Rock dust
 

I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help
welcome.

Rock dust
 

Broadback wrote:
I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help
welcome.

I'm awfully sceptical about this whole thing. Rock dust is more or less
what subsoil _is_. It seems there are cases where it's done some soils a
lot of good, but it must depend on what the rock is, and what the soil
in question is lacking. I'd devote the time and money to finding lots of
organic material. (The gorse, of course, is doing your soil a lot of
good on its own.)

--
Mike.

Rock dust
 

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:
Broadback wrote:
I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help
welcome.

I'm awfully sceptical about this whole thing. Rock dust is more or less
what subsoil _is_. It seems there are cases where it's done some soils a
lot of good, but it must depend on what the rock is, and what the soil
in question is lacking. I'd devote the time and money to finding lots of
organic material. (The gorse, of course, is doing your soil a lot of
good on its own.)

No, it's for real. Rock dust is before many of the minerals have been
leached by millennia of rainfall - subsoil is the state afterwards.
Gorse is generally a good indicator of a very poor soil, often one
that has been badly leached.

A reasonable compromise would be some quarry dust and some nutrient-
rich organic matter - nightsoil would be ideal, but all of bullshit,
cowslop and pigshit are fine, horse and poultry dung not bad, but the
cardboard residue that is being sold as a peat substitute (and peat
itself) are damn-near nutrient-free.

Failing quarry dust, a 50/50 mixture of aggregate and builders' sand
would do.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Rock dust
 

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing rock
dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in North
Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the cost? My
lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create something to
enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help welcome.

This topic was discussed sometime ago and the Jury is out.
I am very sceptical about the claims, although adding some sort of grit to a
growing media will aid drainage and probably give better seedlings.
In your case I would use loads of organic stuff as Nick has suggested.
If you check this site you can read more about the whole thing . I believe
they actually use masses of manure which,as Janet Barraclough pointed out,
they omit to mention, however, they are doing very good work

http://www.seercentre.org.uk/original/index-2.html
They have got distributors for the stuff .

Rock dust
 

"Rupert" wrote in message
...

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help
welcome.

This topic was discussed sometime ago and the Jury is out.
I am very sceptical about the claims, although adding some sort of grit to
a growing media will aid drainage and probably give better seedlings.
In your case I would use loads of organic stuff as Nick has suggested.
If you check this site you can read more about the whole thing . I believe
they actually use masses of manure which,as Janet Barraclough pointed out,
they omit to mention, however, they are doing very good work

http://www.seercentre.org.uk/original/index-2.html
They have got distributors for the stuff .


That should read Janet Baraclough (Sorry). How could a Yorkshireman misspell
a Yorkshire name

Rock dust
 

In article , Rupert wrote:

This topic was discussed sometime ago and the Jury is out.

Actually, I think that it is more accurate to say that it does work,
at least for most of the main rock types found in the UK, but that
isn't actually the question most people are asking. I.e. if you
need to create soil from scratch, yes, a mixture of rock dust and
even nutrient-poor organic matter is very good.

However, so is a mixture of suitable subsoils and nutrient-rich
organic matter, and that is usually much easier to arrange.

But most people want to know if it will work as a fertiliser, and
I don't think that anyone has presented any useful evidence, so the
jury hasn't even been sent out yet!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Rock dust
 

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:

Broadback wrote:
I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse. all help
welcome.

I'm awfully sceptical about this whole thing. Rock dust is more or less
what subsoil _is_. It seems there are cases where it's done some soils a
lot of good, but it must depend on what the rock is, and what the soil
in question is lacking. I'd devote the time and money to finding lots of
organic material. (The gorse, of course, is doing your soil a lot of
good on its own.)


Rock dust added to poor soil has been shown to have an amazing effect,
but whether this was due to the original impoverishment of the soil
(mountainside, IIRC) or its pH, I don't know.

But much subsoil has been leached for millennia and most of the soluble
nutrients have gone. Only the most recent deposits, mainly clay, are
really fertile.

I'd say it was well worth a try, and bags of rock dust can be bought - a
good googling should find a supply.

Try one bag and a small area first, and a similar untreated one with the
same crop, as a control.

And then report back here!

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rock dust
 

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| It's spelled two ways (by Bar(r)acloughs), and approximately 37 ways
| by the rest of the ignorant world including my brother. Don't get me
| started on how they mispronounce it...

Only 37? You should try Maclaren - it is spelled well over 100
ways by members of the clan Labhran, and many times that in error.
For some reason, the English are especially incapable of even
copying what is in front of them in print.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Rock dust
 

On 24/2/06 13:47, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| It's spelled two ways (by Bar(r)acloughs), and approximately 37 ways
| by the rest of the ignorant world including my brother. Don't get me
| started on how they mispronounce it...

