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Old 22-10-2006, 03:52 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Stan The Man" wrote in message

Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water

compnaies
with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the
water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone

&
Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a
vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year

that
all its customers would be compulsorily metered.


I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment
for water) a standard thing in all city locations


No. Mad, isn't it!

or are they just
being introduced across the UK?


They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a
lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them
installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had to
have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for many
people :-(

Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them.

Mary


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Old 22-10-2006, 03:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote

snip

We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws
whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on
certain days of the week.


Europe has been hit too. France imposed hosepipe bans last year as well,
but I think it was allowed to water ones veggies. Food still comes first
in France :~))
Jenny


We didn't have a hosepipe ban but I didn't use any tap water for the garden
and everything was very well watered. We have butts. Food is important to
the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who lives in France most
French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many
fast food shops as there are here.

Mary




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Old 22-10-2006, 03:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...


They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a
lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them
installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had to
have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for many
people :-(

Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them.

Mary


Young couple who are out all day are finding them far cheaper than on the
old Rates system One of my daughters, because of the value of her house,
was paying a fortune for having an empty house all day and thus not using
the water. Water meter installed and hey presto much reduced bills :-))

mike


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Old 22-10-2006, 04:08 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Stan The Man" wrote in message

Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water

compnaies
with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the
water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone

&
Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a
vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year

that
all its customers would be compulsorily metered.


I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment
for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just
being introduced across the UK?

Domestic water used always to be paid for as a fixed annual fee related to
the value of your property. This is being replaced by water meters where
you pay for the amount of water you actually use. Obviously the latter is a
firer system and ought to be widely used, but some of the water companies
comprehensively buggered the process by using the installation of meters to
hike the prices. Thus my Father who has an expensive house because of the
sea view but with a small garden which he does not water and a preference
for showers over baths found he was paying significantly more for water with
a meter than he was for a water rate even though his rates were high and his
water usage is low. I presume Essex water has no feet left to shoot itself
in :-(

Gill M


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Old 22-10-2006, 04:31 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote
The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first
introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped
by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year
since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it
was before metering was imposed.

That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on
water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary
as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to
using less water.


Maybe it's too cheap?
.........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006)

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
says:

Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540
litres of water: 70p


Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres.
At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p

Steve




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Old 22-10-2006, 04:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
K K is offline
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Default UK drought - end in sight

Farm1 writes
"Stan The Man" wrote in message

Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water

compnaies
with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the
water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone

&
Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a
vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year

that
all its customers would be compulsorily metered.


I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment
for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just
being introduced across the UK?

Payment for water is standard but not water meters


--
Kay
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Old 22-10-2006, 04:41 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote

snip

We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws
whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on
certain days of the week.


Europe has been hit too. France imposed hosepipe bans last year as well,
but I think it was allowed to water ones veggies. Food still comes first
in France :~))
Jenny


We didn't have a hosepipe ban but I didn't use any tap water for the
garden and everything was very well watered. We have butts. Food is
important to the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who lives in
France most French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they
have as many fast food shops as there are here.
Mary


I suppose it depends whereabouts you are in France. Rural areas seem not to
have too many Mac.D's :~))
Jenny


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Old 22-10-2006, 04:41 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


In article ,
"shazzbat" writes:
| "JennyC" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Maybe it's too cheap?
| .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006)
|
| http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
| says:
|
| Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540
| litres of water: 70p
|
| Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres.
| At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p

Really? Try again.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 22-10-2006, 04:41 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:54:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

snip
French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many
fast food shops as there are here.


The French have a lot more good restaurants with reasonable prices.
Martin


Yeah :~))
I am dieting in anticipation :~)
Jenny


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Old 22-10-2006, 04:42 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"shazzbat" writes:
"JennyC" wrote in message
...

Maybe it's too cheap?
.........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June
2006)

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
says:

Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses
approximately 540 litres of water: 70p

Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres.
At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p


Really? Try again.

This is great. It's getting cheaper all the time!




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Old 22-10-2006, 04:50 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote
The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first
introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped
by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year
since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it
was before metering was imposed.

That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on
water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary
as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to
using less water.


Maybe it's too cheap?
.........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006)

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
says:

Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately
540 litres of water: 70p


Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres.
At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p
Steve


I know. info from two different sites........just making sure you were not
napping after Sunday lunch :~)
Jenny


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Old 22-10-2006, 05:01 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight

In article
, Farm1
please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message

Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water

compnaies
with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the
water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone

&
Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a
vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year

that
all its customers would be compulsorily metered.


I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment
for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just
being introduced across the UK?


Only a couple of small areas in the UK currently are compulsorily
metered - the Isle of Wight and (in process) Folkestone & Dover water
supply area. Domestic properties, that is - all industrial/commercial
properties are metered.

In other areas, anyone can opt to have a meter installed - or the local
water authority can unilaterally install one when a property changes
ownership. All new build homes are metered.

OFWAT says that 28% of UK homes were metered in 2005/6 and forecast
that this would rise to 30% in 2007. The Govt wants everyone to be
metered but is shying away from legislation to enforce it.
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Old 22-10-2006, 05:08 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight

In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...

Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it
rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it
rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this
happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as
possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage
to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the
lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the
same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display
ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted).


Why do you think all this?


I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly
with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the
south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham -
nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe
bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that
the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water
company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not
acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions.

If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of
evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the
rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe
bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends.
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Old 22-10-2006, 05:10 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...

Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it
rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it
rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this
happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as
possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage
to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the
lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the
same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display
ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted).


Why do you think all this?


I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly
with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the
south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham -
nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe
bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that
the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water
company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not
acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions.

If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of
evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the
rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe
bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends.


No, I can't be bothered.

But I can't understand why if there's such a plot that it doesn't seem that
anyone has been fined for using hosepipes. I have friends in the south east
and they've all used hosepipes for watering gardens, filling a swimming pool
and filling children's paddling pools.

The plot isn't working.



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Old 22-10-2006, 05:12 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default UK drought - end in sight


"mike" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...


They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a
lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them
installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had
to have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for
many people :-(

Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them.

Mary


Young couple who are out all day are finding them far cheaper than on the
old Rates system One of my daughters, because of the value of her house,
was paying a fortune for having an empty house all day and thus not using
the water. Water meter installed and hey presto much reduced bills :-))


We're in all day and as a beekeeper I used a huge amount of water to wash
honey extracting, filtering, storage equipment and jars as well as cleaning
the rooms. Our water bills with a meter were lower than when we had water
rates.

Now that I don't have to do that they're minuscule.

Mary

mike




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