaged in some way, they
grow straight up rather like the columns of a classical temple.


Some years ago I had the pleasure of producing illustrations for English
Nature's _Veteran Trees: a guide to good management_. The list of
veteran tree types includes 'bundle planting', trees grown from two or
more seedlings/plants (often, but not always, the same spp) grown in
very close proximity. What you describe could have developed from a
bundle of six -- apparently the trunks become semi-fused and it may be
very difficult indeed to work out precisely how many trees were in the
group to start with.

"Reasons for planting bundles are not always known, but broadly speaking
three main types can probably be distinguished:
+ a naturally occurring bundle, the result of an accident of seed fall
or an animal burying a cache of seeds that then germinate.
+ a forester planting trees who slips several in a hole together to
finish the task quicker [sic]
+ the result of a planned decision to create a bundle or multi-stemmed
tree. This can be for several reasons, for example:
- for landscape purposes, often in designed landscapes to create a wide
spreading crown more quickly. For example it was recommended by Evelyn
in the 17th century and is a technique known to landscapers.
- for agricultural purposes. In some wood-apstrues a few bundles can be
found. This may of course be accidental but it has been suggested that
they might have been deliberately managed to confer distinct benefits,
eg produce seed (when all the other trees around them were pollarded
regularly and did not)."

I'd add the obvious one that EN missed: a commemorative planting.

regards
sarah

--
Think of it as evolution in action.
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Old 14-08-2005, 07:21 PM
David Rance
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , sarah
writes

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Some years ago I had the pleasure of producing illustrations for English
Nature's _Veteran Trees: a guide to good management_. The list of
veteran tree types includes 'bundle planting', trees grown from two or
more seedlings/plants (often, but not always, the same spp) grown in
very close proximity. What you describe could have developed from a
bundle of six -- apparently the trunks become semi-fused and it may be
very difficult indeed to work out precisely how many trees were in the
group to start with.


Thanks, Sarah, for your most interesting information. We went back to
see the oak again today and what you say about a bundle having been
planted appears to be correct. When you suggested that I thought that it
wasn't likely as one would expect to see some fluting of the main trunk
and I couldn't remember seeing that.

However, looking again at the tree, the main trunk *is* fluted and it
looks as though originally there may have been about eight
saplings/acorns in the bundle. I took several photographs and I've
uploaded one of them to my web site. It's about 100k but shows the tree
in some detail. Higher up there are branches sticking out at strange
angles and there is evidence of quite a bit of pruning back in order to
keep the unusual shape. Also we noticed that other trees growing in
front of it have been cut down recently which is why we have never
noticed it until this year. The URL for the photo is:

http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk/photos/6_brothers_oak.JPG

Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around the
tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?

David

--
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Le Mesnil Villement, |
| BBS:
telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Calvados, France |
+------------------------------------------------------------+




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Old 14-08-2005, 08:17 PM
Jaques d'Alltrades
 
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Default

The message
from David Rance contains these words:

Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around the
tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?


I'd go for planting as a ring of saplings.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
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Old 14-08-2005, 09:11 PM
Mike Lyle
 
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Default

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
The message
from David Rance contains these
words:

Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around
the tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of

acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?


I'd go for planting as a ring of saplings.


Technical query. If a tree were coppiced early in life, might the
shoots not grow together in the same way if subsequently left alone?

--
Mike.


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Old 14-08-2005, 09:19 PM
Janet Baraclough
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The message
from David Rance contains these words:

In message , sarah
writes

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and
is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Some years ago I had the pleasure of producing illustrations for English
Nature's _Veteran Trees: a guide to good management_. The list of
veteran tree types includes 'bundle planting', trees grown from two or
more seedlings/plants (often, but not always, the same spp) grown in
very close proximity. What you describe could have developed from a
bundle of six -- apparently the trunks become semi-fused and it may be
very difficult indeed to work out precisely how many trees were in the
group to start with.


Thanks, Sarah, for your most interesting information. We went back to
see the oak again today and what you say about a bundle having been
planted appears to be correct. When you suggested that I thought that it
wasn't likely as one would expect to see some fluting of the main trunk
and I couldn't remember seeing that.


