Gill Matthews wrote:
... Thus my Father who has an expensive house because of the
sea view but with a small garden which he does not water and a preference
for showers over baths found he was paying significantly more for water with
a meter than he was for a water rate even though his rates were high and his
water usage is low.

Has he checked his meter readings versus estimated usage or compared
with someone similar? Thames Water installed my meter with on oversized
coupling on my side that leaked furiously (though only at night). After
spending ages proving to myself it wasn't in my 120-yo pipes, I got
them to dig up the meter and behold...

Chris

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...

The Govt wants everyone to be
metered but is shying away from legislation to enforce it.

If that's true I think it's the first policy I've agreed with. But they
should get on and do it instead of shilly-shallying.

Mary

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

Food is important to the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who
lives in France most French people aren't so interested in good food
anyway, they have as many fast food shops as there are here.
Mary

I suppose it depends whereabouts you are in France. Rural areas seem not
to have too many Mac.D's :~))

They're in a rural area :-)

Mary
Jenny

After serious thinking wrote :
Gill Matthews wrote:
... Thus my Father who has an expensive house because of the
sea view but with a small garden which he does not water and a preference
for showers over baths found he was paying significantly more for water with
a meter than he was for a water rate even though his rates were high and his
water usage is low.

Has he checked his meter readings versus estimated usage or compared
with someone similar? Thames Water installed my meter with on oversized
coupling on my side that leaked furiously (though only at night). After
spending ages proving to myself it wasn't in my 120-yo pipes, I got
them to dig up the meter and behold...

Chris

Thanks for the suggestion I will try and check up on this The house is
not all that old (less than 20 years) so leaky pipes are unlikely but I
had not thought of a leaky meter

--
I am not really dangerous

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I
have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not
apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case ,
but
would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read
the
numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea



I brought that question up on both hoses on well water and hoses on water
butts "What part of Hose Pipe ban do you not understand" was the retort by
some clever Dick :-((

Still don't know which and when hose pipes can be used, but with 8 water
butts we are OK :-))

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote
The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first
introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped
by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year
since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it
was before metering was imposed.

That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on
water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary
as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to
using less water.

Maybe it's too cheap?
.........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006)


http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
says:

Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540
litres of water: 70p



Jenny

I have had a meter for years but do not need to use it thank goodness, your
1.2p is a typo, the rate in SW area is £1.247 per M3 and that is just the
water charge it costs much more if you are on mains drainage for them to
take it away again( I am not, so I am not sure what it is currently, but it
was twice the cost of the water), so not only are you going to pay a lot
more than 70p for an hours watering you will be paying for them to treat
water that they do not get back.
As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I
have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not
apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but
would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the
numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...

Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it
rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it
rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this
happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as
possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage
to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the
lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the
same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display
ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted).

Why do you think all this?

I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly
with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the
south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham -
nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe
bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that
the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water
company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not
acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions.

If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of
evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the
rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe
bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends.

No, I can't be bothered.

But I can't understand why if there's such a plot that it doesn't seem that
anyone has been fined for using hosepipes. I have friends in the south east
and they've all used hosepipes for watering gardens, filling a swimming pool
and filling children's paddling pools.

The plot isn't working.

Firstly, filling swimming pools and paddling pools with a hosepipe is
perfectly legal during a hosepipe ban -- as our national newspapers
have gleefully pointed out in the spring when the hosepipe restrictions
were extended. The law specifies that the only hosepipe activities
which can be restricted during a ban are the direct watering of gardens
or washing of vehicles from the mains supply. (Hence the need to update
the legislation and get rid of the anomalies.)

Secondly, the water compnaies don't want to fine anyone - their PR this
year has been bad enough without taking money from little old ladies.

Thirdly, they can't fine anyone anyway unless they can prove that a
hosepipe was connected to the mains supply at the time of the alleged
infringement. A defence lawyer would simply say that the hosepipe was
connected to a water butt, not the mains supply and its use was
therefore legal. Hence, no cases brought because they are unwinnable.

Fourthly, your friends may not be saving water but others are -
allegedly there has been a 10% reduction in water consumption with all
the ballyhoo ...and that was enough for Thames Water to withdraw their
August application for a drought order.

In article , Charlie Pridham
wrote:

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote
The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first
introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped
by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year
since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it
was before metering was imposed.

That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on
water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary
as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to
using less water.

Maybe it's too cheap?
.........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006)


http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
says:

Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540
litres of water: 70p



Jenny

I have had a meter for years but do not need to use it thank goodness, your
1.2p is a typo, the rate in SW area is £1.247 per M3 and that is just the
water charge it costs much more if you are on mains drainage for them to
take it away again( I am not, so I am not sure what it is currently, but it
was twice the cost of the water), so not only are you going to pay a lot
more than 70p for an hours watering you will be paying for them to treat
water that they do not get back.
As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I
have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not
apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but
would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the
numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~)

The 8 water companies in the SE who have imposed hosepipe bans have not
made any exceptions for metered properties - primarily because it would
make policing the ban virtually impossible, and snooping pointless.