Only 37? You should try Maclaren - it is spelled well over 100
ways by members of the clan Labhran, and many times that in error.
For some reason, the English are especially incapable of even
copying what is in front of them in print.

My ex's surname was Villiers which is pronounced without the final 'i' being
sounded, as in 'Villers'. I lost count of the infuriating numbers of times
I would give the name correctly to someone who would then repeat it as
Villyers, as if they knew better than I did how to pronounce my name. And
then there were the numerous occasions when envelopes would be addressed to
us as if we were houses......!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

Rock dust
 

The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

It's spelled two ways (by Bar(r)acloughs), and approximately 37 ways
by the rest of the ignorant world including my brother. Don't get me
started on how they mispronounce it...


Someone who shall remain nameless...

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rock dust
 

The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

The message
from Rusty Hinge 2 contains these words:


Rock dust added to poor soil has been shown to have an amazing effect,


Where?


Scotland.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rock dust
 

On 24 Feb 2006 09:19:12 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article , Rupert wrote:

This topic was discussed sometime ago and the Jury is out.

Actually, I think that it is more accurate to say that it does work,
at least for most of the main rock types found in the UK, but that
isn't actually the question most people are asking. I.e. if you
need to create soil from scratch, yes, a mixture of rock dust and
even nutrient-poor organic matter is very good.

However, so is a mixture of suitable subsoils and nutrient-rich
organic matter, and that is usually much easier to arrange.

But most people want to know if it will work as a fertiliser, and
I don't think that anyone has presented any useful evidence, so the
jury hasn't even been sent out yet!

It would also depend greatly on the type of rock. Limestone or marble
dust, for example would result in an alkaline 'soil', in the same way
as simply adding lime (much 'lime' sold in garden centres is limestone
dust, anyway). A granite dust would be very mildly acidic and might
provide traces of potash. Then there's gabbro, slate etc., a long
list, all different and each contributing it's own suite of trace
elements.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Rock dust
 

Ian Paul Freemanly wrote:
Broadback Stroked my keelbasa and whined:

I'm sure that many of you have seen the recent publicity about mixing
rock dust with compost to make a great soil growing media. I live in
North Staffordshire, is this dust available near here and what is the
cost? My lower garden is devoid of top soil, I would love to create
something to enable me to grow anything, apart from gorse.


HTH
Adding manure ( I use lots) to the ground I wish to improve will do no
good. It is what I believe is called gravel, with no topsoil at all. I
say believe because my idea of gravel is the sharp edged small stones
that are used for concrete making. This is various sized pebbles in a
very meagre amount of sand and clay.

Rock dust
 

In article ,
Broadback wrote:

Adding manure ( I use lots) to the ground I wish to improve will do no
good. It is what I believe is called gravel, with no topsoil at all. I
say believe because my idea of gravel is the sharp edged small stones
that are used for concrete making. This is various sized pebbles in a
very meagre amount of sand and clay.

I suggest a few loads of builders's sand, and a third the amount of
manure. It may not work, but nothing much else will if it doesn't.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Rock dust
 

Nick Maclaren Stroked my keelbasa and whined:

In article ,
Broadback wrote:

Adding manure ( I use lots) to the ground I wish to improve will do no
good. It is what I believe is called gravel, with no topsoil at all. I
say believe because my idea of gravel is the sharp edged small stones
that are used for concrete making. This is various sized pebbles in a
very meagre amount of sand and clay.

I suggest a few loads of builders's sand, and a third the amount of
manure. It may not work, but nothing much else will if it doesn't.

Move to France. Better class of people.

Rock dust
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Rusty Hinge 2 contains these words:


Rock dust added to poor soil has been shown to have an amazing effect,


Where?

Janet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of our labs,several years ago, showed that after conventional
separation in a sieve tower, available soluble minerals were negligible. A
handful of clay would have been a better fertiliser than a ton of dust.
This does not imply that the dust may not have other benefits~ other than
for the vendors. Either way it will eventually break down to available
minerals~~ though it may be some thousands of years.
Best Wishes Brian.

Rock dust
 

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On 24 Feb 2006 09:19:12 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article , Rupert wrote:

This topic was discussed sometime ago and the Jury is out.

Actually, I think that it is more accurate to say that it does work,
at least for most of the main rock types found in the UK, but that
isn't actually the question most people are asking. I.e. if you
need to create soil from scratch, yes, a mixture of rock dust and
even nutrient-poor organic matter is very good.

However, so is a mixture of suitable subsoils and nutrient-rich
organic matter, and that is usually much easier to arrange.

But most people want to know if it will work as a fertiliser, and
I don't think that anyone has presented any useful evidence, so the
jury hasn't even been sent out yet!

