Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 01:22 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,092
Default Kill filing

I had no idea Judith was going to post tonight. But I am very glad she has
because she has exposed the malice directed at the very heart of her life
and career.
And I would like just to say this - while I have every sympathy with those
who kill file persistent cross posting and off topic trolls, I would also
like to point out that many of those who emailed me and Judith about what
was done to her said they didn't know about it because they had kill filed
Puke. I understand their reasons for doing so and I sympathise with their
impatience with her methods but she, Puke, DID come here purporting to give
gardening advice. As a result of that, she should have been read and
watched when it became apparent that much of what she wrote was not good
advice at all. IMO, the group and all those asking advice of it, deserve
the vigilance of everyone posting here. A very few of us adhered to that
and as a result, we received a horrible amount of abuse and Judith was
subjected to a torrent of it.
If you - all of us - want this to be a real group we ALL have to look after
it. We ALL have to make sure it is not abused by *anyone*. I am not
interested in garden machinery or growing leeks but I did, at least, skim
every thread to see what was going on. If people don't do that, they miss
what was being done to Judith and could be done to others. Sorry but that
won't do. A couple of years ago, a very valuable poster to this group
remarked that people were coming here, taking what they wanted and otherwise
contributing nothing. She predicted then that this would damage urg and I
admit freely that I thought she was exaggerating. I was wrong and she was
right and she is another who has gone, as have several other real experts.
That "Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm alright" outlook was why Judith was
treated so appallingly. Afterwards, several people expressed their private
regrets to me in emails but too late. URG has been horribly tainted by this
closing of the eyes to what does not affect the individual and it seems to
me that it should never be allowed to happen again.
IMO, the lesson to be learned from this is that if you kill file over
zealously, you lose the thread - literally - and then, you lose the group.
If you're a member of a group, then I think it is up to you to make sure the
group remains healthy.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

  #2   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 01:29 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 23
Default Kill filing

I disagree. if those involved all kill file the "perpetrator" the nasty
threads die off. if those not involved don't kill file the nasty threads
die off naturally and so the group remains. I am afraid to say that it does
seem as though some people have too much time on their hands. and rather
than letting go of a situation it snow balls.

everyone is different and is able to make the choice themselves.

personally I have nowt against La Puce. if we have words in the future then
that is up to me to take whatever action I feel appropriate. until then all
the retaliatory e-mails backwards and forwards from those concerned and
those butting in are meaningless. I am big enough and old enough to decide
what I post.

I also take what I can from this NG. why? because I have nothing to
contribute to gardening. why? because I am trying to learn and I am not in
a position to provide useful advice.


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
I had no idea Judith was going to post tonight. But I am very glad she

has
because she has exposed the malice directed at the very heart of her life
and career.
And I would like just to say this - while I have every sympathy with those
who kill file persistent cross posting and off topic trolls, I would also
like to point out that many of those who emailed me and Judith about what
was done to her said they didn't know about it because they had kill filed
Puke. I understand their reasons for doing so and I sympathise with their
impatience with her methods but she, Puke, DID come here purporting to

give
gardening advice. As a result of that, she should have been read and
watched when it became apparent that much of what she wrote was not good
advice at all. IMO, the group and all those asking advice of it, deserve
the vigilance of everyone posting here. A very few of us adhered to that
and as a result, we received a horrible amount of abuse and Judith was
subjected to a torrent of it.
If you - all of us - want this to be a real group we ALL have to look

after
it. We ALL have to make sure it is not abused by *anyone*. I am not
interested in garden machinery or growing leeks but I did, at least, skim
every thread to see what was going on. If people don't do that, they miss
what was being done to Judith and could be done to others. Sorry but that
won't do. A couple of years ago, a very valuable poster to this group
remarked that people were coming here, taking what they wanted and

otherwise
contributing nothing. She predicted then that this would damage urg and I
admit freely that I thought she was exaggerating. I was wrong and she was
right and she is another who has gone, as have several other real experts.
That "Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm alright" outlook was why Judith was
treated so appallingly. Afterwards, several people expressed their

private
regrets to me in emails but too late. URG has been horribly tainted by

this
closing of the eyes to what does not affect the individual and it seems to
me that it should never be allowed to happen again.
IMO, the lesson to be learned from this is that if you kill file over
zealously, you lose the thread - literally - and then, you lose the group.
If you're a member of a group, then I think it is up to you to make sure

the
group remains healthy.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/



  #3   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 01:31 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,423
Default Kill filing


