I occasionally come across the recommendation to soak seeds prior to sowing.
Is this really necessary--doesn't sowing seeds in moist media achieve the
same purpose?

In article , Rupert wrote:
I occasionally come across the recommendation to soak seeds prior to sowing.
Is this really necessary--doesn't sowing seeds in moist media achieve the
same purpose?

Yes. However, some tropical and subtropical seeds are prone to
rot before germination, and soaking them can help avoid that by
speeding up germination and allowing the use of slightly drier
compost. It can help speed up germination even for some of the
northerly seeds, too.

So it isn't necessary but may help.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article , Rupert wrote:
I occasionally come across the recommendation to soak seeds prior to
sowing.
Is this really necessary--doesn't sowing seeds in moist media achieve the
same purpose?

Yes. However, some tropical and subtropical seeds are prone to
rot before germination, and soaking them can help avoid that by
speeding up germination and allowing the use of slightly drier
compost. It can help speed up germination even for some of the
northerly seeds, too.

So it isn't necessary but may help.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thanks-that explains why I only get a poor germination with musa and some of
the seeds do rot. Next year I will follow the instructions on the packet and
soak for 24 hrs.

In article , Rupert wrote:


Thanks-that explains why I only get a poor germination with musa and some of
the seeds do rot. Next year I will follow the instructions on the packet and
soak for 24 hrs.

With large sub-tropical seeds (including beans!), I find it helpful
to soak them for 8-24 hours (depending on hardness) in water to
which a little bleach is added, germinate them on kitchen roll
(moistened with the bleach water) and then plant them in compost.
Some rot anyway :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from "Rupert" contains these words:

Thanks-that explains why I only get a poor germination with musa and
some of
the seeds do rot. Next year I will follow the instructions on the
packet and
soak for 24 hrs.

A trace of copper sulphate in the water you moisten the compost with
helps preven rot - or use a manufactured fungicide.

Last time I planted citrus pips (notorious for rotting) all of them
germinated and none damped-off.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"Dave Poole" wrote in message
...

The two main reasons for soaking seeds a

1) To rinse out soluble enzymes within the seed coat which act as
germination inhibitors.

2) To soften the hard outer seed coat allowing moisture penetration
for faster germination.

For some seeds, an overnight soak in tepid water is enough. For
others several to many days soaking and rinsing may be necessary to
break the dormancy.

Someone has mentioned Musa - these are always tricky since unless the
seed is very fresh, dormancy is severe and difficult to break. They
need at least 5 days soaking in warm water and daily rinsing, followed
by sowing in temperatures of at least 30C and preferably 35 - 38C.
Closely related Ensete and Musella are easier, they need a similar
soaking, but will germinate at around 25C.

Cannas are another 'hard' seed that are often tried with varying
degrees of success. In these, the seed coat comprises of several
veneer-like layers which need to be bridged before the seed can
germinate. The seeds are placed in a container and covered with very
hot water, just off the boil. Within seconds the seed coat layers
crack audibly and an equal amount of cold water is added. The seeds
are left to soak overnight in a warm place and sown the following day.
Quite often, a proportion of the seed will have germinated within
hours.

Dave Poole
Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK
Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C.
Growing season: March - November

Twos me what mentioned Musa.
Grow them every year in a heated propagator and have about a 10% germination
success.
However, I now know not to follow the instructions on the packet and adopt
the methods you have all mentioned.
I have long suspected that the seed is far from fresh so this year I have
ordered seed from three different suppliers and I will try to be as
scientific as possible.
Incidentally last year I gave up on the seeds planted in January after over
6 months and extracted the still dormant seeds and put them all in one big
pot placed on top of a radiator. Bingo about half sprouted within a week but
subsequently withered and died.

snip I get my Musa seed from Chiltern Seeds and their advice is to soak in
boiling water for 24 hours. I assumed this meant to drop in to water just
boiled and then leave which is what I did and always have a high rate of
success.
With most of my sowings in pots/trays I spray surface of compost with copper
fungicide, no damping off.
HTH Jim

"Padger" wrote in message
. uk...
snip I get my Musa seed from Chiltern Seeds and their advice is to soak
in
boiling water for 24 hours. I assumed this meant to drop in to water just
boiled and then leave which is what I did and always have a high rate of
success.
With most of my sowings in pots/trays I spray surface of compost with
copper
fungicide, no damping off.
HTH Jim


Thanks for info. I suppose the boiled water kills off quite a few of the
bugs and startles the dormant seed into some type of life. I will give it a
try with the larger seeds although perhaps boiling water might see off the
smaller seeds.
As I have quite a lot of seeds coming I will try all the suggestions and see
which work. In addition I will try the ordinary method I normally use (no
soaking and fairly light media).
I still like to think it's the poor quality seed that gives problems rather
than the poor quality gardener.
Will add Chiltern to my amateur seed trial.

Thanks

In article , Dave Poole
wrote:

The two main reasons for soaking seeds a

1) To rinse out soluble enzymes within the seed coat which act as
germination inhibitors.

2) To soften the hard outer seed coat allowing moisture penetration
for faster germination.


Some have a waxy coating which must be removed before moisture
will penetrate. In nature this is presumably achieved by passing through
an animal's gut. Soaking with dilute detergent may be effective.

Norman Deno's "Theory and practice of seed germination" details
many experiments on different seeds.

In article ,
Dave Poole wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:21:34 +0000,
(John McMillan) wrote:

Some have a waxy coating which must be removed before moisture
will penetrate. In nature this is presumably achieved by passing through
an animal's gut. Soaking with dilute detergent may be effective.

As will the ensuing 30 minute soak in mild bleach. Wax is not a
primary germination inhibitor. It serves to prevent dessication of
relatively thin coated seeds. Seeds that are 'held back' through a
waxy coating. germinate very readily when it is removed. Hypochlorite
ensures the eradication of bacteria that can quickly destroy embryo
tissue and is generally a better option.

My understanding is that wax prevents gemination primarily by
preventing the absorption of water - so any method that removes
it over even part of the coat will work. Including both of those
and scarification.

Don't forget the fungi - bleach will kill at least some of them,
as well as bacteria.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Poole wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:21:34 +0000,
(John McMillan) wrote:

Some have a waxy coating which must be removed before moisture
will penetrate. In nature this is presumably achieved by passing
through
an animal's gut. Soaking with dilute detergent may be effective.

As will the ensuing 30 minute soak in mild bleach. Wax is not a
primary germination inhibitor. It serves to prevent dessication of
relatively thin coated seeds. Seeds that are 'held back' through a
waxy coating. germinate very readily when it is removed. Hypochlorite
ensures the eradication of bacteria that can quickly destroy embryo
tissue and is generally a better option.

My understanding is that wax prevents gemination primarily by
preventing the absorption of water - so any method that removes
it over even part of the coat will work. Including both of those
and scarification.

Don't forget the fungi - bleach will kill at least some of them,
as well as bacteria.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
All good stuff. The wax will be broken down by the highly alkaline solution
of sodium hypochlorite. The wax subject had not really crossed my mind but
it explains why seed trials often use soaking seeds in assorted solvents
such as acetone and carbon tetrachloride which will remove wax and probably
won't do much for the life expectancy of bugs.