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  #31   Report Post  
Old 03-05-2006, 09:45 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
Andrew Gabriel
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

In article ,
"David W.E. Roberts" writes:
Hi,

cross posted to gardening and DIY as probably relevant to both :-)

My plans to power wash the flags at the back of my Berkshire property have
been thwarted by the hosepipe ban.

As far as I can tell, power washers don't use that much water.

So is it feasible to put a pump in a rain water butt to feed water to the
power washer?

Has anyone tried this?


Yes -- I connect a pressure washer up to my water butt with
a long hose. The only feed pressure is the height of water
in the butt. Actually, my cheap pressure washer has only
ever been used from the water butt. I did wonder if sand
might get into it and wreck the pump, but it's lasted
about 5 years now with no problems. In practice, the sand
tends to have sunk to the dead area in the bottom of the
butt, and doesn't come out of the tap which is a few inches
above that.

I was washing my car this way the first weekend of the hose
pipe ban, and got lots of dirty looks from passers by, who
could only see the hose and pressure washer. I kind of felt
guilty, even though I was doing nothing wrong.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #32   Report Post  
Old 03-05-2006, 09:51 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
bigegg
 
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Mike wrote:

Being true for Thames Water doesn't make it true for other water
companies, though.




Same for Southern Water :-))


Move North.
We have water to spare :.(



--
BigEgg
Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover.
http://www.workshop-projects.com - Books, Articles & Plans
http://www.stores.ebay.co.uk/honyaservices - Tools & Miscellanea
  #34   Report Post  
Old 03-05-2006, 10:33 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
Stan The Man
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

In article , michael adams
wrote:

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
michael adams wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Water companies do not make the law.

Nope.

So long as they don't exceed the powers granted to them by the
privatisiation
legislation, they're as allowed to be as selective as they wish, in

which
particular
provisions they choose to enact.


As far as I know the only things that are banned are washing the
car with a hosepipe, and watering the garden. If you've a pointer
to a legal resource that says different, I'd like to read it, for
interest.



Right now under the 1999 legistlation Water Companies can apply to
introduce compulsory water metering to restrict demand. And at least
one - Dover if not more, has already done so. If things got really bad
Water Companies are empowered to cut off domestic supplies altogether
and install stand pipes. If there was any evidence that the use of
hosepipes for supposedly innocent use was being abused, there's no doubt
whatsover that the use of all hosepipes would be banned forthwith.
And that such an eventuality was anticipated in the legislation,
by a catch-all clause if nowhere else.


The water companies have no power at all to ban all uses of domestic
hosepipes. They do have the power to make exemptions from the
proscribed prohibitions but they don't have the power to add new
prohibitions even in an emergency.

If they need to save more water they _must_ apply for a drought order
to ban so-called non-essential uses which include window washing,
irrigation of parks and sportsgrounds, filling ornamental ponds, etc.
This process takes some weeks - the Secretary of State has to agree and
there has to be a public enquiry. Three water companies applied for
such a drought order a month or so ago but none has yet been granted or
implemented. The next and final step thereafter would be to apply for
an Emergency Drought Order which does give the water compnaies blanket
powers to prohibit any use of water they want - and to make people
queue up at standpipes to collect their water by the bucketfull.

To put things in perspective, the outside tap uses 4% annually of all
water supplied to households. Loo flushing uses 35%. Dishwashers,
washing machines and power showers waste far more water than is ever
put on the garden via a hosepipe.

But the water companies don't have the power - except under an
Emergency Drought Order - to ban uses of water inside the home. That's
because it is classified as essential domestic use and it is their
statutory obligation to supply it, even if most householders waste
gallons of the stuff every day.

Because the outside tap is not classified as 'domestic use' it is a
soft target - indeed the only target for the water companies. But it
isn't an effective one. Hosepipe bans don't save much water. Research
by some of the water companies during the last drought showed that many
households' water consumption _increased_ after a hosepipe ban.
  #35   Report Post  
Old 03-05-2006, 10:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
Guy King
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

The message
from bigegg contains these words:

Move North.
We have water to spare :.(


I was digging around in a concrete post-hole today, trying to get the
remains of a rotten gatepost out. It was sopping wet despite being open
at the bottom to drain. Ah, Slopshire - not for nothing is where we live
called the Wet Mudlands.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.


