wrote
over here in Ireland plastic shopping bags used to be everywhere;
we have bad litter problems and the plastic bags were a very visible
sign of that; you got them all over roadsides and in hedges and fences
etc. We spent years trying to ask people to use re-usable bags or
boxes etc. That had almost no effect but it did allow me to feel very
superior everytime I asked for no bag and used my backsack for small
purchases. Eventually, the solution was very direct and simple. It
became illegal to give plastic bags away for shopping. You could
still get them but you had to ask for them and pay a tiny fee (15cents
a bag or so). It worked overnight. They have disappeared from the
countryside (at least the fresh ones have). Now, whenever you go to
the supermarked, you have to remember to bring 4 or 5 reusable ones
(made of cloth/canvas of some kind and that last about a year) or get
boxes or buy your bags. At first you can never remember to bring teh
bags; now it is second nature. It really worked.

Yes I think that would certainly change things. I agree it's awful to
see the amount of plastic blowing around and stuck in roadside hedges
etc but sadly it's true that it takes a charge, however small, to
concentrate people's minds on not being careless with most resources.
I'm sure it would encourage me to remember to take bags to reuse more
often. I can't see the big supermarkets doing it here on their own
initiative though, as they'd each be wary of the others gaining some
advantage in pricing, so it probably would need legislating for. When
you think about it lots of seemingly minor law changes like that could
have quite big results in lots of ways.

--
Sue

The message ews.net
from "Sue" contains these words:

Yes I think that would certainly change things. I agree it's awful to
see the amount of plastic blowing around and stuck in roadside hedges
etc but sadly it's true that it takes a charge, however small, to
concentrate people's minds on not being careless with most resources.
I'm sure it would encourage me to remember to take bags to reuse more
often. I can't see the big supermarkets doing it here on their own
initiative though, as they'd each be wary of the others gaining some
advantage in pricing, so it probably would need legislating for.

The Co-op (and Sainsbury iirc) provides "bags for life" for a
single payment of 10 p each. It's strong plastic and lasts multiple
uses; when it wears out they give you a new one in exchange for the old
one which is recycled.

If you buy 6 bottles of wine the Co-op provide free , even stronger
foldable bags with divisions for 6 bottles. With the internal sections
cut out, those bags last indefinitely. For the diehards who use neither,
their flimsiest plastic carriers are biodegradeable.

We used to carry car-shopping home in used cardboard cartons but
supermarkets here are no longer allowed to keep them stacked where the
public can take one..fire hazard or some such rubbish.

Janet.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message ews.net
from "Sue" contains these words:

Yes I think that would certainly change things. I agree it's awful to
see the amount of plastic blowing around and stuck in roadside hedges
etc but sadly it's true that it takes a charge, however small, to
concentrate people's minds on not being careless with most resources.
I'm sure it would encourage me to remember to take bags to reuse more
often. I can't see the big supermarkets doing it here on their own
initiative though, as they'd each be wary of the others gaining some
advantage in pricing, so it probably would need legislating for.

The Co-op (and Sainsbury iirc) provides "bags for life" for a
single payment of 10 p each. It's strong plastic and lasts multiple
uses; when it wears out they give you a new one in exchange for the old
one which is recycled.

If you buy 6 bottles of wine the Co-op provide free , even stronger
foldable bags with divisions for 6 bottles. With the internal sections
cut out, those bags last indefinitely. For the diehards who use neither,
their flimsiest plastic carriers are biodegradeable.

We used to carry car-shopping home in used cardboard cartons but
supermarkets here are no longer allowed to keep them stacked where the
public can take one..fire hazard or some such rubbish.


clearly, in your case, you already do the right thing. In Ireland
quite a few people used to do this but the great majority (like in UK I
presume) did not and plastic bags got everywhere. Now most people do
it like you and all it took was a small law change.
It really worked (make it illegal to give plastic bags for nothing; you
must charge for them).


Janet.

The message .com
from contains these words:


clearly, in your case, you already do the right thing. In Ireland
quite a few people used to do this but the great majority (like in UK I
presume) did not and plastic bags got everywhere. Now most people do
it like you and all it took was a small law change.
It really worked (make it illegal to give plastic bags for nothing; you
must charge for them).