Sacha wrote:
I had no idea Judith was going to post tonight. But I am very glad she has
because she has exposed the malice directed at the very heart of her life
and career.


She wrote to my company first. What about my colleagues? What do you
think they thought? Don't you think I was ambarassed? But you led
Judith to this. You encouraged her. And now you are trying to make me
sound evil again.

I will not let you.

Puke, DID come here purporting to give
gardening advice.


It's Puce, with a 'c'. I'm not purporting anything. You are jealous and
bitter. Why don't you just kill file me?

As a result of that, she should have been read and
watched when it became apparent that much of what she wrote was not good
advice at all.


Post your proof.

I am not
interested in garden machinery or growing leeks


I am and many others do.

If you're a member of a group, then I think it is up to you to make sure the
group remains healthy.


Good idea. Just contribute your gardening advices which are respected
and enjoyed by many and stop leading lonely women to battles they can't
fight.

  #4   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 01:47 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 125
Default Kill filing


La Puce wrote:


Good idea. Just contribute your gardening advices which are respected
and enjoyed by many and stop leading lonely women to battles they can't
fight.


Are you lonely? I have a very full life, one that you can only be
jealous of; and battles,? you mean lies, I can fight these very well -
bring it on!

  #5   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 03:06 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 47
Default Kill filing


"Sacha" wrote in message
...

If you - all of us - want this to be a real group we ALL have to
look after it. We ALL have to make sure it is not abused by
*anyone*.


Unfortunately that's simply not possible. Not in the way that you
suggest at least. Anyone is free to post on unmoderated NewsGroups.
And there are countless loonies and malcontents out there in Cyberspace
who are quite capable of being as disruptive as they like, anywhere
they like, just for the sake of it. Given the chance.

These people thrive on generating a response. Which is why its
impossible to argue with them, either singly or collectively
as a group.

The more response they generate, of any kind, the happier they will be.

The first objective of all such people is to get the regulars
arguing among themselves. If only arguing about the best way
to deal with the trolls. Plus different posters taking it in
turn to "take on" the trolls.

This never works. And it is this form of response which floods the
NewsGroup with off-topic material, rather than the trolls themselves
which has totally destroyed certain NewsGroups in the past.

It's by allowing the trolls and malcontents to become established
on NewsGroups, by acknowledging their very existence, which creates
the atmosphere which causes others to leave.

Killfiling or at least not responding to such people, who have
limitless time at their disposal it would seem, coupled with
an ability to wind people up, by telling bare faced lies about
them if necessary, is the only answer IMHO.


michael adams

....

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/





  #6   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 07:33 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 735
Default Kill filing

"Sacha" wrote in message

And I would like just to say this - while I have every sympathy with

those
who kill file persistent cross posting and off topic trolls, (snip)

I understand their reasons for doing so and I sympathise with their
impatience with her methods but she, Puke, DID come here purporting

to give
gardening advice. As a result of that, she should have been read

and
watched when it became apparent that much of what she wrote was not

good
advice at all.


Puke was watched Sacha. Her lack of knowledge became evident fairly
quickly. You know she didn't like it when called to account either,
but what happened - she is STILL here and the best and brightest left.

And that was the worst thing to happen in this ng. The most knowledge
and experienced of UK gardening CHOSE to leave. Deliberately chose!

