On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a
Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay
leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I
concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. My inital irritation at
having spent fortunes on bay leaves for my stews and curries in the past,
subsided when I inpected the leaves on the tree and found they were far
bigger and fatter - and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking.

Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12 years
old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting and grow a
smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves ? - Or is my Bay
tree really just a laurel.

My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small
sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would
probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel
which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different
purpose) - but again I digress .... :-)

The real reason I got so interested in the Laurel is that my two
Honeysuckles at the top end of the garden are looking very very sad - the
leaves are all curly and dusty and the flowers wilted - watering has not
helped - and one of them is almost devoid of leaves. They are shaded by the
Laurel - and it has grown right over the top of them this year - I am
tempted to lop a few branches off it anyway - but could this have caused it
?

My local garden cente chap said it was worth giving them a dose of Bonemeal
(with blood !!) - so I have done that. I also gave them a good sprinkling
with some feed - mainly Nitrogen - but 20ml to 2 gallons of water seems very
mean ? Am I on the right track here ?

As ever your help is very much appreciated - please ?

Lol wrote:
On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I
have a Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great
source of Bay leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have
bay leaves - but I concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel
subspecies. My inital irritation at having spent fortunes on bay
leaves for my stews and curries in the past, subsided when I
inpected
the leaves on the tree and found they were far bigger and fatter -
and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking.

Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12
years old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting
and
grow a smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves
?
- Or is my Bay tree really just a laurel.
[...]

It's a name problem. The original name for bay was laurel (as in
victors' laurel wreaths); but the Victorians called the unrelated
_Prunus laurocerasus_ "cherry laurel" because of its berries, and
hence just "laurel". It's slightly poisonous, and the leaves smell
unpleasant to me when crushed. What you describe sounds like the
undesirable one: rather big shiny leaves, a few shades lighter in
colour than bay leaves, a rather mound-forming shape.

Older cookery books can be misleading by using "laurel" for "bay";
the original 1861 Mrs Beeton is, in my opinion, plain wrong. The 1906
edition is clearer, and says the "cherry-laurel" is sometimes used
with discretion to give an almond-like flavour -- I don't think I
ever would, though.

--
Mike.

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:


Older cookery books can be misleading by using "laurel" for "bay";
the original 1861 Mrs Beeton is, in my opinion, plain wrong. The 1906
edition is clearer, and says the "cherry-laurel" is sometimes used
with discretion to give an almond-like flavour -- I don't think I
ever would, though.

I think that "almond flavour" is the cyanide content of the laurel leaves.

Butterfly collectors used to put their victim in a jar with laurel
leaves for the cyanide gas to kill them.

Janet

"Lol" wrote in message
...
On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a
Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay
leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I
concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies.

There are 3 'suspects' which are frequently called Laurel.

Bay *is* a Laurel - Laurus nobilis, slightly crinkled edges to the leaf
(though less obviously so if grown in shade) If you crush the leaves it
smells like................Bay
Thicker stiffer more glossy leaf than the next suspect.

Portugese Laurel belongs to the cherry family - Proper name is Prunus
lusitanica. It has a thinner duller leaf than bay, reddish twigs and at this
time of the year will probably have little red 'cherries' on it.

Common Laurel or 'Cherry Laurel' and its variants like the narrow leaved low
growing variety 'Otto Luyken' often seen in supermarket carparks is *not* a
Laurel but again is a Prunus - Prunus laurocerasus. Much bigger thicker
brighter green leaves than the other 2 and if you crush them they smell of
almonds. As a kid I went through a bug collecting phase and I used crushed
laurel leaves in the killing bottle when collecting specimens.

Look at
http://www.evergreenhedging.co.uk/laurel.htm

for good illustrations of P. lusitanica and P. laurocerasus.
google should find you a picture of bay.

--
Rod

My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp
Just remove the weedy bits
and transplant the appropriate symbol at.

The message
from "Lol" contains these words:

On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a
Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay
leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I
concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. My inital irritation at
having spent fortunes on bay leaves for my stews and curries in the past,
subsided when I inpected the leaves on the tree and found they were far
bigger and fatter - and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking.

It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it
were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like
bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content.

So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a
flavouring...

Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12 years
old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting and grow a
smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves ? - Or is my Bay
tree really just a laurel.

No. The leaves of a year-old bay are similar in size to a mature tree.

My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small
sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would
probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel
which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different
purpose) - but again I digress .... :-)

Ah, the 'laurels' were in fact, bay. Figleaves as you say, are not
usually worn in pubic by emperors and victors...

The real reason I got so interested in the Laurel is that my two
Honeysuckles at the top end of the garden are looking very very sad - the
leaves are all curly and dusty and the flowers wilted - watering has not
helped - and one of them is almost devoid of leaves. They are shaded by the
Laurel - and it has grown right over the top of them this year - I am
tempted to lop a few branches off it anyway - but could this have caused it
?

I wouldn't have thought so. It's much more likely that the laurel has
impoverished and dried the soil.

My local garden cente chap said it was worth giving them a dose of Bonemeal
(with blood !!) - so I have done that. I also gave them a good sprinkling
with some feed - mainly Nitrogen - but 20ml to 2 gallons of water seems very
mean ? Am I on the right track here ?

