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Old 05-08-2006, 12:09 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...




What's wrong with woodpigeons in gardens, anyway?

The mess and the reduction of other wildlife.


Woodpigeons don't reduce other wildlife. They don't predate on any bird,
insect, amphibion or mammal. In my experience they don't cause any mess
either.


But they do destroy my vegetables!


I don't dispute that but cabbages don't usually come under the heading of
wildlife, even the most violent kind.


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Old 05-08-2006, 12:34 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Mary Fisher" wrote
"Sue" wrote
I've threatened to get an air gun, but I'm probably too much of a
softie to use it really.


Well, I do like pigeon breasts ...


If I do start doing Annie Oakley impressions and actually manage to hit
any I'll bear that in mind. ;-)

--
Sue




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Old 05-08-2006, 11:35 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:
| "Alan Holmes" wrote in message
| ...
|
| What's wrong with woodpigeons in gardens, anyway?
|
| The mess and the reduction of other wildlife.
|
| Woodpigeons don't reduce other wildlife. They don't predate on any bird,
| insect, amphibion or mammal. In my experience they don't cause any mess
| either.

Predation is not the only way in which one vertebrate species can reduce
others. As I posted, there is a speculation that the increase in either
or both of them and collared doves is a factor in the reduction of sparrows.

But, overall in the UK, I agree that they are probably more of a nuisance
to humans than harmful to any other species. They cause some mess in my
garden, but nothing to get excited about.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:05 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Mary Fisher" wrote
"Sue" wrote
I've threatened to get an air gun, but I'm probably too much of a
softie to use it really.


Well, I do like pigeon breasts ...


If I do start doing Annie Oakley impressions and actually manage to hit
any I'll bear that in mind. ;-)


LOL! I'll take you up on that.

Mary

--
Sue






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Old 05-08-2006, 07:22 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Mary Fisher wrote:
...... magpies, I've seen them
take fledgling collar doves.

They can have some of the ones round here, if they want. Like rats
this year



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Old 06-08-2006, 12:40 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...




What's wrong with woodpigeons in gardens, anyway?

The mess and the reduction of other wildlife.

Woodpigeons don't reduce other wildlife. They don't predate on any bird,
insect, amphibion or mammal. In my experience they don't cause any mess
either.


But they do destroy my vegetables!


I don't dispute that but cabbages don't usually come under the heading of
wildlife, even the most violent kind.


But I do find some excrecia(SP?) in places, and it is quite possible it
comes from the pigeons.

Alan





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Old 06-08-2006, 12:42 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Russel Sprout" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/06 10:58, in article ,
"DB01" wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"DB01" wrote in message
...


How do you discourage the magpies? We do get a couple trying to enter
the
ivy covered poplar that all the small birds live

They're a pest and a pain, handsome though they are. The old country
people
used to inject an egg with poison and put it into nests the magpies were
plundering - or shoot them, I'm afraid.
--
Sacha


A much maligned species.


Not when they destroy other small birds.

Alan


http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/unwant...gpies/diet.asp





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Old 06-08-2006, 01:18 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 5/8/06 23:42, in article , "Alan
Holmes" wrote:


"Russel Sprout" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/06 10:58, in article ,
"DB01" wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"DB01" wrote in message
...


How do you discourage the magpies? We do get a couple trying to enter
the
ivy covered poplar that all the small birds live

They're a pest and a pain, handsome though they are. The old country
people
used to inject an egg with poison and put it into nests the magpies were
plundering - or shoot them, I'm afraid.
--
Sacha


A much maligned species.


Not when they destroy other small birds.

Alan

Indeed. I've seen them do it and it's not pretty.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

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Old 06-08-2006, 08:15 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
BAC BAC is offline
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"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 5/8/06 23:42, in article , "Alan
Holmes" wrote:


"Russel Sprout" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/06 10:58, in article

,
"DB01" wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"DB01" wrote in message
...


How do you discourage the magpies? We do get a couple trying to enter
the
ivy covered poplar that all the small birds live

They're a pest and a pain, handsome though they are. The old country
people
used to inject an egg with poison and put it into nests the magpies

were
plundering - or shoot them, I'm afraid.
--
Sacha

A much maligned species.


Not when they destroy other small birds.

Alan

Indeed. I've seen them do it and it's not pretty.


It might not be pretty, but predation is just a part of nature.


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Old 06-08-2006, 11:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 5/8/06 23:42, in article , "Alan
Holmes" wrote:


"Russel Sprout" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/06 10:58, in article

,
"DB01" wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"DB01" wrote in message
...