Puke is/was an irritant and very hard on the blood pressure long term
but killfiling her and remaining here would at least give those who
don't know that she often talks through her hat a chance to get some
correct advice. What use is leaving the field and letting the
inexperienced think that Puke is the peak of UK gardening knowledge?
That's just akin to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

And I'm so pleased to see who has posted in this thread. The
frustration for you lot lurking must have been appalling. I'd hoped
you lot were all lurking and hoped too that you'd eventually be
tempted to return. Won't you please all come back now? Pretty, pretty
please?



  #7   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 08:14 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,092
Default Kill filing

On 17/11/06 02:06, in article , "michael
adams" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...

If you - all of us - want this to be a real group we ALL have to
look after it. We ALL have to make sure it is not abused by
*anyone*.


Unfortunately that's simply not possible. Not in the way that you
suggest at least. Anyone is free to post on unmoderated NewsGroups.
And there are countless loonies and malcontents out there in Cyberspace
who are quite capable of being as disruptive as they like, anywhere
they like, just for the sake of it. Given the chance.

These people thrive on generating a response. Which is why its
impossible to argue with them, either singly or collectively
as a group.

The more response they generate, of any kind, the happier they will be.

The first objective of all such people is to get the regulars
arguing among themselves. If only arguing about the best way
to deal with the trolls. Plus different posters taking it in
turn to "take on" the trolls.

This never works. And it is this form of response which floods the
NewsGroup with off-topic material, rather than the trolls themselves
which has totally destroyed certain NewsGroups in the past.

It's by allowing the trolls and malcontents to become established
on NewsGroups, by acknowledging their very existence, which creates
the atmosphere which causes others to leave.

Killfiling or at least not responding to such people, who have
limitless time at their disposal it would seem, coupled with
an ability to wind people up, by telling bare faced lies about
them if necessary, is the only answer IMHO.


michael adams


I appreciate your thoughtful response but obviously, given what I posted
before, do not agree. I have seen another group totally destroyed - and I
do mean *totally* - because its regular members kill filed one person who
was not only trolling but was encouraging trolls. If you have Puke kill
filed, you will not have seen that she is now, for instance, starting to
respond to and encourage another vicious and persistent troll and others who
post here to no purpose other than to be facetious or post almost
exclusively off-topic. Sooner or later, she will have the entire group
reduced to that state and there will no longer be a group. We have been
warned of the damage she did to demon local by someone who posted there
regularly at one time and IMO, that is what she hopes to achieve here. I
have no idea why but it appears to be her idea of fun. If people use kill
files to such an extent as to be unaware of what is going on in a group and
able to express their extreme disapproval of bad behaviour immediately, then
the group disintegrates. In the last few weeks the traffic on urg has
tailed off dismally and seriously good and knowledgeable posters have
disappeared, some of them without saying a word - they're just not here any
more.
In my view, it is absolutely wrong that someone like Judith who is renowned
for her good manners and fairness, has her job threatened by the likes of
Puke who has insulted many people here and specifically targeted Judith for
foul language, too. Now, she is dragging in Judith's work and private life
*again*, using an old post sent by someone who was not posting here while
Puke has been and who would be lividly angry to know that he is being used
to harm Judith.
While I see your pov, I cannot agree with it when that sort of thing is
happening and don't think urg can be described as a group when it is allowed
to happen so persistently.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

  #8   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 08:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,092
Default Kill filing

On 17/11/06 06:33, in article
, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

"Sacha" wrote in message

And I would like just to say this - while I have every sympathy with

those
who kill file persistent cross posting and off topic trolls, (snip)

I understand their reasons for doing so and I sympathise with their
impatience with her methods but she, Puke, DID come here purporting

to give
gardening advice. As a result of that, she should have been read

and
watched when it became apparent that much of what she wrote was not

good
advice at all.


Puke was watched Sacha. Her lack of knowledge became evident fairly
quickly. You know she didn't like it when called to account either,
but what happened - she is STILL here and the best and brightest left.


If everyone who objected to her behaviour - and I do mean *everyone* - had
both sat on her firmly as soon as she started her misleading, lying,
insulting and swearing behaviour, we might not have lost those people. And
if all those who objected to her manner of posting had complained to her
ISP, she might have had a halt put in her gallop at the very least. Puke is
here because two or three people at most are responding to her. The group
is now reduced to a mere handful of posters, so she will take hold of it and
turn it to her own personal tastes and that will be because she is allowed
to do so by those who permit her to do it.

