a few months ago there was an article in the papers about
basic rock nutrients you could but in bulk from a scottish site it improved
the trace mineral content of the soil to make it like new soil formed by
volcanic eruption
you just chucked it on at the usual dosage of a couple of handfulls a square
meter and let it do its funky stuff
any ideas guys i would be most greatfull for a link
ive done the google tingie but then again i am one of lifes computer
iliterates
dave

TR wrote:
a few months ago there was an article in the papers about
basic rock nutrients you could but in bulk from a scottish site it
improved the trace mineral content of the soil to make it like new
soil formed by volcanic eruption
you just chucked it on at the usual dosage of a couple of handfulls
a
square meter and let it do its funky stuff
any ideas guys i would be most greatfull for a link
ive done the google tingie but then again i am one of lifes
computer
iliterates
dave

Sounds like a waste of money. If your soil is lacking something, you
find out what it is, and replace that, not a whole lot of other
stuff. But you probably don't need anything you wouldn't get from the
usual gardening processes: compost, bonemeal, etc, seaweed if you can
get it, and a bit of ordinary fertiliser if you need it. There's no
magic in volcanoes: the best thing for improving soil is growing
things in it.

--
Mike.

yup i agree
what i wanted was the site addy as i sponser a couple of prokects in Africa
where this stuff has been used as im sending out a container of usefull
items i did think a few bas of this might be usefull i have seen the pyramid
garden minimal watering lock the nuetriants in the soil idea in several
locations on the web i wnted feedback from GARDENERS who may be knew
dave

TR wrote:
yup i agree
what i wanted was the site addy as i sponser a couple of prokects in Africa
where this stuff has been used as im sending out a container of usefull
items i did think a few bas of this might be usefull i have seen the pyramid
garden minimal watering lock the nuetriants in the soil idea in several
locations on the web i wnted feedback from GARDENERS who may be knew

Dave. Are you looking for andisol? What are you looking for? I don't
understand. What's your soil type? What's lacking? What do you want to
grow?

In message , TR
writes
yup i agree
what i wanted was the site addy as i sponser a couple of prokects in Africa
where this stuff has been used as im sending out a container of usefull
items i did think a few bas of this might be usefull i have seen the pyramid
garden minimal watering lock the nuetriants in the soil idea in several
locations on the web i wnted feedback from GARDENERS who may be knew

Sounds like you are talking about soil remineralisation, basically
adding rock dust to soil too replace various minerals that can come
depleted over time. There does seem to some evidence that this might be
useful process.

Anyway, I know Colin Shaw has tried out this, I've read an article he
wrote in Kitchen Garden magazine a while ago. He has some stuff on it on
his website with some contacts

http://www.organicgarden.org.uk/remineralisation/index.htm

This breaks the frames though, for the rest of the site see the base
url:

http://www.organicgarden.org.uk/
--
Chris French

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "TR" you @me contains these words:

a few months ago there was an article in the papers about
basic rock nutrients you could but in bulk from a scottish site

http://www.seercentre.org.uk/

is the place you're thinking of; but all is not what you think. Those
impressive veg are not achieved just by scattering rockdust on barren
hillside.. I spent a day there once and a long time talking to the
Thomsons. What his website carefully doesn't mention, is that as well as
the rockdust, he spreads hundreds of tons of municipal compost (the
stuff councils make from their green-waste collection services). That's
what really creates the soil fertility imho.

http://www.sepa.org.uk/news/releases...p?id=96&y=2004

properly acknowledges that SEERS combines large-scale managed waste
with the rockdust, and provides a more realistic account imho ( read
down to what John Ferguson says.)

I'm not decrying what SEER achieves, but understand that a dressing
of Scottish quarry dust (that's what he uses; granite quarry iirc) will
not, on its own, make infertile/exhausted soil produce heavy crops. I
would also be surprised if Scottish rock dusts could "remineralise"
depleted soils in Africa which are geologically unrelated.

