I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.

Still the Normans round here would say that you're the foreigner as you
live the other side of Condé-sur-Noireau. Have you noticed how parochial
they are? My next door neighbour was outraged once because some people
from St. Omer came and picked over the déchets in our commune. "Who do
they think they are?" he demanded.

I've noticed there something going on between Parisians / none-Parisians.
The lady we bought our house off indicated with a snort and air of contempt
that the house just up from us is the weekend holiday home of a Parisian
family. I get the impression that Parisians are considered more of outsiders
than the Brits!


But he was a great gardener. He looked after our vegetable garden while we
were away. When we were there we had the vegetables, when we were back in
England he had them. He kept rabbits in our hutches and sheep in our
meadow and he shared the meat with us. Unfortunately he died last October.
To be more precise, he committed suicide because he was 81 years old and
was losing his strength rapidly to the point where he couldn't do our
gardens any more. He couldn't face life as a permanent invalid unable to
do any gardening and so he topped himself. He went up to his cider shed
and hanged himself.

Sad way to go. It must be horrible to lose ones independence and spiral into
decline, especially for someone so active.
--
David
.... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk
.... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/

"David (in Normandy)" wrote in message
...
I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.
Sodium metabisulph ITE is the material used for sterilising the wine
equipment etc. and does end up in the wine.
Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of some
solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.

Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of
some solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.


Only if they run out of anti-freeze :-)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:

I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.

Sorry, no! It is sodium metabisulphite. I have some here sold by Boots
for wine-making purposes and metabisulphite is what is on the label.
Crazy Horse is right about its effects but that is only when it is
concentrated. Obviously people would have to treat it with care.

As mentioned earlier, wine-makers burn sulphur in casks to sterilise
them. If you breathed in the fumes then you would suffer the same
symptoms that Crazy Horse describes.

I was always taught the use sodium metabisulphite with care by my father
as it is used in a fixing bath for black and white photography.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:

Still the Normans round here would say that you're the foreigner as you
live the other side of Condé-sur-Noireau. Have you noticed how parochial
they are? My next door neighbour was outraged once because some people
from St. Omer came and picked over the déchets in our commune. "Who do
they think they are?" he demanded.

I've noticed there something going on between Parisians / none-Parisians.
The lady we bought our house off indicated with a snort and air of contempt
that the house just up from us is the weekend holiday home of a Parisian
family. I get the impression that Parisians are considered more of outsiders
than the Brits!

Absolutely! The problem is that Normandy is further away from Paris than
the Parisians realise and they soon get fed up with the slow trek along
the A13 at weekends.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.
Sodium metabisulph ITE is the material used for sterilising the wine
equipment etc. and does end up in the wine.
Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of some
solid toilet cleaners.

I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.

They don't.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:

Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of
some solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.


Only if they run out of anti-freeze :-)

Antifreeze was used in a highly publicised case more than twenty years
ago by a combine just outside Rust on the Neusiedler See in Austria in
order to sweeten the wine. The local small wine growers were outraged by
this and put up posters saying that their wine was good and did NOT
contain antifreeze. I still have one of these posters somewhere.

The net result of this was that Austrian wine was not imported to the UK
(and several other countries) for years afterwards which was a great
pity as they have some great wines which are totally different to any
others. Even a grape like Müller-Thurgau produces a very sweet wine in
Austria and quite different to that produced by the same grape in, for
instance, the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer area of Germany. Also they have their own
grape varieties not found elsewhere such as Grüner Veldliner and
Welschriesling (which, in spite of the name, is not a Riesling at all).

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

David Rance wrote:
[...]
Antifreeze was used in a highly publicised case more than twenty years
ago by a combine just outside Rust on the Neusiedler See in Austria in
order to sweeten the wine. The local small wine growers were outraged by
this and put up posters saying that their wine was good and did NOT
contain antifreeze. I still have one of these posters somewhere.
[...]

Ridiculous fuss over a perfectly reasonable little mistake! Why, only
last winter I put glycerol in the car radiator. Worked as sweet as a
nut.

--
Mike.

The message
from David Rance contains these words:

On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote:

I'd never boil, though: for my taste, it spoils the flavour. I've never
bothered with measuring OG, either: I just work on the principle that
every quarter-pound of sugar in a gallon, if fermented right out,
raises the alcohol by 1%. So for most fruits, three pounds or so, added
in two or three stages, plus some grape juice or concentrate, is about
right.


And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making,
especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear.

David (in Normandy!)

I just wanted to come back to this point about boiling. Last summer I
made plum wine and it is still very murky. I've been looking again at
recipes and they all seem to say add boiling water to the plums. This
isn't quite the same as boiling them but I think it's what I did last
year.
I'm about to try geengage wine and I'm wondering whether to just chop
them up and mush them (they're very ripe and juicy) with some
pulverising instrument or my hands. Will this do? Am I likely to lose
some of the flavour etc if I don't add boiling water?

Janet G

Janet Galpin wrote:
The message
from David Rance contains these words:
[...]
And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making,
especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear.