  #36   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:16 AM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
Stan The Man
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
"David W.E. Roberts" writes:
Hi,

cross posted to gardening and DIY as probably relevant to both :-)

My plans to power wash the flags at the back of my Berkshire property have
been thwarted by the hosepipe ban.

As far as I can tell, power washers don't use that much water.

So is it feasible to put a pump in a rain water butt to feed water to the
power washer?

Has anyone tried this?


Yes -- I connect a pressure washer up to my water butt with
a long hose. The only feed pressure is the height of water
in the butt. Actually, my cheap pressure washer has only
ever been used from the water butt. I did wonder if sand
might get into it and wreck the pump, but it's lasted
about 5 years now with no problems. In practice, the sand
tends to have sunk to the dead area in the bottom of the
butt, and doesn't come out of the tap which is a few inches
above that.

I was washing my car this way the first weekend of the hose
pipe ban, and got lots of dirty looks from passers by, who
could only see the hose and pressure washer. I kind of felt
guilty, even though I was doing nothing wrong.


You have highlighted the main reason why prosecutions under this
legislation won't happen. It's almost impossible to prove that someone
watering his plants with a hose was connected to the mains rather than
a reservoir.

Nothing new there -- there have been no prosecutions under the hosepipe
ban legislation for 40 years. The legislation is bad and the water
companies just make a lot of noise about £1000 fines in the hope that
the publicity will deter people.
  #38   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:58 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
Mark
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post


nightjar .uk.com nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...


http://www.thameswater.co.uk/UK/regi...FAQ_000051.jsp

Washing flags is not explicitly banned, so you wouldn't be prosecuted.
It's a question of conscience.


Being true for Thames Water doesn't make it true for other water
companies, though.


The relevant Act only gives the Water Suppliers the power to prohibit the
use of hose pipes for watering of domestic gardens and for the washing of
private cars. They do not have the powers to impose greater restrictions,
until they get


Until they are granted a drought order.



-

  #39   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:40 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
Chris Bacon
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

The Invalid wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Water companies do not make the law.


Water Companies can make their own rules for usage.

There doesn't need to be any law imposed


Please explain.
  #40   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:02 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
michael adams
 
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"The Invalid" wrote in message
...

On a slight tangent, maybe the forced imposition of standpipes might
alleviate a lot of friction on some estates?


That would simply generate bad PR for the water companies, and the
possibility of nationwide payment strikes.

Many of the water companies are already foreign owned, are heavily
diversified, have leaking pipes, and have a terrible image as it is.

This is the sort of story which could keep the likes of the Sun
and the Mail in headlines for months on end.

The idea of trying to gouge even higher prices out of people as
they queue to draw water out of standpipes in the street, simply
doesn't bear thinking about.

Possible water shortages which are probably a result of higher
per capita consumption and building programmes as much as anything,
are simply the first taste of reality that consumers are going to
have to face up to. Spiralling oil, gas, and electricity prices
won't be that far behind.

IMO, any government that wants to maintain social cohesion in such
circumstances will need to do something to dampen demand across the
board. Don't forget now, you read it here first.


michael adams










  #41   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:21 AM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
Don The Duck
 
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Don't need a pump provided there is at least 3 feet of height for
gravity feed. Did this with brother-in-laws Commercial Steam Cleaner
(45 gal plastic butt on top of 45 gal drum) for washing his artic
lorries. will was 3 lorries WITH trailers before running close to dry.

You MUST filter it though - preferrably twice - as it goes into the
butt to stop big leaves, twigs, dead birds etc, and the mesh from an
old kitchen sieve (or even a cheap new one) over the outlet from the
butt that feeds the washer.

Don't have hosepipe ban problem in sunny??? NE Scotland - just
commercial water meters and charges to remrtgage for!!

  #42   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:27 AM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
David Hansen
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

On Wed, 03 May 2006 18:42:08 +0100 someone who may be Adrian
Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote
this:-

...like running 3 woodburning stoves and then fiddling about with an
air-to-air heat exchanger - rather than running one decent woodburning
stove with boiler & radiators to 'spread' the heat around


They explained that in an earlier programme. One of the reasons for
the ventilation system is to get moisture out of what was a damp
house. In the last programme they said that the house was now much
drier.

It struck me as odd they never built up the adit to keep out surface
water and didn't seem to have a cover to stop windblown litter dropping
in.


One of the latter shots in the programme showed it covered up, with
a door to keep out litter.

No mention of a filter either.


Doesn't mean there is not one.