I don't dispute it worked, only (Sue's claim) that UK supermarkets
will take no action unless forced: they already do take action. IMHO
the problem is that so many of the public, given a choice, choose
mess. Its the public who won't stop littering unless forced.


Janet

. Its the public who won't stop littering unless forced.


Janet

MESS!!! You have seen nothing unless you have been to Sri Lanka. We called
in at Colombo on our recent Round the World Cruise on Aurora and we were
shocked at the litter and mess in the streets. And what did they do when it
got tooooooooooooooo bad? Pile it up against a wall/lampost/telephone pole
and set fire to it!!!

By the way Janet, you may recall you took a poke at me before I left on the
World Cruise, and put the report up about Aurora's 2005 World Cruise
problems, well I am delighted to say that the World Cruise this year, all 3
months of it, went off without a hitch :-))

Mike


--
------------------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
International Festival of the Sea 28th June - 1st July 2007

Janet Baraclough writes
The message .com
from contains these words:


clearly, in your case, you already do the right thing. In Ireland
quite a few people used to do this but the great majority (like in UK I
presume) did not and plastic bags got everywhere. Now most people do
it like you and all it took was a small law change.
It really worked (make it illegal to give plastic bags for nothing; you
must charge for them).

I don't dispute it worked, only (Sue's claim) that UK supermarkets
will take no action unless forced: they already do take action.

They haven't taken the critical action of withdrawing the free plastic
bags.

IMHO
the problem is that so many of the public, given a choice, choose
mess. Its the public who won't stop littering unless forced.

And well meaning initiatives like not allowing traders to dump their
waste free at recycling centres knocks on to more illegal dumping on
'waste ground' - aka green space in our urban centres.
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
Janet Baraclough writes
The message .com
from contains these words:
It really worked (make it illegal to give plastic bags for nothing;
you must charge for them).

I don't dispute it worked, only (Sue's claim) that UK supermarkets
will take no action unless forced: they already do take action.

They haven't taken the critical action of withdrawing the free plastic
bags.
snip

Yes, those were the ones I meant. I believe Lidl charge for the flimsy
carriers (or used to) but I can't see any of the Big Boys doing so
unforced, unless by some miracle they can all agree to do it
simultaneously.

The 'bag for life' was a good initiative, I agree, and perhaps needs
some re-promotion. I've had them from Sainsbury's and Waitrose and they
really do last and last.

--
Sue

K wrote:
Janet Baraclough writes

I don't dispute it worked, only (Sue's claim) that UK supermarkets
will take no action unless forced: they already do take action.

They haven't taken the critical action of withdrawing the free plastic
bags.

It's not a supermarket, but I'd like to draw attention to B&Q, which
withdrew free plastic bags over a year ago – mainly as a cost saving but
also for the environmental benefits. I've noted on recent visits that
the lack of bags doesn't appear to bother people. I was also in
Homebase today and they didn't offer me a bag (for my one small item)
either.

Rhiannon

On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:42:02 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote:

It's not a supermarket, but I'd like to draw attention to B&Q, which
withdrew free plastic bags over a year ago – mainly as a cost saving but
also for the environmental benefits. I've noted on recent visits that
the lack of bags doesn't appear to bother people. I was also in
Homebase today and they didn't offer me a bag (for my one small item)
either.

Which is all jolly lovely if you happen to have turned up in your car
and you can push your purchases on a trolley to load up. Not providing
bags other than those of thimble size is hopeless for people who may be
walking, cycling or taking public transport (the more environmentally
friendly forms of transport) who need something convenient to carry
their purchases home in. And yes if it was a planned visit you might
take a bag with you but their policy does not work if the visit is an
impromptu one.

Something tells me they have their environmental priorities back to
front if they continue to locate themselves in places best served by
cars but then ration plastic bags for those people who have legitimate
need of them.
--
Paul C

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:42:02 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote:

It's not a supermarket, but I'd like to draw attention to B&Q, which
withdrew free plastic bags over a year ago – mainly as a cost saving but
also for the environmental benefits. I've noted on recent visits that
the lack of bags doesn't appear to bother people. I was also in
Homebase today and they didn't offer me a bag (for my one small item)
either.