Janet

A very fair critique.
Whilst I applaud SEER for their work I really think that they let themselves
down by extolling the virtues of ground granite.
It contains the same trace elements that would be obtained from a variety of
other sources.
AFAIK it increases acidity slightly and that's about it.
In fairness to SEER they do not make the same outrageous claims that are
being chucked around by others

ey up thats the site
the seer stuff
im going out to S africa and i wanted to show some people out there just
what can be achived using this stuff and compost
the idea is sound its a bit pricey i know but so is fertilizer
i like the idea of vegie mounds ect in the township areas the aint got
tthe room to dig but a mound a couple of meters round and a meter or so high
is possible
so many thanks
dave

TR wrote:
ey up thats the site
the seer stuff
im going out to S africa and i wanted to show some people out there
just what can be achived using this stuff and compost
the idea is sound

Hang about! I thought we established that the idea _wasn't_
particularly sound!

its a bit pricey i know but so is fertilizer
i like the idea of vegie mounds ect in the township areas the
aint
got tthe room to dig but a mound a couple of meters round and a
meter
or so high is possible
so many thanks
dave

I wouldn't be too sure they need much help from us on how to grow
things! And if you're worried about the cost, well, they do have
rocks of their own.

--
Mike.

"TR" you @me wrote in message ...
ey up thats the site
the seer stuff
im going out to S africa and i wanted to show some people out there just
what can be achived using this stuff and compost
the idea is sound its a bit pricey i know but so is fertilizer
i like the idea of vegie mounds ect in the township areas the aint got
tthe room to dig but a mound a couple of meters round and a meter or so
high is possible
so many thanks
dave
On the basis of this info you will be detained and shot upon entry to SA:-)
NPWA believes that the promotion of PR and ground granite soil conditioners
by organic growers' organisations endangers the health and well-being of
their members and of people who follow their advice.

NPWA also believes that the use of raw phosphate rock and ground granite for
fertiliser and/or soil conditioner should be banned for health and safety
reasons.

Full article http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/phosphate.cfm

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:
TR wrote:

a few months ago there was an article in the papers about
basic rock nutrients you could but in bulk from a scottish site it
improved the trace mineral content of the soil to make it like new
soil formed by volcanic eruption
you just chucked it on at the usual dosage of a couple of handfulls
a
square meter and let it do its funky stuff
any ideas guys i would be most greatfull for a link
ive done the google tingie but then again i am one of lifes
computer
iliterates
dave

Sounds like a waste of money. If your soil is lacking something, you
find out what it is, and replace that, not a whole lot of other
stuff. But you probably don't need anything you wouldn't get from the
usual gardening processes: compost, bonemeal, etc, seaweed if you can
get it, and a bit of ordinary fertiliser if you need it. There's no
magic in volcanoes: the best thing for improving soil is growing
things in it.

It isn't a waste of time: in fact, in trials it has proved spectacularly
effective in increasing crop yields.

It was featured on (IIRC) one of the R4 science programmes. I can't
unforget the details, except that I think the initial experiment was
carried out in Perthshire.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
The message
from "Mike Lyle"
[...]
Sounds like a waste of money. If your soil is lacking something,
you
find out what it is, and replace that, not a whole lot of other
stuff. But you probably don't need anything you wouldn't get from
the
usual gardening processes: compost, bonemeal, etc, seaweed if you
can
get it, and a bit of ordinary fertiliser if you need it. There's
no
magic in volcanoes: the best thing for improving soil is growing
things in it.

It isn't a waste of time: in fact, in trials it has proved
spectacularly effective in increasing crop yields.

It was featured on (IIRC) one of the R4 science programmes. I can't
unforget the details, except that I think the initial experiment
was
carried out in Perthshire.

OK, I'll accept that -- unfortunately missed the prog. So how does it
work? And has it worked in other places? I can see that from time to
time a depleted soil might need trace-mineral replacement; but surely
that's a rare case?

I'm assuming that the experiments were carried out with the usual
controls, in order to avoid what I think of as "the reading-scheme
phenomenon" (impressive results achieved with a new teaching method,
but turning out to be just because of the extra attention received by
both pupils and teachers).

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
The message
from "Mike Lyle"
[...]
Sounds like a waste of money. If your soil is lacking something,
you
find out what it is, and replace that, not a whole lot of other
stuff. But you probably don't need anything you wouldn't get from
the
usual gardening processes: compost, bonemeal, etc, seaweed if you
can
get it, and a bit of ordinary fertiliser if you need it. There's
no
magic in volcanoes: the best thing for improving soil is growing
things in it.

It isn't a waste of time: in fact, in trials it has proved
spectacularly effective in increasing crop yields.

It was featured on (IIRC) one of the R4 science programmes. I can't
unforget the details, except that I think the initial experiment
was
carried out in Perthshire.

OK, I'll accept that -- unfortunately missed the prog. So how does it
work? And has it worked in other places? I can see that from time to
time a depleted soil might need trace-mineral replacement; but surely
that's a rare case?