And that was the worst thing to happen in this ng. The most knowledge
and experienced of UK gardening CHOSE to leave. Deliberately chose!


I chose to leave because I was absolutely disgusted at the treatment meted
out of Judith, the filthy language and insults to someone who never,
herself, behaves that way and the lies told about her by a proven liar. And
a major contributing factor in my decision to leave was the fact that those
who know Judith, like her and have been either RL or cyber friends of hers
for years, described that piece of newsgroup terrorism as a catfight or
nothing to do with them or stupid women who should be kill filed. That was
a disgraceful way to treat Judith and it was cruel and unkind.

Puke is/was an irritant and very hard on the blood pressure long term
but killfiling her and remaining here would at least give those who
don't know that she often talks through her hat a chance to get some
correct advice. What use is leaving the field and letting the
inexperienced think that Puke is the peak of UK gardening knowledge?
That's just akin to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.


As I said when I left, urg will get the group it deserves. If the majority
sit back and allow Puke to post her garbage and loftily dissociate
themselves from it, then they are tacitly encouraging her to believe she
can do it.

And I'm so pleased to see who has posted in this thread. The
frustration for you lot lurking must have been appalling. I'd hoped
you lot were all lurking and hoped too that you'd eventually be
tempted to return. Won't you please all come back now? Pretty, pretty
please?

For myself, I've looked in from time to time but haven't been reading the
group every day. I've had a good deal of email chat with past and some
present members, which is heartening in itself. I'm saddened to see how
quiet urg has become and that the past friendliness and banter has all but
disappeared but as to returning full time, I don't want to post in a group
where people close their eyes to what Puke is doing and pretend her
treatment of Judith and others and her ruination of the group as a whole,
is nothing to do with them.
Thank you for your response and I'd be grateful if you'd email me.
Remove the 'weeds'.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

  #9   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 01:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,092
Default Kill filing

On 17/11/06 11:43, in article
gum-hctertsdd, "David D Stretch"
wrote:

On Friday 17 Nov 2006 02:06, michael adams
) wrote:

[lots of good points]

I really do agree with and endorse the points made here. It would be nice if
the alternative strategy could work, but I think it will only hasten the
slide of urg to _unusability_ if this alternative was adopted. better to
ignore and killfile, I think.


Hasn't worked too well all this kill filing, has it? This group is down to
around ten or so posters, some of whom post only one line "me too" type
msgs., some of whom are just irritatingly facetious ALL the time but rarely
discuss gardening and some of whom don't know which way is up to plant a
bulb. Many bob in from gardenbanter to ask a question and then bob out never
to be seen or contribute again. There are about four people posting who
actually know anything and most of them specialise in one way or another.
There is nobody with the depth and breadth of knowledge of Janet Barraclough
or David Poole and Puke has made sure urg has lost them and all that
killfiling has allowed her to do it, because none of you spoke up and told
her to just shut up. David is a professional plantsman and past nurseryman
and Janet might just as well be. The information and knowledge I was able
to pass on from my third generation husband who has worked in his own
nursery for over 50 years, on a vast range of plants and such things as
biological control, is lost, as are the seeds, cuttings and plants I shared
around the group. But don't worry, your kill files are in place, so you
won't even be aware of what you've lost. And Puke has the lowest possible
level of RHS cert. so *that* will see you all okay.

The strength of the group is vitiated and for those of us who knew how
fabulously valuable it was to all levels of gardener, it has been a tragedy
to watch that happen.

The *enormous* and incalculable value of this group to those wishing to
learn has been stamped out of existence in a few months by the
determination of one poster to rid this group of everyone who will not
butter her up and who knows more than she does - not difficult, admittedly.