Which is all jolly lovely if you happen to have turned up in your car
and you can push your purchases on a trolley to load up. Not providing
bags other than those of thimble size is hopeless for people who may be
walking, cycling or taking public transport (the more environmentally
friendly forms of transport) who need something convenient to carry
their purchases home in.

As one who has done quite a bit of shopping by bike in the past, I can
say that plastic bags are not the easiest of carriers to use on a bike.
Most people who cycle regularly will have a rucksack or panniers.

(Actually, my local B&Q has put up a wire bin by the door which is full
of bags from other shops, presumably brought there by customers. It's
good because there is a dearth of facilities to recycle placcies around
here.)

Rhiannon

Paul Corfield writes
On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:42:02 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote:

It's not a supermarket, but I'd like to draw attention to B&Q, which
withdrew free plastic bags over a year ago – mainly as a cost saving but
also for the environmental benefits. I've noted on recent visits that
the lack of bags doesn't appear to bother people. I was also in
Homebase today and they didn't offer me a bag (for my one small item)
either.

Which is all jolly lovely if you happen to have turned up in your car
and you can push your purchases on a trolley to load up. Not providing
bags other than those of thimble size is hopeless for people who may be
walking, cycling or taking public transport (the more environmentally
friendly forms of transport) who need something convenient to carry
their purchases home in. And yes if it was a planned visit you might
take a bag with you but their policy does not work if the visit is an
impromptu one.


A small charge (say 10p) would be a deterrent to picking up half a dozen
plastic bags with your weekly shop, and might be enough persuade you to
tuck a bag in your pocket on a planned shop, but won't break the bank if
you finding yourself needing to make an unplanned purchase.
--
Kay

On Sun, 07 May 2006 14:18:50 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote:

[non polluting transport to and from B&Q]

As one who has done quite a bit of shopping by bike in the past, I can
say that plastic bags are not the easiest of carriers to use on a bike.
Most people who cycle regularly will have a rucksack or panniers.

Agreed - panniers are the more effective solution. I think garden
related transport via rucksack might be a tad difficult.

--
Paul C

On Sun, 7 May 2006 14:22:43 +0100, K wrote:

Paul Corfield writes
On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:42:02 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote:

It's not a supermarket, but I'd like to draw attention to B&Q, which
withdrew free plastic bags over a year ago – mainly as a cost saving but
also for the environmental benefits. I've noted on recent visits that
the lack of bags doesn't appear to bother people. I was also in
Homebase today and they didn't offer me a bag (for my one small item)
either.

Which is all jolly lovely if you happen to have turned up in your car
and you can push your purchases on a trolley to load up. Not providing
bags other than those of thimble size is hopeless for people who may be
walking, cycling or taking public transport (the more environmentally
friendly forms of transport) who need something convenient to carry
their purchases home in. And yes if it was a planned visit you might
take a bag with you but their policy does not work if the visit is an
impromptu one.


A small charge (say 10p) would be a deterrent to picking up half a dozen
plastic bags with your weekly shop, and might be enough persuade you to
tuck a bag in your pocket on a planned shop, but won't break the bank if
you finding yourself needing to make an unplanned purchase.

The charge would be fine if the bags were sufficiently strong not to
deteriorate before you get your purchases home. I have two "bags for
life" which normally cope with the weekly shop and get reused each week
as they are up to the task. There is no point in keeping a normal
supermarket or B&Q carrier bag because they are flimsy and drop to bits
and cannot be reused. A charge for something useless would be wrong IMO.
--
Paul C

Paul Corfield writes


The charge would be fine if the bags were sufficiently strong not to
deteriorate before you get your purchases home. I have two "bags for
life" which normally cope with the weekly shop and get reused each week
as they are up to the task. There is no point in keeping a normal
supermarket or B&Q carrier bag because they are flimsy and drop to bits
and cannot be reused. A charge for something useless would be wrong IMO.

They're not useless. They get your shopping home. And IME they can be
reused a few times.
--
Kay