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Old 21-03-2006, 10:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
George.com
 
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Default No dig gardens

Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


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Old 21-03-2006, 11:29 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
George.com
 
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Default No dig gardens


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "George.com" contains these words:

Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.


You'll find much discussion in the google archives of newgroup
alt.permacultur, including contributors from the antipodes.

I've used it for years (in Scotland). A quick easy way to star is to
cover weedy undug ground with flattened cardboard cartons. (If you live
in a dry climate, do this after a good rainfall). Cut an X and fold back
the card where you wish to grow plants, potatoes etc. Cover the
cardboard with 6" of compostable degradeable material such as lawn
clippings, dead leaves, manure, chopped comfrey, straw, seaweed,
bracken, sheep-shearing waste, used animal bedding, and keep topping it
up as it disappears. If you haven't got quite enough mulch material to
completely cover the newly laid cardboard, use planks or stones to stop
it blowing away, keep it in close contact with the earth, and exclude
light from weeds. Keep adding more mulch material as you acquire it .
Within weeks, whatever mixture you mulched with will be uniformly brown
and the whole thing looks neat and tidy.

. The cardboard smothers existing weeds and prevent germination of their
seeds; by the end of a season worms will have digested all the cardboard
and its covering and enriched the soil. The worm population will have
multiplied, and birds will spend a lot of time turning over the mulch to
find worms, helping to break it down and scarify the soil surface. The
following season the soil will be clean enough for direct seedsowing.
Keep covering any bare soil with mulches and topping them up as worms
take them down. A very few weeds may come through the mulch, tweak them
out and lay them on top of it to die.


exactly the process I intend to use Janet to make my new vege garden but
will be making a raised garden, easier on the back. The chuck anything in
and let in break down into soil is a great process. I can see it taking some
months to build the soil structure, including some forking and turning, but
once it is set onew of the issues of the no dig I am attracted to is the
(supposed, and I have not seen evidence to suggest anythign different) self
regulating process of the soil and the low maintenance than say a double dug
or intensive garden.

rob


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Old 21-03-2006, 11:33 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
George.com
 
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Default No dig gardens


"simy1" wrote in message
oups.com...
In regard to leaving spent plants in place, it works if the rotation is
strict. You leave tomatoes in a patch because you know there will be no
tomatoes there next year.


can you explain a little more this concept please?

rob


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Old 21-03-2006, 12:18 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
George.com
 
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Default No dig gardens


"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance

following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.


thanks Derek. I cross posted to try and get a range of views, rather than
post in each NG in turn. It is a bit of a walk to Warwickshire from here,
being New Zealand. The UK garden NG is quite a good one for me as the
weather/environment is quite similar to here.

rob


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Old 21-03-2006, 12:59 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
George.com
 
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Default No dig gardens


"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


perhaps a point of clarification needed here, my original explaination may
not have been specific enough. It is not the proces of constructing a no dig
garden I am wondering about, through thanks to those who have made usueful
suggestions in that area. It is actually in the process of gardening,
propogating, rearing plants using a no dig approach, no tillage of the soil,
low input, low labour, 'do nothing' process. What got be interested
initially was this guys thoughts

Masanobu Fukuoka http://larryhaftl.com/ffo/fover.html

It sounded like a really good lazy way (and sustainable) of growing veges n
herbs. I have only started experimenting.

The way my dad and grandad used to do vege gardens of digging in compost and
manure every year, digging over weeds, spending hours preparing beds seemed
labour intensive. They seemed to need to constantly put back nutrients into
the soil as the process of rearing veges stripped the nutrients out.
Moreover the more I read the more is suggested that constantly tilling the
soil to nay significant depth actually damages the soil structure and its
potency.

Fukuoka says that leaving the nutrients where they are greatly reduces this
robbing of the soils vitality and nature and worms will dig organic matter
in to the soil for you. That sounds good in theory, I hope someone has
matched it in reality and can report on that.

rob




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Old 22-03-2006, 11:24 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Derek Turner
 
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Default No dig gardens

George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.
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Old 22-03-2006, 12:20 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Derek Turner
 
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Default No dig gardens

George.com wrote:
"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance

following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.


thanks Derek. I cross posted to try and get a range of views, rather than
post in each NG in turn. It is a bit of a walk to Warwickshire from here,
being New Zealand. The UK garden NG is quite a good one for me as the
weather/environment is quite similar to here.

rob


OK you can always visit online! the Henry Doubleday Research Association
(HDRA) own and run Ryton where there is a no-dig demonstration garden.
I've tried it: it works (in my case slowly). I used a bulb planter to
plant potatoes and then used horticultural paper and lawn-clippings.
Everything else went into earth that had been overwintered under porous
weed-suppressing membrane then spread with well-rotted cowshit and some
home-made compost. I used a rake to loosen the surface. Obviously
lifting the potatoes might count as digging to a purist! I found that it
took four years (i.e. a whole crop rotation) to get the earth (heavy
clay meadow) into something like good heart. Now I get nettles and am
soooo proud!

hth
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Old 22-03-2006, 01:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
JennyC
 
Posts: n/a
Default No dig gardens


"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


Interesting concept !!
Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~)

Seems to be a big thing in Australia, in fact there are courses a stones throws
away from you:
http://www.waverley.nsw.gov.au/counc...odiggarden.asp

More info and how to:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/pu...rth/garden.htm

Even the RHS has info on it:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/p..._garden_0299_d
ig.asp

and of course Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_dig_gardening

Do keep us posted on your efforts. Pictures would be good .........
Jenny





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Old 22-03-2006, 02:12 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
La Puce
 
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Default No dig gardens


JennyC wrote:
Interesting concept !!
Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~)


Really?! Where have you been?! ;o)

This is my second year - kept all the legumes (broad beans, peas,
beans) bed as it is but clean up a bit by just taking out the wires,
mesh and poles. Kept all the plants there and they have all decomposed
on top, giving the top surface a smooth dark tilth, which I just raked
lightly, for my cucurbitas this year. The potatoes this year will be
covered with straw and grass and on the new plot (given to me recently
by the committee ouuerr...) I'll use one bed for spuds using the
traditional method to see which one is best. Where the potatoes where
last year I have just kept as it is, won't touch anything beside raking
a bit to level. My legumes will go in there. My neighbour has started
this process 3 years ago - she uses chicken pooh and tonnes of grass
clipings. Her veg patch received an award last week end for the
previous summer. Our tribe got praised for the creation of Edward
Twigorhands, a very elaborate (and realistic) scarecrow and an award
for my wild flower patch blush

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Old 22-03-2006, 02:41 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
 
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Default No dig gardens

The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No Digging, No
Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza

My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a visit and she became
a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad back already. \
Ingrid



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Old 22-03-2006, 08:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Charlie Pridham
 
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Default No dig gardens


"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob

We operate a no dig policy for the whole garden, started as a way of
avoiding disturbing the subsoil which is very high in arsenic but we quickly
found things grew better and we had less weeds (and a lot less slug and
snail damage - except underground with potatoes)
We use a shredder and everything goes back on green i.e. uncomposted. Been
doing it 20+ years with no problems (but I do have thin poor soil)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)


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Old 23-03-2006, 12:14 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
 
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Default No dig gardens

oh yeah. mom didnt meet him tho. my stepfather knew him tho. Ingrid

"Mike Lyle" wrote:

wrote:
The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No
Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza

My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a
visit and she became a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad
back already. \
Ingrid


Rex Stout, as in Nero Wolfe?




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
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Old 23-03-2006, 03:24 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
simy1
 
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Default No dig gardens

sure, in fact it is the only form of gardening I practice. details
below.

George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables


You have to rake clean those parts of the garden where you expect to
broadcast seeds directly.

leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed


I allow mache, arugula, and miner lettuce (plus purslane, a weed) to
self-seed. They are cold weather small greens that can grow
uncospicuously when nothing else grows, or in the shade of bigger
plants.

using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil


of course. I even try to plan two years ahead. If I know there will be
big plants for two years in a bed, I tend to use wood chips, which will
decompose slowly. If I want the bed clean next year, I use leaves that
disappear in a year

using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil


no. I have plenty of the real manure.

crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc


yes, but typically only two years rotation.


Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


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