I'm assuming that the experiments were carried out with the usual
controls, in order to avoid what I think of as "the reading-scheme
phenomenon" (impressive results achieved with a new teaching method,
but turning out to be just because of the extra attention received by
both pupils and teachers).

--
Mike.


I think your original statement "Sounds like a waste of money" was spot on,
however, for those who want it here is the price schedule

Rock Dust comes in 20 kg. bags which will cover approximately 40 sq. yds as
an annual application, prices are as follows:-

1 bags £15.99 each
2 to 4 bags £14.50 each
5 to 10 bags £12.99 each
Prices INCLUDE delivery and VAT

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...

OK, I'll accept that -- unfortunately missed the prog. So how does it
work? And has it worked in other places? I can see that from time to
time a depleted soil might need trace-mineral replacement; but surely
that's a rare case?

I'm assuming that the experiments were carried out with the usual
controls, in order to avoid what I think of as "the reading-scheme
phenomenon" (impressive results achieved with a new teaching method,
but turning out to be just because of the extra attention received by
both pupils and teachers).

--
Mike.

There's some general stuff about some Australian trials (1997)
on here -

http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch02/oldfield/

quote

A Summary Of Our Reporting To Date:

Granite dust promotes the fast and healthy growth of tree
seedlings in the nursery.

Granite dust particularly benefits nitrogen-fixing trees.

Granite dust can provide some potassium to plants on demand.

Although granite dust has a high pH it does not seem to raise
significantly the pH of acid soils.

Granite dust has been shown to reduce the yield of wheat
under field conditions.

Diorite dust may reduce weed competition to the benefit
of a wheat crop.

Quarry dust improves water infiltration rates to the benefit
of non-wetting soils.

Quarry dust improves water retention in free draining soils.

Quarry dust benefits dairy pastures by promoting legume growth
at the expense of less productive species when applied as an
additive to slurry from cattle sheds.

Granite dust has given a marginally higher yield from a lupin
crop than either chemical fertiliser or a commercial rockdust blend.

Composting earthworms prefer a feed ration to which rockdust has
been added.

Quarry dust may affect the way plants respond to electromagnetic
radiation, in particular excess solar radiation.

Granite dust does not seem to benefit well-nurtured gardens.

Nevertheless a granite and marble dust mixture appeared to benefit
garden crops grown on an alluvial loam.

Granite dust contains 27ppm lanthanum, a rare earth considered
by the Chinese to be a plant growth promoter.

Quarry dust may deter wingless grasshoppers.

Tree seedlings raised in a soil mix containing 5% granite dust
appear to resist insect predation.

Tree seedlings raised in a granite dust enriched potting mix appear
to continue fast healthy growth after planting out under adverse
climatic and soil conditions typical of the West Australian wheatbelt.

There could be a link between the use of rock dust and the noted
absence of fungal attack in the early stages of seedling growth.

© Copyright Permaculture Association of Western Australia Inc.
and authors, 1997.

/quote



michael adams


....

In message , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:


I'm assuming that the experiments were carried out with the usual
controls, in order to avoid what I think of as "the reading-scheme
phenomenon" (impressive results achieved with a new teaching method,
but turning out to be just because of the extra attention received by
both pupils and teachers).

snip

At the time I was there, there were no "control beds ", using just stone
dust as a dressing, and I have never seen reference to such a comparison
being attempted.

ISTR that in the article by Colin Shaw I mentioned he talked about
comparing beds with and without the rock dust
--
Chris French

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these
words:


I'm assuming that the experiments were carried out with the usual
controls, in order to avoid what I think of as "the reading-scheme
phenomenon" (impressive results achieved with a new teaching method,
but turning out to be just because of the extra attention received by
both pupils and teachers).

snip

At the time I was there, there were no "control beds ", using just stone
dust as a dressing, and I have never seen reference to such a comparison
being attempted.

ISTR that in the article by Colin Shaw I mentioned he talked about
comparing beds with and without the rock dust
--
Chris French


Chris,I took Janet's post to mean she had not seen trials or comparisons
being made at SEER.
There are a plethora of trials along similar lines to the one you mentioned.
I would maintain that any differences are due to drainage/soil structure and
not nutrient enhancement from assorted rock dusts.
Here is a good trial (by an Undergraduate) which broadly confirms Colin's
results
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/...alisation1.htm