It would also depend greatly on the type of rock. Limestone or marble
dust, for example would result in an alkaline 'soil', in the same way
as simply adding lime (much 'lime' sold in garden centres is limestone
dust, anyway). A granite dust would be very mildly acidic and might
provide traces of potash. Then there's gabbro, slate etc., a long
list, all different and each contributing it's own suite of trace
elements.


--
Chris

There was an article in one of the papers last week (end)? on this subject,
about a couple running a smallholding somewhere in Scotland. Apparently they
had amazing results producing huge vegetables of very high quality from what
used to be very impoverished land.
They applied large amounts of what was described as Glacial Rock dust
obtained from a local quarry spoil tip, plus some compost from the council.
My memory is very poor nowadays but I think the word Basalt deposits was
mentioned regarding the material, which was stated to have high levels of
nutrients.
The belief was that these nutrients replaced those which had been leeched
from the soil over time.
The pictured results were very impressive. I think the couple grew their
produce organically.

capstan

Rock dust
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:

Adding manure ( I use lots) to the ground I wish to improve will do
no good. It is what I believe is called gravel, with no topsoil at
all. I say believe because my idea of gravel is the sharp edged
small stones that are used for concrete making. This is various
sized pebbles in a very meagre amount of sand and clay.

I suggest a few loads of builders's sand, and a third the amount of
manure. It may not work, but nothing much else will if it doesn't.

I hadn't realised that Broadback was talking about shingly stuff. The
quantity of rock dust needed to give that a reasonably soil-like texture
would need Branson's budget, so sand and fine quarry waste with ground
limestone and muck looks like the only way to go. A few loads of what
builders sometimes dispose of from uneven sites would be good if you can
get it: they may try to call it "topsoil", but you can fairly safely bet
it won't be. They shouldn't charge for that, as you're saving them
dumping costs. I've used it, and had to pull out quite a lot of junk,
but it was manageable.

It also sounds to me like a case for planting pockets. If you don't want
to spend so much money, you could just improve small areas as planting
sites for key plants, and if necessary fill in the gaps as the years go
by.

--
Mike.

Rock dust
 

The message
from Chris Hogg contains these words:

But most people want to know if it will work as a fertiliser, and
I don't think that anyone has presented any useful evidence, so the
jury hasn't even been sent out yet!

It would also depend greatly on the type of rock. Limestone or marble
dust, for example would result in an alkaline 'soil', in the same way
as simply adding lime (much 'lime' sold in garden centres is limestone
dust, anyway). A granite dust would be very mildly acidic and might
provide traces of potash. Then there's gabbro, slate etc., a long
list, all different and each contributing it's own suite of trace
elements.


AIUI the rock used was basalt or some other igneous rock. It's no good
using rock which has been recycled and leached, maybe several times.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rock dust
 

The message
from "capstan" contains these words:

There was an article in one of the papers last week (end)? on this subject,
about a couple running a smallholding somewhere in Scotland.
Apparently they
had amazing results producing huge vegetables of very high quality
from what
used to be very impoverished land.
They applied large amounts of what was described as Glacial Rock dust
obtained from a local quarry spoil tip, plus some compost from the council.
My memory is very poor nowadays but I think the word Basalt deposits was
mentioned regarding the material, which was stated to have high levels of
nutrients.
The belief was that these nutrients replaced those which had been leeched
from the soil over time.
The pictured results were very impressive. I think the couple grew their
produce organically.


This was reported on Radio4 a couple of years ago. I'm glad you've
confirmed my memories of it.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Rock dust
 

Janet Baraclough wrote:
Do you mean the SEER project run by the Camerons, who sell rockdust?
I've been there and met them. Their demonstration garden consisted of
veg planted in vast amounts of municipal compost spread on the hillside
like lazy beds. (something that strangely was not mentioned for several
years on their earlier website). IMHO This made nonsense of their
claims about the rock dust additive (which they sell).
They are now engaged in experiments comparing the effects of bag
fertiliser, manure, compost, and (just) rockdust applied to grassland,
no accredited results published yet afaik.
http://www.seercentre.org.uk/origina...acre-site.html

But their work and experiments are about the decontamination of land
with too much previous chemical use. They've demonstrated that the
rockdust eliminate the chemicals (somehow) and gave evidence of
projects over many years.

Rock dust
 

In article ,
Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

AIUI the rock used was basalt or some other igneous rock. It's no good
using rock which has been recycled and leached, maybe several times.

That is true, but that applies mainly to sandstones and similar.
Sedimentary rocks that derive from estuary and sea bottom mud
(including some limestones) are probably also fairly good.

But, really, almost everyone is agreeing that it is a perfectly
good way to make soil from new, but is not a miracle ingredient,
and is very dubiously useful as a fertiliser - EVEN basalt dust.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.