However, looking again at the tree, the main trunk *is* fluted and it
looks as though originally there may have been about eight
saplings/acorns in the bundle. I took several photographs and I've
uploaded one of them to my web site. It's about 100k but shows the tree
in some detail. Higher up there are branches sticking out at strange
angles and there is evidence of quite a bit of pruning back in order to
keep the unusual shape. Also we noticed that other trees growing in
front of it have been cut down recently which is why we have never
noticed it until this year. The URL for the photo is:


http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk/photos/6_brothers_oak.JPG


Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around the
tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?


Probably the latter. There's someone in the UK who produces very
complex "living sculptures" from native trees grown that way then
shaped, or the stems plaited together by grafts etc. IIRC It's a very
old tradition with possibly some pagan origin. I had his website url on
the old computer but don't think I transferred it to this one.

Also, people sometimes used to grow saplings and graft them together
to create an angle they required for tools, door and wall frames
etc..you might find a web reference.

Janet.
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Old 14-08-2005, 10:00 PM
sarah
 
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Default

David Rance wrote:

In message , sarah
writes

While out for a drive on Sunday in the beautiful Norman countryside we
came across an unusual oak quite close to the town of Bagnoles de
l'Orne. At about head height the main trunk splits into six and is known
as the Chęne des Six Frčres. Struck by the strangeness of this
phenomenon we wondered whether it was a freak of nature or whether it
had been persuaded to grow in this way for some reason. ...

Can anyone tell me how it's possible to persuade an oak to divide its
main trunk in this way? It is certainly an arresting sight. Also are
there any similar examples in the UK? Third question: why do people do
it?


Some years ago I had the pleasure of producing illustrations for English
Nature's _Veteran Trees: a guide to good management_. The list of
veteran tree types includes 'bundle planting', trees grown from two or
more seedlings/plants (often, but not always, the same spp) grown in
very close proximity. What you describe could have developed from a
bundle of six -- apparently the trunks become semi-fused and it may be
very difficult indeed to work out precisely how many trees were in the
group to start with.


Thanks, Sarah, for your most interesting information. We went back to
see the oak again today and what you say about a bundle having been
planted appears to be correct. When you suggested that I thought that it
wasn't likely as one would expect to see some fluting of the main trunk
and I couldn't remember seeing that.

However, looking again at the tree, the main trunk *is* fluted and it
looks as though originally there may have been about eight
saplings/acorns in the bundle. I took several photographs and I've
uploaded one of them to my web site. It's about 100k but shows the tree
in some detail. Higher up there are branches sticking out at strange
angles and there is evidence of quite a bit of pruning back in order to
keep the unusual shape. Also we noticed that other trees growing in
front of it have been cut down recently which is why we have never
noticed it until this year. The URL for the photo is:

http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk/photos/6_brothers_oak.JPG


It is impressive, isn't it? Very similar to one of the pictures I was
given to work from :-) I suspect the area's been cleared to ensure that
passers-by pay proper attention.

Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around the
tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?


Could be either, I think. If our squirrel had been more artistic, we'd
have a multi-stemmed hazel in our lawn this year!

regards
sarah


--
Think of it as evolution in action.
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Old 14-08-2005, 10:00 PM
sarah
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike Lyle wrote:

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
The message
from David Rance contains these
words:

Also, I would mention that there are masses of saplings all around
the tree. Would the tree originally have grown from a bunch of

acorns
(either planted by a human or a squirrel), or would they have been
planted as saplings?


I'd go for planting as a ring of saplings.


The 'bundle' technique doesn't require a ring, just (apparently)
literally a bundle of rooted cuttings or, perhaps, a handful of seeds
planted in a single hole. Start planting rings of things and you're into
plant sculpture.

Technical query. If a tree were coppiced early in life, might the
shoots not grow together in the same way if subsequently left alone?


I don't know. All the coppice stools I've seen have been the result of
many years of coppicing. You'll have to try it :-)

regards
sarah


--
Think of it as evolution in action.
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