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#1
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can
remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet) that can grow with it. Bell |
#2
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
"Annabel" wrote in message I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet) that can grow with it. Why not use a Glyphosate weedkiller (Roundup) to do the job, no need to be worried about the use of such degradable chemicals in a flower border. -- Bob www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in Runnymede fighting for it's existence. |
#3
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
"Annabel" wrote in message ... I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet) that can grow with it. IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real thugs such as Japanese anemone! Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the patience of a saint and a back of iron! Glyphosate today. Weedol on the same next Friday Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today. Repeat! Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too! pk ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can compete with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist! |
#4
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote: "Annabel" wrote in message ... I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet) that can grow with it. IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real thugs such as Japanese anemone! In my experience, lots of things! Anything that is deep rooted and can take the summer waterlessness caused by the ground elder should be OK. But most of those grow rather larger than a couple of feet, and are often trees or large shrubs. I agree that growing anything surface rooted is a complete waste of time until you have eliminated the ground elder. Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the patience of a saint and a back of iron! I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run under paving slabs etc. Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar. Glyphosate today. Weedol on the same next Friday Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today. Repeat! Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too! I find it one of the more resistant plants, and it seems to laugh off my applications. But it seems to work a bit better as the weather warms up - on ground elder, glyphosate seems to block the water transport to some extent but not the photosynthesis. As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate. Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#5
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
Nick Maclaren wrote: In article , Paul Kelly wrote: IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real thugs such as Japanese anemone! In my experience, lots of things! Anything that is deep rooted and can take the summer waterlessness caused by the ground elder should be OK. But most of those grow rather larger than a couple of feet, and are often trees or large shrubs. Most things that can grow and ignore it are shrubs, but ISTR one of the marigold family produces its own herbicide and is supposed to be able to take the stuff on and win. I've not tried it myself. I agree that growing anything surface rooted is a complete waste of time until you have eliminated the ground elder. Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the patience of a saint and a back of iron! I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run under paving slabs etc. The odd bit breaks off and regrows. I find the best approach is a combination of chemical hits with glyphosate about once a month and strimming after a fortnight. The remains can be dug out and are so weakened that any bits you miss are unable to regrow. Never let it get any decent leaves in sunlight and starve the roots out. Enough to clear herbaceous borders in a season. Just needs a steady hand to apply the weedkiller. Or patience to go round lopping off all its leaves. Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar. Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff! Glyphosate today. Weedol on the same next Friday Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today. Repeat! Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too! I find it one of the more resistant plants, and it seems to laugh off my applications. But it seems to work a bit better as the weather warms up - on ground elder, glyphosate seems to block the water transport to some extent but not the photosynthesis. Hit it regularly with slightly over diluted glyphosate. And hit any regrowth after a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter whether you strim it or use chemical attack the object ist to stop it putting any food into the roots. As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate. Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go. Starve it for a while and then dig out the remains. On the edge of a lawn even repeated close crop mowing will get it. I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible. Regards, Martin Brown |
#6
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , Paul Kelly wrote: "Annabel" wrote in message As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate. Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go. yep. I seems to work very well. When you kill off the green tops, the roots demand feeding quickly and send out new top growth, if you then hit that hew growth with glyphosate it is translocated most effectively. I cleared a large rockery completely over a single season a few years ago. Every time the roots demand food, feed them glyphosate! pk |
#7