How do you discourage the magpies? We do get a couple trying to
enter
the
ivy covered poplar that all the small birds live

They're a pest and a pain, handsome though they are. The old country
people
used to inject an egg with poison and put it into nests the magpies

were
plundering - or shoot them, I'm afraid.
--
Sacha

A much maligned species.

Not when they destroy other small birds.

Alan

Indeed. I've seen them do it and it's not pretty.


It might not be pretty, but predation is just a part of nature.


But when they completely destroy all the small birds, which then take many
years to recover, they need to be culled,

In fact, when I bought my first trap for the tree rats, the supplier offered
me a trap for magpies, and gave me detailed instructions as to how to catch
the damned things, he said once you had caught and killed the tree rats, you
were to split them open and use them as bait for the magpies.

Alan





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Old 07-08-2006, 11:12 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 5/8/06 23:42, in article ,

"Alan
Holmes" wrote:


"Russel Sprout" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/06 10:58, in article

,
"DB01" wrote:


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"DB01" wrote in message
...


How do you discourage the magpies? We do get a couple trying to
enter
the
ivy covered poplar that all the small birds live

They're a pest and a pain, handsome though they are. The old

country
people
used to inject an egg with poison and put it into nests the magpies

were
plundering - or shoot them, I'm afraid.
--
Sacha

A much maligned species.

Not when they destroy other small birds.

Alan

Indeed. I've seen them do it and it's not pretty.


It might not be pretty, but predation is just a part of nature.


But when they completely destroy all the small birds, which then take many
years to recover, they need to be culled,


They don't completely destroy all the small birds, though. If you have an
open mind on the subject, please read the RSPB's take on the effect of
magpies on songbird populations,

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/m..._songbirds.asp

From which I quote :-

"To find out why songbirds are in trouble, the RSPB has undertaken intensive
research on species such as the skylark and song thrush. To discover whether
magpies (or sparrowhawks) could be to blame for the decline, the RSPB
commissioned the British Trust for Ornithology (BTO) to analyse its 35 years
of bird monitoring records.

The study found that songbird numbers were no different in places where
there were many magpies or sparrowhawks from where there are few. It found
no evidence that increased numbers of magpies have caused declines in
songbirds and confirms that populations of prey species are not determined
by the numbers of their predators. "


In fact, when I bought my first trap for the tree rats, the supplier

offered
me a trap for magpies, and gave me detailed instructions as to how to

catch
the damned things, he said once you had caught and killed the tree rats,

you
were to split them open and use them as bait for the magpies.


A good salesman always knows how to empathise with a customer ....


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Old 07-08-2006, 12:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article ,
"BAC" writes:
|
| [ Quoting the RSPB ]
|
| The study found that songbird numbers were no different in places where
| there were many magpies or sparrowhawks from where there are few. It found
| no evidence that increased numbers of magpies have caused declines in
| songbirds and confirms that populations of prey species are not determined
| by the numbers of their predators.

The last clause is plain and simple drivel. There are many circumstances
under which the populations of prey species ARE determined by the numbers
of their predators. If we assume the previous statements, what it really
shows is that, in THIS case, IF there is a SINGLE cause, this is not it.
In turn, that makes it unlikely that this is a major factor.

Whether or not this a factor at all cannot be determined from such a
simplistic analysis. Indeed, it is equally possible that magpie and
raptor predation actually increases songbird numbers as reduces them;
there are several known mechanisms for that effect!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 07-08-2006, 12:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"BAC" writes:
|
| [ Quoting the RSPB ]
|
| The study found that songbird numbers were no different in places where
| there were many magpies or sparrowhawks from where there are few. It

found
| no evidence that increased numbers of magpies have caused declines in
| songbirds and confirms that populations of prey species are not

determined
| by the numbers of their predators.

The last clause is plain and simple drivel. There are many circumstances
under which the populations of prey species ARE determined by the numbers
of their predators. If we assume the previous statements, what it really
shows is that, in THIS case, IF there is a SINGLE cause, this is not it.
In turn, that makes it unlikely that this is a major factor.

Whether or not this a factor at all cannot be determined from such a
simplistic analysis. Indeed, it is equally possible that magpie and
raptor predation actually increases songbird numbers as reduces them;
there are several known mechanisms for that effect!


That's as may be, but the exercise reported on certainly doesn't support the
blanket assertion that magpies completely destroy populations of smaller
songbirds (and therefore 'need' to be culled) which Trapper Alan referred to
in justification of his opinion of the species.


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