Hi,

I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Thanks for your help and advice.

I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Thanks for your help and advice.


Personally I wouldn't put it on a veg patch - especially near salad crops or
vegetables eaten raw where there is more chance of eating salmonella contaminated
food.
I'd still be reluctant to put it around flowers as well.
I suspect that the commercially available "pelleted chicken manure" has been
sterilised.
--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:39:37 +0100, wrote:

Hi,

I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Thanks for your help and advice.


I speak as a very amateur gardener but as an ex-professional
bacteriologist who dealt with salmonella every day of my working life.

1. Due to testing and vaccination Samonella enteritidis in eggs is (it
is to be hoped) becomimg a thing of the past. But the many, many other
species of Salmonella (that don't get into the eggs) are not tested
for nor vaccinated against. The advice we always gave was to treat
fresh chicken in the kitchen as you would treat a fresh turd! Assume
it's infectious and wipe up after.

2. Salmonella sp. are one of the easiest bugs to kill. A temperature
of 60 degrees Celcius does it, so does drying out. It is not very
resilient once out of its natural environment.

3. If the stuff is coming fresh from the shed floor I suggest you
compost it first: it will heat up to way beyond 60 if you have a
decent quantity. This will make it perfectly safe.

4. And/or dry it very well.

5. The few live bacteria that might get onto salad leaves are very
unlikely to infect you, especially if you are a healthy adult. It
takes quite a high dose to make you ill. Take more care with, infants,
the elderley and anyone whose immune system is compromised.

6. You are far more likely to infected by poultry that is improperly
cooked or from cold meat that has been cross-contaminated. To reach
infectious levels the bugs need to breed on a nutritious substrate
(e.g. meat).

7. You could be even more cautious by using the manure as a compost
accelerator/enricher i.e. mixing it with your grass-cuttings etc. The
heap will get VERY hot!

8. I have a small flock of chickens in the garden and use them for
ground clearance between crops (i.e. depositing fresh droppings).
Frankly, it never occurs to me to worry! Relax!
--
Derek Turner

Outlook Express is worth precisely what you paid for it.

"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:39:37 +0100, wrote:
Snip

1. Due to testing and vaccination Samonella enteritidis in eggs is (it
is to be hoped) becomimg a thing of the past. But the many, many other
species of Salmonella (that don't get into the eggs) are not tested
for nor vaccinated against. The advice we always gave was to treat
fresh chicken in the kitchen as you would treat a fresh turd! Assume
it's infectious and wipe up after.

2. snip

I'll never be able to look at a bit of chicken in the same way again :-) -
thanks for the sound advice!

Chris S

In article ,
Derek Turner wrote:

I speak as a very amateur gardener but as an ex-professional
bacteriologist who dealt with salmonella every day of my working life.

5. The few live bacteria that might get onto salad leaves are very
unlikely to infect you, especially if you are a healthy adult. It
takes quite a high dose to make you ill. Take more care with, infants,
the elderley and anyone whose immune system is compromised.

I wish that you could have some influence on our infernal government
and media :-(

Even excluding the fact that Chief Bullshit Advisers are paid to
prostitute their scientific reputations, the coverage leads even
many educated people to believe that Salmonella should be considered
as comparable to typhoid or even cholera. And that E. coli (generally,
not just 0157) is a disease :-(

And recent research indicates that preventing children (not infants)
from being exposed to minor infections like Salmonella can lead to more
serious problems in later life. This isn't yet proven, as far as I
know, but the evidence seems fairly convincing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Derek Turner wrote:

I speak as a very amateur gardener but as an ex-professional
bacteriologist who dealt with salmonella every day of my working life.

5. The few live bacteria that might get onto salad leaves are very
unlikely to infect you, especially if you are a healthy adult. It
takes quite a high dose to make you ill. Take more care with, infants,
the elderley and anyone whose immune system is compromised.

Hurrah!

Mary

Thus spake (Nick Maclaren)



Even excluding the fact that Chief Bullshit Advisers are paid to
prostitute their scientific reputations, the coverage leads even
many educated people to believe that Salmonella should be considered
as comparable to typhoid or even cholera. And that E. coli (generally,
not just 0157) is a disease :-(


Ummm... Typhoid and paratyphoid are caused by Salmonella species.

I had to laugh a the 'Microban' treated electric kettles in the Index
catalogue though.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In article ,
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
Thus spake (Nick Maclaren)

Even excluding the fact that Chief Bullshit Advisers are paid to
prostitute their scientific reputations, the coverage leads even
many educated people to believe that Salmonella should be considered
as comparable to typhoid or even cholera. And that E. coli (generally,
not just 0157) is a disease :-(

Ummm... Typhoid and paratyphoid are caused by Salmonella species.