No. 10 ml per gallon is about right. The blood provides some too, and
the bonemeal releases phosphates and other nutrients over a number of
years.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
Lol wrote:

My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small
sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would
probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel
which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different
purpose) - but again I digress .... :-)

A suitable aide-memoire is that you wear fig leaves beforehand and
laurel afterwards - if you deserve the latter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
and laurel a bit like
bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content.

So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a
flavouring...

When I used laurel leaves to kill bugs a long time ago in my youth
(when it was still ok to collect birds eggs as well,) I assumed that
it was cyanide in the leaves wot done it.
But you said the leaves contained prussic acid, which confused me !
However after a short google this page proved enlightening
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/range/g775.htm
"prussic acid--also called hydrocyanic acid, hydrogen cyanide, or
cyanide"
Psst, dont tell elfinsfty, but it goes on to say" ,,,, or cyanide--can
be fatal. "
If elfinsaftey get a whiff of that they'll be banning Laurel plantings
along with dihydrogen monoxide

rant
It is my contention that I know more about the countryside, birds in
particular, and 'nature' in general because I (we) were able to go
about and play and discover (for example that sand martin nests were
"----" that far back from the bank in tunnels and etc&etc similar
interesting things) We have a nice collection of pressed wild flowers
and vegetation (my sisters, mine and our parents collections), that
was a long time ago as was a very nice collection of dried pressed
seaweeds from grandfather and greatgrandfather from all round the uk
coastline, but who does(/is allowed to do) that sort of thing now ?
No doubt it might ( as most of it is dated and commented) give an
insight to climate trends (not mentioning the global warming word !)
but no one is going to get it because my heirs and succesors are not
permitted to do that sort of thing anymore.
eg. :-
My daughter was not able/allowed/etc to do what we did so has less
interest in those things but more in text messaging and nightclubbing
and things that she can/is permitted to do
:-((
/rant

PS
Laurel leaves crushed, in quantity and stuffed into every available
orifice of mole (warrens?) tunnels (under ones treasured lettuce
plants for example) does no good at all, they just dig new tunnels
underneath the carrots :-(((( grrrr

In article ,
WaltA wrote:

When I used laurel leaves to kill bugs a long time ago in my youth
(when it was still ok to collect birds eggs as well,) I assumed that
it was cyanide in the leaves wot done it.

Yup :-)

But you said the leaves contained prussic acid, which confused me !
However after a short google this page proved enlightening
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/range/g775.htm
"prussic acid--also called hydrocyanic acid, hydrogen cyanide, or
cyanide"

Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp.

Gosh, you must be old to remember that ! ;-))
I googled "Scheele's acid" and the first find gave me :-
"Taylor, Lond. Med. Gaz., 1845, p. 103,
a man took 45 drops of Scheele's acid;"

The message
from (WaltA) contains these words:

Nice rant.

PS
Laurel leaves crushed, in quantity and stuffed into every available
orifice of mole (warrens?) tunnels (under ones treasured lettuce
plants for example) does no good at all, they just dig new tunnels
underneath the carrots :-(((( grrrr

Indeed: you need a small mine with a trembler trigger...

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp.

/HCN/

When I'm making up some browning fluid for old gun parts I delight in
asking for bluestone and sal ammoniac, and I have been known to buy
oleum, spirits of salt and spirits of nitre.

Is that warped enough for you?

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:


It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it
were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like
bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content.

So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a
flavouring...


Not nearly enough cyanide to be dangerous. A couple of elderly
spinsters who lived near us when I was a child always used laurel
leaves to give an almond flavour to their rice puddings.



--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:27:12 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
Nice rant.

Is that all !
I had prepared my flame-proof undergarments and chainmail overcoat
expecting flames&flack from the PC brigade

Indeed: you need a small mine with a trembler trigger...

I'd settle for a small yours with some plut*&%um and a proximity
detector
I have toyed with the idea of a petrol vapour (a lá carburettor
principle) blower and a remote blue touchpaper device !

Mind you, thinking of oleum in your other post, I have in the past,
a long time ago in my youth,,, played with a nitrating mixture of
fuming nitric and conc. sulphuric involving tol%^ne.
I wont mention the hoped-for product cos it'll set the "watchers" into
a tizzy ! ( if they are not already !)

The message
from Chris Hogg contains these words:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it
were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like
bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content.

So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a
flavouring...


Not nearly enough cyanide to be dangerous. A couple of elderly
spinsters who lived near us when I was a child always used laurel
leaves to give an almond flavour to their rice puddings.

Are you sure they weren't widows?

Actually, IIRC, HCN is broken down or driven off in cooking.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from (WaltA) contains these words:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:27:12 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
Nice rant.

Is that all !
I had prepared my flame-proof undergarments and chainmail overcoat
expecting flames&flack from the PC brigade

Indeed: you need a small mine with a trembler trigger...

I'd settle for a small yours with some plut*&%um and a proximity
detector
I have toyed with the idea of a petrol vapour (a lá carburettor
principle) blower and a remote blue touchpaper device !

Mind you, thinking of oleum in your other post, I have in the past,
a long time ago in my youth,,, played with a nitrating mixture of
fuming nitric and conc. sulphuric involving tol%^ne.
I wont mention the hoped-for product cos it'll set the "watchers" into
a tizzy ! ( if they are not already !)

Ah. I used to do that regularly with cotton-wool - to see - well, not
exactly, but thereabouts - why, refer to
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/gnu.htm

I also tried it with a certain trihydric alcohol otherwise used in cake
icing, suppositories and to adulterate cheap wines to give them body.

Once...

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk