I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.

I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they
supposed to ???

Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ???

"thesquire" wrote in a message:
snip
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.
---
I have been using the same giant tub of hormone rooting powder for
the five years. No wonder my cuttings haven't come to much these past
three.

Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ???
Notcutts?

M.R.

The message
from thesquire contains these words:

I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.

I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they
supposed to ???

Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ???

Hello! Someone waving a red rag?

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Mike Roscoe wrote:
"thesquire" wrote in a message:
snip
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months,
even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.
---
I have been using the same giant tub of hormone rooting powder for
the five years. No wonder my cuttings haven't come to much these
past
three.

Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ???
Notcutts?

I know I'm not alone in thinking the freshness of your rooting powder
probably has little to do with your success rate. Few species
actually need it, and -- especially if you use too much -- it can
even _hinder_ rooting. I think light, temperature, moisture level,
and medium are usually more important. It's also easy -- or it is if
you happen to be as casual as I often am -- to put in your cuttings
in such a way or such a medium as to leave an air gap underneath or
around them: this is asking for failure.

--
Mike.

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:

I know I'm not alone in thinking the freshness of your rooting powder
probably has little to do with your success rate. Few species
actually need it, and -- especially if you use too much -- it can
even _hinder_ rooting. I think light, temperature, moisture level,
and medium are usually more important. It's also easy -- or it is if
you happen to be as casual as I often am -- to put in your cuttings
in such a way or such a medium as to leave an air gap underneath or
around them: this is asking for failure.


We shall see...

A kind urgler sent me some Worcesterberry cuttings last year and they
went in to a bed I have to pass to get to the back door, and because of
its position, easy to shade. No rooting hormone used.

A neighbour cut off some forsythia and added it to the litter (leaf and
twig!) in the hedge down the loke, and I took a few cuttings from that
and just poked them in. No rooting hormone.

I've never found rooting hormone to affect how cuttings strike - neither
the speed of it nor the reliability.

All the cuttings - Worcesterberry and forsythia appear OK ATM.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from "Rupert" contains these words:


"thesquire" wrote in message
...
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.
snip

Which good authority has given you this information? IMHO they are talking
nonsense.
I suppose it depends what the formulation contains.
Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with
other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier.
These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away from
light.

This may be true, but it could also be that they react with each-other.

Citric acid is stable, as is bicarbonate of soda, but mixed, they are
not. Over a period of time they will inter-react, and with considerable
vigour if water gains access.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Whilst studying the RHS General, I got told the same thing. The group
could not find dates on talc products. The only product we found that
did have a date on it was a gel from Clonex, which has a date on it. I
got some via mail order, but only had 3 months on it. They had a stand
at Gardeners World, so begged the question. The gell is blue and goes
brown when it looses its effectiveness, the date provides guidance.
If only the talc was so clear.
As far as talc based producs went, we concluded it was best to by in
season, when the was more than the odd pot on the shelf, then take from
the back (so synical us lot!)
Clifford

We were told that IBA / NAA was not stable

Mike,
you raise some good points here.
The main advantage of rooting powder is the fungicide, IMO
I was told there were a couple of reasons for failure beyond what you
have mentioned. Too much powder forms a cap which affects air and
moisture reaching the root zone, which then affects the roots abbility
to break though the talc cap. This is one of the reasons I have moved
over too gel.
I take you point about other factors being major players, humidity,
moisture etc, but they are out of control for most amateurs (how many
of us can accurately control temperature - many domestic electric
propogators have fixed thermostats - my Scotts heats the soil to 24°C,
which explained my poor performance)

"thesquire" wrote in message
...
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.


The manufacturers own website for "Strike2" from PBI
gives a minimum stored shelf life of two years and
at least another two years after opening if
uncontaminated. They don't say anything specific about
optimum storage conditions, but keeping most things
organic and chemical in the dark (to use the technical
terminology) away from UV light, and relatively cool
seems to prolong their lifespan.

quote

An unopened container of Strike2 has a minimum shelf
life of two years. Strike 2 is registered for sale under
the guidelines set by the UK Regulatory Authority and
as part of this registration such storage stability
must be proved. Once a container has been opened the
shelf life can be just as long, however, it may be
necessary to replace product in shorter time spells
due to contamination from soil or plant debris in the
powder.

http://www.pbi.co.uk/products/239/1/?Strike+2

/quote

You'd imagine PBI would be keen to promote as many replacement
sales as possible - and so this can presumably be taken as a
conservative estimate of the product's longevity.