I just wanted to come back to this point about boiling. Last summer I
made plum wine and it is still very murky. I've been looking again at
recipes and they all seem to say add boiling water to the plums. This
isn't quite the same as boiling them but I think it's what I did last
year.
I'm about to try geengage wine and I'm wondering whether to just chop
them up and mush them (they're very ripe and juicy) with some
pulverising instrument or my hands. Will this do? Am I likely to lose
some of the flavour etc if I don't add boiling water?

I think plum wines, including greengage, are prone to hazes. These can
be caused by gums rather than pectin: (These aren't the only possible
causes of cloudiness.) I don't know what to do about gum, but it won't
hurt you. I'd say use water just off the boil, and add a pectolytic
(pectin-destroying) enzyme if you can get it. You stir in the pectinase
before the yeast, but at the same temperature -- like all enzymes, it's
destroyed by heat.

A side-effect of pectinase is actually to improve juice-extraction, so
flavour will be better. It's a good idea to use it as a matter of
routine for any wine. You can also use it to clear finished wine if the
haze is caused by pectin: instructions on the packet or bottle.
Naturally soft water is better than hard, if you want to be fussy.

--
Mike.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Janet Galpin wrote:

I just wanted to come back to this point about boiling. Last summer I
made plum wine and it is still very murky. I've been looking again at
recipes and they all seem to say add boiling water to the plums. This
isn't quite the same as boiling them but I think it's what I did last
year.
I'm about to try geengage wine and I'm wondering whether to just chop
them up and mush them (they're very ripe and juicy) with some
pulverising instrument or my hands. Will this do? Am I likely to lose
some of the flavour etc if I don't add boiling water?

I see no point in using boiling water. What is the purpose of it?

I have made plum or greengage wine from time to time because we have a
great glut of them here most years and it makes a change from blackberry
wine. Here is my method:

Stone and mash the fruit, adding one Campden tablet for each 4 lbs. of
fruit (4 lbs. for one gallon of wine). The Campden tablet will not only
kill off the wild yeasts but also stop the fruit from taking up oxygen
and darkening. Add the yeast starter. I don't add water or sugar at this
stage. Let the yeast ferment on the natural sugars in the fruit which at
this stage are quite high. I noted with greengage that the sugar content
in the fruit itself was higher than I normally get in grapes!

After a couple of days fermenting in a bowl, covered with a cloth to
keep crawly things out, the sugar content will have gone down but also
the yeast will be breaking down the cells in the fruit which obviates
the need for using a pectolase. Strain the pulp and put the fermenting
juice into a gallon jar (I'm very pedantic so I don't call them
demijohns which are five gallon jars usually in a wicker basket).
Dissolve your two pounds (or whatever) of sugar in water - I boil it to
do it quicker - and let it cool to room temperature. You mustn't put hot
syrup into the must or you'll kill the yeast! Of course, if you've
dissolved the sugar in a minimum of water you can add cold water to
hasten this stage. Finally add the cold syrup to the must and then make
up to the gallon with cold water. It may take a day or two to get the
fermentation started again so don't worry unduly.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote:

I think plum wines, including greengage, are prone to hazes. These can
be caused by gums rather than pectin: (These aren't the only possible
causes of cloudiness.) I don't know what to do about gum, but it won't
hurt you. I'd say use water just off the boil, and add a pectolytic
(pectin-destroying) enzyme if you can get it. You stir in the pectinase
before the yeast, but at the same temperature -- like all enzymes, it's
destroyed by heat.

My plum wines clear just fine using the method I've just outlined in
answer to Janet.

A side-effect of pectinase is actually to improve juice-extraction, so
flavour will be better. It's a good idea to use it as a matter of
routine for any wine.

Again, as I mentioned to Janet, if you ferment the yeast on the pulp
this will do the same thing so you don't need pectolase. Pectolase
breaks down the cells in the fruit. Yeast will do the same as it
ferments the sugar in the fruit.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
A side-effect of pectinase is actually to improve juice-extraction, so
flavour will be better. It's a good idea to use it as a matter of
routine for any wine.

Again, as I mentioned to Janet, if you ferment the yeast on the pulp
this will do the same thing so you don't need pectolase. Pectolase
breaks down the cells in the fruit. Yeast will do the same as it
ferments the sugar in the fruit.

I won't say "I think you'll find...", as it's irritating!

--
Mike.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote:

Again, as I mentioned to Janet, if you ferment the yeast on the pulp
this will do the same thing so you don't need pectolase. Pectolase
breaks down the cells in the fruit. Yeast will do the same as it
ferments the sugar in the fruit.

I won't say "I think you'll find...", as it's irritating!


What *is* irritating is someone who doesn't finish his sentences! ;-)

I take it you don't agree with me. That's all right. We all have our own
experience of what works best for us. I've been making grape wine for
thirty years and fruit wines for thirty-four. What I wrote is what works
best for me having initially followed the advice of such writers as Mary
Tritton, Peter Duncan and Brian Acton.

And that's what this newsgroup is all about.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France