And Judith, one of the kindest, nicest, funniest and most genuinely charming
of urg's long-standing members has had her job threatened, has been sworn at
and insulted on a regular basis (as have Janet and I) and has been almost
bullied out of existence by a consummate liar who has echoes of the stalker
about her, visiting our place just to be photographed outside it and
threatening to pay a visit to Janet in Scotland. Not what I'd chalk up as a
major success for a thriving and vibrant newsgroup, personally.

What all you kill filers are refusing to wake up to is that urg is already
almost unusable because you have lost all the wide range experts and are
allowing someone who doesn't know a zillionth of what has been lost, to pass
around largely useless advice, to set herself up as a self-appointed expert
and to harry or bore still more people off the group while she is stealthily
encouraging trolls who are probably also in your kill file. You see none of
this going on so are doing nothing to contribute to the health of the group.

But hey, it's a newsgroup so it will be what its posters make of it. As we
see.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

  #10   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 02:07 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 797
Default Kill filing


"Sacha" wrote
There are about four people posting who
actually know anything and most of them specialise in one way or another.

snipped
Sacha


Right - that's put the rest of us properly in our place hasn't it
?!?!?!?!?!?

Janet thinks I'm an uneducated nitwit..........
You think nobody else has any good gardening advice to offer............
DaveP is wisely keeping his head down.............
So who's the forth font of all URG knowledge ??
Jenny




  #11   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 02:44 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,423
Default Kill filing


Anne Jackson wrote:
The Puke


I just can't place you at all. Why are you so vile in your responses,
especially all your posts are nothing others than nasty comments to
stir further arguments? Why do you do this? What have I done to you to
deserve this?

And it's 'La puce'.

  #12   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 02:51 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,092
Default Kill filing

On 17/11/06 13:30, in article , "Anne
Jackson" wrote:

The message from Sacha contains these words:

The group is now reduced to a mere handful of posters, so she
will take hold of it and turn it to her own personal tastes and
that will be because she is allowed to do so by those who permit
her to do it.


AND those who chose to leave....the choice was theirs, and they voted
with`their feet! DON'T forget that!


I haven't disputed it. I'm concerned with what has caused it.

The Puke is only an irritant, and a minor irritant at that, if you
allow her to be. The best thing to do with her, and all the other
trolls, is simply to ignore her.


A 'minor irritant' does not try to lose someone their career, it does not
'threaten' to visit people in their homes or drive up to them to be
photographed. It does not lie about emails received from or about other
people; it does not lose a newsgroup its most valuable members.

If you find it impossible to do that, perhaps its best that you all
stay away?


I can't see that my presence or absence has any interest for you, given your
(lack of) gardening input. Others have been kind enough to say otherwise
about the absence of all those who have left. And have you seen me, Judith
or Janet respond to a gardening post in the last 12 hours, despite requests
to stay here and do so? We have posted about Puke's claim that she is not a
liar and the fact that kill filing has allowed her to do the damage she has
done.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

  #14   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 03:05 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,423
Default Kill filing


Sacha wrote:
I'm sorry


Just keep to this Sacha and carry on living. Please keep breathing.
It's a wonderful world out there. You will simply not gain anything
with doing what you are trying to do.

I have to agree with you that the loss of David is huge - but you are
entirely at fault. If you had refrained from being nasty and just
stopping at launching others into battles in vain, he wouldn't have
left. I am convinced he is as unhappy about the situation as it is
about you.

  #15   Report Post  
Old 17-11-2006, 03:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 2
Default Kill filing

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:33:13 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

And I'm so pleased to see who has posted in this thread. The
frustration for you lot lurking must have been appalling. I'd hoped
you lot were all lurking and hoped too that you'd eventually be
tempted to return. Won't you please all come back now? Pretty, pretty
please?


Creep.


DM

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Filing' winter seeds Higgs Boson Gardening 11 06-07-2012 05:33 PM
How much emyacin to kill slime algae? [email protected] Freshwater Aquaria Plants 2 20-04-2003 07:08 AM
Will Tylan (an antibiotic) kill my christmas tree? Dick N. Bush Lawns 0 06-12-2002 08:47 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017