The fungicidal component in rooting poeder is apprently more
persistent, and so this alone may account for continued success
when using much older powder - up to 8 or to 10 years old in my
case. Or maybe its benefits are overstated for some material in
any case.

When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two
of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago
with they claimed, no appreciable difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml




michael adams

....





I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they
supposed to ???

Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ???

"michael adams" wrote
"thesquire" wrote in message
...
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.

snippage

When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two
of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago
with they claimed, no appreciable difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml

I can also remember reading an article by Geoffrey Smith, who mentioned
trying two trays of similar cuttings, one using rooting powder as per the
instructions, and one tray without. IIRC he found no appreciable difference
and concluded it was a waste of money.

The cynical part of me wonders if a use-by date on the container wouldn't
just be a sales tactic so people will throw it out and buy more product.

--
Sue

"Rupert" wrote in message
...
..
I suppose it depends what the formulation contains.
Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid
with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder
carrier.
These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored
away from light.

But not in the presence of water. If you've dipped the cuttings in the
tub then you are storing damp material. Just take out a tiny bit to
use now and close the container. Having said that I never need it
anyway.
--
Rod

My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp
Just remove the weedy bits
and transplant the appropriate symbol at.

"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words:


"thesquire" wrote in message
...
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even
if kept in a closed container and refrigerated.
snip

Which good authority has given you this information? IMHO they are
talking
nonsense.
I suppose it depends what the formulation contains.
Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with
other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier.
These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away
from
light.

This may be true, but it could also be that they react with each-other.

Citric acid is stable, as is bicarbonate of soda, but mixed, they are
not. Over a period of time they will inter-react, and with considerable
vigour if water gains access.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Citric acid and sodium bicarbonate when mixed as solids do not react.
Andrews liver salts /Alka-Seltzer the above mixture only fizz with water.

Indolebutyric acid/Naphthylacetic acid are stable and do not react.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Sue" contains these words:


"michael adams" wrote


When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two
of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago
with they claimed, no appreciable difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml

On the link you quote, the third panellist, John Cushnie, said

"I use it, great stuff! And so cheap it won't cost a fortune to
re-stock."

....

Indeed.

But the two panellists I cited, Nigel Colborn and Bunny Guinness
had previously used rooting powder, and then stopped. In the case
of Nigel Colborn 12 years ago. And both claimed they found no
difference in the results they obtained.

John Cushnie on the other hand, gives no indication that there has
ever been a time when he didn't use rooting powder. In which case
if he's always used it, he has no way of knowing whether it's really
effective or not.

That's why I only cited the first two.


michael adams

....

I can also remember reading an article by Geoffrey Smith, who mentioned
trying two trays of similar cuttings, one using rooting powder as per
the
instructions, and one tray without. IIRC he found no appreciable
difference
and concluded it was a waste of money.

Some plants like forsythia, blackcurrant, buddleja, willow, root so
easily and fast it barely matters how you trim them, what you plant them
in or how much care they get. Ram untrimmed prunings in the garden soil
where they fell, drop them in a puddle, and many will root. Others such
as roses and clematis need more preparation and care.

I use hormone rooting powder on any cuttings which are tricky enough to
be going into a pot, an enclosed atmosphere, and any growing medium
better than a shovel of neat garden soil. The smallest possible pot of
powder (about the height of a green thumb) costs a couple of pounds in
any GC, and will "do" many hundreds of cuttings over several
seasons....trivial outlay and effort.

Janet.

"Rod Craddock" wrote in message
...
"Rupert" wrote in message
...
.
I suppose it depends what the formulation contains.
Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid
with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder
carrier.
These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored
away from light.

But not in the presence of water. If you've dipped the cuttings in the
tub then you are storing damp material. Just take out a tiny bit to
use now and close the container.

....

Top Tip!


michael adams

....

Having said that I never need it
anyway.
--
Rod

My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp
Just remove the weedy bits
and transplant the appropriate symbol at.