Having a little wind-genny to drive the pump is also all very well -
but the amount of power consumed by the pump must be pretty small - as
the genny wouldn't have been much more than 200 - 300watts.
OK - so it was all very good on camera - but whether it was
cost-effective.... dunno.....


Like many things of this sort, the simple payback period is probably
a number of years at current prices. However, that is not the only
reason for doing things, if it was few would create flower gardens.

Ah well - I suppose it makes good telly..... g


That seems to partly be the idea and there is nothing wrong with
that.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #43   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:26 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
Ian
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post


"David Hansen" wrote in message
...

Having a little wind-genny to drive the pump is also all very well -
but the amount of power consumed by the pump must be pretty small - as
the genny wouldn't have been much more than 200 - 300watts.
OK - so it was all very good on camera - but whether it was
cost-effective.... dunno.....


Like many things of this sort, the simple payback period is probably
a number of years at current prices. However, that is not the only
reason for doing things, if it was few would create flower gardens.


On the program he said it cost less than a 1/4's water charges to set up the
system.

Ian


  #44   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:47 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
Adrian Brentnall
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

HI Ian

On Thu, 04 May 2006 10:26:42 GMT, "Ian" wrote:


"David Hansen" wrote in message
.. .

Having a little wind-genny to drive the pump is also all very well -
but the amount of power consumed by the pump must be pretty small - as
the genny wouldn't have been much more than 200 - 300watts.
OK - so it was all very good on camera - but whether it was
cost-effective.... dunno.....


Like many things of this sort, the simple payback period is probably
a number of years at current prices. However, that is not the only
reason for doing things, if it was few would create flower gardens.


On the program he said it cost less than a 1/4's water charges to set up the
system.

Ian


Yes - I think I remember that.
I was with him all the way until the wind genny bit - but I guess it
does make for a good bit of TV "all the water and the electricity to
power it is from renewable sources"..

Bit like that lovely water-wheel he built - which appeared to be used
to run only the lighting in the house...

Not knocking the fellow - but, like so many of these programmes,
there's a strong 'directorial' influence - and the entertainment part
always seems to win over the informative.... - or perhaps I'm getting
old and cynical g

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK

======return email munged=================
take out the papers and the trash to reply
  #45   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2006, 02:14 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Janet Baraclough
 
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Default Hosepipe ban, power washer, water butt, pump - X-post

The message
from David Hansen contains these words:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 18:42:08 +0100 someone who may be Adrian
Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote
this:-



Ah well - I suppose it makes good telly..... g


That seems to partly be the idea and there is nothing wrong with
that.


There wouldn't be anything wrong with it, except for the hilarious
degree of Marie Antoinette pretence by the Strawbridges. Changing their
gas-guzzler vehicles might do far more to save the planet and its
resources . It's made very clear that they have a great deal of money
which effortlessly fills and conceals every pitfall and reality gap.
Just a couple of examples;

"We've been thinking about buying our own wood to fuel the stoves".
Meanwhile they burned a huge stack of free heat for fun. Someone else
has already pointed out that their use of three stoves is inefficient..
Heating a far smaller house on one highly efficient woodfired system, we
used between 15 and 20 tons of wood per year The load they took delivery
of, was (at a guess) less than two tons, supposedly to feed 3 stoves
"until Christmas". If that unseasoned wet wood was fit for burning (ie,
giving out optimal heat) , Mrs would not be crouched shivering in
sweaters and scarf beside a stove on full burn, and upstairs would be
roasting, even without the silly air pipes.

They will have burned the lot (for little heat output) long before
winter comes.

Planning regs (which a redevelopment like that can't evade) insist
that a domestic home has a tested potable water supply. Plugging a
hosepipe into a muddy spring and tasting a glassful, gives a very false
impression of the health hoops to be jumped through before bringing
spring water into the domestic system for drinking..or even, it's
advisability. (Particularly, in Cornwall, where I would imagine heavy
metal contamination is likely, and within stonesthrow of other houses
or rural farms and their own livestock, al l of which could have
coeliform runoffs).

One can't help noticing that the adult Strawbridge invariably waft
around with fairies and clipboards, while a changing parade of workers
are paid to do the donkey work in their so-called "self sufficient "
lifestyle :-) Where has the gardening lady gone to?

It's entertaining all right, my only question is, how far are the
Sawbridges aware of the TV producers' real agenda..which is surely,
exposing their pretensions and holding them up to ridicule
..
Janet.


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