I have a new brasier (spelling?) and have used it a lot. Now its over
half full of ash.

Is it safe to dump this, and dig it into the vegtable plot?

Thanks
Steve Newport

In message , Steve Newport
writes
I have a new brasier (spelling?) and have used it a lot. Now its over
half full of ash.

Is it safe to dump this, and dig it into the vegtable plot?

Thanks
Steve Newport

Depends what you've been burning. If you've been burning wood treated
with, for example, Chromated Copper Arsenate (Tanalith) added the ash to
a vegetable plot would probably not be a good idea.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Steve Newport
writes
I have a new brasier (spelling?) and have used it a lot. Now its over
half full of ash.

Is it safe to dump this, and dig it into the vegtable plot?

Depends what you've been burning. If you've been burning wood treated
with, for example, Chromated Copper Arsenate (Tanalith) added the ash to
a vegetable plot would probably not be a good idea.

POSSIBLY not a good idea. If growing plants on soils containing those
metals made them toxic, the Welsh would have died out years ago.
Also, we need a fair amount of copper in our diet, a trace of arsenic,
and possibly even some chromium (I can't remember). It is primarily
too much of those that is the problem! Eating that ash is definitely
a bad idea, but it is likely that plants will filter most of the
heavy metals out.

What I don't have a clue about, and I am damn sure that none of the
Whitehall and Brussels bureaucrats making the rules do, either, is
what the effect of such residues is (a) on the soil ecology and
(b) on the uptake in food plants. A certain amount of playing safe
is justified, but hysteria is not - and many of our regulations are
made by ignorant and negligent bureaucrats following campaigns by
a hysterical gutter press.

There. That's nailed my colours to the fence!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Steve Newport
writes
I have a new brasier (spelling?) and have used it a lot. Now its over
half full of ash.

Is it safe to dump this, and dig it into the vegtable plot?

Depends what you've been burning. If you've been burning wood treated
with, for example, Chromated Copper Arsenate (Tanalith) added the ash to
a vegetable plot would probably not be a good idea.

POSSIBLY not a good idea. If growing plants on soils containing those
metals made them toxic, the Welsh would have died out years ago.
Also, we need a fair amount of copper in our diet, a trace of arsenic,
and possibly even some chromium (I can't remember). It is primarily
too much of those that is the problem! Eating that ash is definitely
a bad idea, but it is likely that plants will filter most of the
heavy metals out.

As you say it's the dose that makes the poison. But, I think you'll find
that most Welsh soils don't have significantly raised levels of heavy
metals, and that no-one grows food on the spoil heaps of Parys Mountain.

According to Wikipedia the lethal dose of tanalised wood ash is 20g
(about a teaspoonful).

Some plants concentrate heavy metals.

Maybe the concentration is diluted to a safe level by harvest, but using
tanalised wood ash as a fertiliser is an unnecessary risk. I wouldn't do
it, anymore than I would eat a random umbellifer from a hedgerow.

What I don't have a clue about, and I am damn sure that none of the
Whitehall and Brussels bureaucrats making the rules do, either, is
what the effect of such residues is (a) on the soil ecology and
(b) on the uptake in food plants. A certain amount of playing safe
is justified, but hysteria is not - and many of our regulations are
made by ignorant and negligent bureaucrats following campaigns by
a hysterical gutter press.

There. That's nailed my colours to the fence!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

As you say it's the dose that makes the poison. But, I think you'll find
that most Welsh soils don't have significantly raised levels of heavy
metals, and that no-one grows food on the spoil heaps of Parys Mountain.

I should be surprised at the former, if you use the chalk and clay
areas of the south east as a baseline. Rock (often granite) dust
contains a lot of different heavy metals, and is fairly widely used
as a fertiliser. But I agree that the use of much tanalised ash
could raise the content to spoil heap levels.

According to Wikipedia the lethal dose of tanalised wood ash is 20g
(about a teaspoonful).

Hmm. Methinks you place too much trust in Wikipedia. 20 grams being
a teaspoonful implies a specific density of 4!

I can believe 20 grams, because a lethal dose of arsenic can be as
low as 125 milligrams. But that is more than a teaspoonful of even
compacted ash, and MUCH more of uncompacted ash.

Some plants concentrate heavy metals.

Yes. But, if any of the common food plants concentrated things like
arsenic to any great extent, don't you think that it would be a
known problem?

Maybe the concentration is diluted to a safe level by harvest, but using
tanalised wood ash as a fertiliser is an unnecessary risk. I wouldn't do
it, anymore than I would eat a random umbellifer from a hedgerow.

I agree with that. My point is that you don't have any evidence
either way - and nor do I - so you are basing that entirely on
estimates of the potential consequences.

If we still had a semi-independent scientific civil service or even
a university system with independent funding, this would doubtless
have been investigated and we would have some facts to go on. But
we no longer have either :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
[...]
Some plants concentrate heavy metals.

Yes. But, if any of the common food plants concentrated things like
arsenic to any great extent, don't you think that it would be a
known problem?

Maybe the concentration is diluted to a safe level by harvest, but
using tanalised wood ash as a fertiliser is an unnecessary risk. I
wouldn't do it, anymore than I would eat a random umbellifer from a
hedgerow.

I agree with that. My point is that you don't have any evidence
either way - and nor do I - so you are basing that entirely on
estimates of the potential consequences.

If we still had a semi-independent scientific civil service or even
a university system with independent funding, this would doubtless
have been investigated and we would have some facts to go on. But
we no longer have either :-(

Good heavens! You mean you don't bask in the glory of the thrusting new
business-model society generously bestowed on a grateful nation by the
Thatcher-Blair team? A flexible workforce leaves you cold? I bet you
still reckon our Leaders know the cost of everything and the value of
nothing! Tsk! You and I are going to get locked up.

Meanwhile, Steve, be conservative about your toxic residues, if any. If
much of the timber you've burnt was treated, spread the ash thinly; and
if at all dubious, you may prefer not to use it on the food plot.
Personally, I'd rake it in without worrying much, unless on clay, in
which case I'd probably bin the ash, or save it for scattering round
fruit trees, because it would make the soil stickier. If it's been well
weathered, it may not have any potash left by now, so you can chuck it.

--
Mike.

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

In message , Steve Newport
writes

I have a new brasier (spelling?) and have used it a lot. Now its over
half full of ash.

Is it safe to dump this, and dig it into the vegtable plot?

Depends what you've been burning. If you've been burning wood treated
with, for example, Chromated Copper Arsenate (Tanalith) added the ash to
a vegetable plot would probably not be a good idea.

I wouldn't dump CCA doped wood ash. And I would preferentially use wood
ash under fruit trees and bushes before the veg plot anyway. However,
onions seem to like the charcoal for drainage and a bit of wood ash.

Never noticed it make much of difference to other veg.

Regards,
Martin Brown