In article , mike wrote:

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I
have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not
apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case ,
but
would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read
the
numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea



I brought that question up on both hoses on well water and hoses on water
butts "What part of Hose Pipe ban do you not understand" was the retort by
some clever Dick :-((

Still don't know which and when hose pipes can be used, but with 8 water
butts we are OK :-))

Typical disinformation from the water companies. Hosepipes are not
banned under a hosepipe ban - only two hosepipe uses can be banned. Any
application which doesn't take water directly from the mains supply is
permitted. And so are many applications which do take mains water, eg
washing down a path or building, filling a trough or any other
container, mixing cement, washing the dog, children's water fights,
using a pressure washer (except on vehicles), etc, etc.

To be clear, the only restricted activities are the direct delivery of
mains water to the garden via a hosepipe or irrigation system; and the
cleaning of private vehicles.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"shazzbat" writes:
| "JennyC" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Maybe it's too cheap?
| .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June
2006)
|
|
http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000
| says:
|
| Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses
approximately 540
| litres of water: 70p
|
| Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres.
| At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p

Really? Try again.

Lol, I made a typo with the decimal point. But my point stands. No moving
the . will make the original example correct.

Steve

In article ,
"shazzbat" writes:
|
| Lol, I made a typo with the decimal point. But my point stands. No moving
| the . will make the original example correct.

True.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...

Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it
rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it
rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this
happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as
possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water
shortage
to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the
lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do
the
same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display
ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted).

Why do you think all this?

I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly
with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the
south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham -
nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe
bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that
the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water
company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not
acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions.

If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of
evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the
rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe
bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends.

No, I can't be bothered.

But I can't understand why if there's such a plot that it doesn't seem
that
anyone has been fined for using hosepipes. I have friends in the south
east
and they've all used hosepipes for watering gardens, filling a swimming
pool
and filling children's paddling pools.

The plot isn't working.

Firstly, filling swimming pools and paddling pools with a hosepipe is
perfectly legal during a hosepipe ban -- as our national newspapers
have gleefully pointed out

I don't read newspapers and wouldn't rely on them for the Law..

Secondly, the water compnaies don't want to fine anyone - their PR this
year has been bad enough without taking money from little old ladies.

What about big old ladies - like me?

Thirdly, they can't fine anyone anyway unless they can prove that a
hosepipe was connected to the mains supply at the time of the alleged
infringement. A defence lawyer would simply say that the hosepipe was
connected to a water butt, not the mains supply and its use was
therefore legal. Hence, no cases brought because they are unwinnable.

What about those who are using a hosepipe but don't have a butt?

Fourthly, your friends may not be saving water but others are -
allegedly there has been a 10% reduction in water consumption with all
the ballyhoo ...and that was enough for Thames Water to withdraw their
August application for a drought order.

There is a LOT of misinformation about water.

I remember the hoo-ha about Yorkshire Water in the bad drought we had. There
were stories about 'tankers thundering through villages' - which was utter
nonsense.

That example is (only) one reason why we don't buy newspapers and don't have
a television.

Mary

"Anne Jackson" wrote in message
...

I had formulated a question on exactly this subject[*], when I went
to a recording of 'Question Time' that was held in Perth a few
weeks ago. Unfortunately I wasn't one of the lucky few whose
questions were chosed for the panel to answer.

[*] Did you know that your questions to 'Question Time' should be
thirty words or less? Not easy, if it's a complicated question!

--


Wording a question in any case is difficult to bring out the correct answer.
I have written City & Guild of London Institute Questions and they are not
easy :-((

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

Many thanks to all who explained the situation regarding metering of
water in the UK. Rates vs meter usage is obvious now I know.

For those who are interested in water usage bans in Aus, then a bit of
info on how it works here in 2 different areas I know well. Both
areas have level of water restrictions level 1 (lowest ban) to Level 5
highest ban). One area seems to have now gone to a permanent Level 2
and it means:
No sprinkler or other irrigation systems during the week. Only hand
watering and drippers between 7-10am and 7-10pm as per the odds and
evens. ACTEW will also grant a general exemption for limited use of
sprinklers on weekends: even numbered houses on Saturdays and odd
numbered houses on Sundays, and only between 7-10pm, no other times.

The other area has had Level 5 restrictions for at least 2 years and
that means:
Each household is asked to use only 150 litres per person per day (in
the house). No outside use of water whatsoever for any purpose and
fines apply for misuse.

"Anne Jackson" wrote in message
...
The message from Stan The Man contains these words:

b) the water shortage is much more to do with John Prescott's new house
building agenda (coupled with insufficient reservoirs) - and supply
pipe leaks - than it has to do with gardening (or rainfall - which
statistics have been much distorted by the Environment Agency to suit
the Govt's agenda)

So gardeners and their hosepipes are the sacrificial lambs to a much
bigger God: the need to build tens of thousands of new homes in the
south east, many of them for immigrants, without having the water
supply infrastructure in place to support them.

I had formulated a question on exactly this subject[*], when I went
to a recording of 'Question Time' that was held in Perth a few
weeks ago. Unfortunately I wasn't one of the lucky few whose
questions were chosed for the panel to answer.

[*] Did you know that your questions to 'Question Time' should be
thirty words or less? Not easy, if it's a complicated question!
AnneJ

The little card they give you to write question on is indeed small. You'd
have to write really small to get much more than 30 words on it!
Jenny