A good point! But not the species that are endemic in fish, eggs and
so on, which are the ones normally referred to as Salmonella. We are
well adapted to those.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 5 Apr 2003 11:57:46 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


Ummm... Typhoid and paratyphoid are caused by Salmonella species.

A good point! But not the species that are endemic in fish, eggs and
so on, which are the ones normally referred to as Salmonella. We are
well adapted to those.

IIRC S. typhi and S. paratyphi are (always? nearly always?) passed
from human to human via faecal contamination rather than being 'food
poisoning' in the usually-accepted sense. Now wash your hands please!

Cholera, too, is very unlikely to be contracted by a healthy
well-nourished adult. Its association with slums has more to do with
nutrition than hygiene.
--
Derek Turner

Outlook Express is worth precisely what you paid for it.

In article ,
Derek Turner wrote:
On 5 Apr 2003 11:57:46 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Ummm... Typhoid and paratyphoid are caused by Salmonella species.

A good point! But not the species that are endemic in fish, eggs and
so on, which are the ones normally referred to as Salmonella. We are
well adapted to those.

IIRC S. typhi and S. paratyphi are (always? nearly always?) passed
from human to human via faecal contamination rather than being 'food
poisoning' in the usually-accepted sense. Now wash your hands please!

Shades of the probability that Lister's original antisepsis worked,
not by disinfecting the air, but by disinfecting the surgeon's hands!

Cholera, too, is very unlikely to be contracted by a healthy
well-nourished adult. Its association with slums has more to do with
nutrition than hygiene.

Interesting. Not what I had been led to believe.

So, from a gardener's viewpoint, cleaning vegetables for eating raw
really is a matter of eliminating the cat/dog/etc. carried parasites,
and has nothing whatsoever to do with what we were told it should be
done for. Admittedly, there are even nastier parasites in the tropics,
where the recommendation was to wash salads in potassium permanganate.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...
I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Thanks for your help and advice.


Personally I wouldn't put it on a veg patch - especially near salad crops
or
vegetables eaten raw where there is more chance of eating salmonella
contaminated
food.
I'd still be reluctant to put it around flowers as well.
I suspect that the commercially available "pelleted chicken manure" has
been
sterilised.
--

Chicken feed pellets would be conditioned to 80C plus to kill the bugs, not
entirely sure on the pelleted manure, but I'd guess it would need 50C or so
just to get enough steam in to form the pellet.

Al

Thus spake (Nick Maclaren)


In article ,
Derek Turner wrote:
On 5 Apr 2003 11:57:46 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Ummm... Typhoid and paratyphoid are caused by Salmonella species.

A good point! But not the species that are endemic in fish, eggs and
so on, which are the ones normally referred to as Salmonella. We are
well adapted to those.

IIRC S. typhi and S. paratyphi are (always? nearly always?) passed
from human to human via faecal contamination rather than being 'food
poisoning' in the usually-accepted sense. Now wash your hands please!

Shades of the probability that Lister's original antisepsis worked,
not by disinfecting the air, but by disinfecting the surgeon's hands!

Cholera, too, is very unlikely to be contracted by a healthy
well-nourished adult. Its association with slums has more to do with
nutrition than hygiene.

Interesting. Not what I had been led to believe.

The only thing any of my cohort can remember about cholera was the Prof
who said
"Cholera is not a fatal disease, provided you keep the patient alive."

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

The only thing any of my cohort can remember about cholera was the Prof
who said
"Cholera is not a fatal disease, provided you keep the patient alive."

What I remember is the journalists' saying:

"Cholera out, choldera in."

A bit like GIGO, in fact exactly like GIGO with the emphasis reversed.

Mary

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Compost it properly and its safe.
--
Chris Thomas
West Cork
Ireland

in article , at
wrote on 5/4/03 8:39 am:

Hi,

I've been offered an ample supply of chicken manure. Its fresh off the
shed floor so has straw etc mixed into it and it hasnt been treated.

Is it safe to use on a flower and veg patch?

My mum reckons its not safe. She mentioned something about salmonela.

Thanks for your help and advice.


You need to leave it in a heap somewhere so that it can rot down a bit.
Unrotted chicken manure can scorch roots. What you *can* do with it now is
dilute it well in buckets of water and then use it on your veg. patch and
flowers. A year after we moved our chicken run, we planted potatoes in that
area and had a fabulous crop!
--
Sacha