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the patience of a saint and a back of iron! I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run under paving slabs etc. The odd bit breaks off and regrows. I find the best approach is a combination of chemical hits with glyphosate about once a month and strimming after a fortnight. The remains can be dug out and are so weakened that any bits you miss are unable to regrow. Never let it get any decent leaves in sunlight and starve the roots out. With an active vegetable patch, you can remove all the bits you see when you dig it over (typically twice a year), and then remove bits that regrow by hand with as much root as possible without disturbing the vegetables. I find that it goes within a couple of years like that, with little extra effort. Of course, starting from a badly infested plot, I used your method. I can believe that the carpet/black polythene trick works, too, and you can also kill it with grass if there is enough light. I am currently expanding my vegetable patch a little, and will see how I do just digging - but I shall be planting potatoes there! Enough to clear herbaceous borders in a season. Just needs a steady hand to apply the weedkiller. Or patience to go round lopping off all its leaves. I have tried that a couple of times, and failed. Not dismally, but I still failed. With bindweed, I failed dismally. Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff! That I can believe. My garden is too dry for it, thank heavens. On the edge of a lawn even repeated close crop mowing will get it. The key there is light. It is a woodland plant, and will compete with grass in shade, but rapidly gets swamped in open conditions. We cut back a looming holly, and the ground elder has almost gone in 8 months with no further effort. I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible. It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the amount of water. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#8
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article , Martin Brown
writes Nick Maclaren wrote: In article , Paul Kelly wrote: Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar. Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff! A few years back I came across a few shoots of horsetail just near the hedge and into the lawn. I was filled with panic! Anyway, I pulled the shoots up (they broke just below ground level) and thought 'well, at least I'll make sure it doesn't spread'. And I did that every time I saw a bit. Last year I waited for it to reappear, and it didn't. Mind, that was only a tiny bit - I wonder if it can be controlled provided it hasn't already got a good hold? I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible. That could be the answer to my horsetail. We're on wet clay. Bindweed is always with me, but it doesn't bother me - I just heave it off plants where I'd rather it wasn't, leave it in the hedge, or not, as the mood takes me. The thing that is driving me potty is dandelions - I have stopped putting them on the compost heap and bin them instead. And the small willowherb. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
#9
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the amount of water. Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big white one is very happy in my wet soil. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
#10
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can compete with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist! I've got that already, sighhhhhhh:-) |
#11
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote: In article , Nick Maclaren writes It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the amount of water. Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big white one is very happy in my wet soil. The little pink one. The big white one grows here, but isn't a serious weed - in particular, it weakens very fast if you keep cutting it down. This is why the little pink one is called field bindweed and the large white one hedge bindweed - the latter will not survive long in fields. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#12
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
Nick Maclaren wrote: In article , Kay Easton wrote: In article , Nick Maclaren writes It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the amount of water. Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big white one is very happy in my wet soil. The little pink one. Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the big white one. I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an ornamental. The big white one grows here, but isn't a serious weed - in particular, it weakens very fast if you keep cutting it down. Not here it doesn't. It is the big white climbing one that can hide inside established shrubs that gives me the most trouble. Easy enough to see off in open ground but a real PITA in established borders. This is why the little pink one is called field bindweed and the large white one hedge bindweed - the latter will not survive long in fields. Both would be nice plants if they weren't invasive. I grow their more colourful tropical cousins intentionally. Regards, Martin Brown |
#13
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article , Martin Brown
writes Nick Maclaren wrote: In article , Kay Easton wrote: In article , Nick Maclaren writes It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the amount of water. Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big white one is very happy in my wet soil. The little pink one. Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the big white one. Yes, on clay, like you, I have trouble with the white one. Though pulling out a yard and a half of thick root in one go is very satisfying :-) I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an ornamental. Lucky you! Despite introducing it, I can't get it to grow at all! I love the scent of it. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
#14
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article , Annabel
writes ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can compete with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist! I've got that already, sighhhhhhh:-) So've I. I thought I'd be safe growing it in a foot wide gap between garage and stone wall - I'd be able to control it at roof height. In fact, I was safer than I thought - after 4 years, it is *still* only 15 inches high! -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
#15
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Ground elder & plants to grow with it
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote: In article , Martin Brown writes Nick Maclaren wrote: Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big white one is very happy in my wet soil. The little pink one. Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the big white one. Yes, on clay, like you, I have trouble with the white one. Though pulling out a yard and a half of thick root in one go is very satisfying :-) I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an ornamental. Lucky you! Despite introducing it, I can't get it to grow at all! I love the scent of it. I think we have some fairly convincing evidence (though not, of course, proof) of soil dependence! It would be extremely interesting to see a botanical/horticultural book on weed issues in the UK, describing the circumstances under which particular species are likely to be a pest. There is a lot more to this topic than most people realise. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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