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Old 02-12-2006, 11:51 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

"Peter Jason" wrote in message

It is about 1/2 meter tall and the top is
growing fast. I don't have a garden and it
lives in a pot on the patio. I just want to
train it into an attractive shape because it
has branches lower down that grow out
horizontally.


I think you wasted your money.

The Wollemi Pine belongs to the Araucaria family and this family all
grow into huge trees. The really spectacular thing about this family
is their shape in that they grow enormously tall with stunning trunks
and have superb pointy tops. There are many wonderful and enormous
examples in older gardens in Oz (especially old farm gardens) that
were planted in the 19th century and in many Victorian era cemeteries
(such as Rookwood in Sydney).

The official site for the Wollemi Pine says that the biggest one in
the wild is 40 metres high so I don't fancy your chances of keeping it
looking good as a pot plant given the preferred way that these trees
grow.


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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message

I find they're growing at half a metre a year in Oz


That's a different experience to my friends. They've had them nipped
badly from frost and despite what the official site says, they are
finding them rather more cold sensitive than reported. They'd be
delighted to get any growth from the things (mind you we do live in a
part of Oz that is cold in winter).

and being sold
almost as grow-anywhere-anyhow trees.


Which I think is a mistake given that they are from the Araucaria
family. This is a wonderful family of trees but owning a lot of land
(like a farm) is required to do this family justice IMHO (and even
then they must be carefully sited to be the star attraction which will
look stunning at about 100 years old).


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Old 02-12-2006, 05:08 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Peter Jason" wrote in message

It is about 1/2 meter tall and the top is
growing fast. I don't have a garden and it
lives in a pot on the patio. I just want to
train it into an attractive shape because it
has branches lower down that grow out
horizontally.


I think you wasted your money.

The Wollemi Pine belongs to the Araucaria family and this family all
grow into huge trees. The really spectacular thing about this family
is their shape in that they grow enormously tall with stunning trunks
and have superb pointy tops. There are many wonderful and enormous
examples in older gardens in Oz (especially old farm gardens) that
were planted in the 19th century and in many Victorian era cemeteries
(such as Rookwood in Sydney).

The official site for the Wollemi Pine says that the biggest one in
the wild is 40 metres high so I don't fancy your chances of keeping it
looking good as a pot plant given the preferred way that these trees
grow.


I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting a tree
you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before maturity.
There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around here which will
eventually have to go. Even the most modest British trees are probably
unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy a 20/30 year life before
the chop. Must go now -I need to check the Sequoia:-)


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Old 03-12-2006, 04:46 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Peter Jason" wrote in message

It is about 1/2 meter tall and the top is
growing fast. I don't have a garden and it
lives in a pot on the patio. I just want to
train it into an attractive shape because it
has branches lower down that grow out
horizontally.


I think you wasted your money.

The Wollemi Pine belongs to the Araucaria family and this family

all
grow into huge trees. The really spectacular thing about this

family
is their shape in that they grow enormously tall with stunning

trunks
and have superb pointy tops. There are many wonderful and

enormous
examples in older gardens in Oz (especially old farm gardens) that
were planted in the 19th century and in many Victorian era

cemeteries
(such as Rookwood in Sydney).

The official site for the Wollemi Pine says that the biggest one

in
the wild is 40 metres high so I don't fancy your chances of

keeping it
looking good as a pot plant given the preferred way that these

trees
grow.


I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting

a tree
you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before

maturity.

I have no problems with planting certain trees that will be removed
long before maturity. I live on a farm in a very windy spot and have
another farm also in a very windy spot so we plant pioneer trees to
provide wind slowing and shelter for more tender species or as cattle
shelter. These will mostly all be sacrificed at some stage as
preferable species grow to a size where they can cope. These pioneers
are the trees I put into the green weed category - like Radiata pines
and acacias.

I do however, have problems with buying certain trees knowing that
they will not be treated with the due respect that I believe they
deserve. That is why I have planted oaks and elms and other trees
which will grow long after I'm worm food. Even in a severe drought we
water them at the expense of the rest of the garden. Trees (and
especially mature ones) cannot be replaced but the rest of it can.
But then I love big trees and YMMV.

Yesterday I visited a forest and an Arboretum and saw for the first
time a grove of mature Sugar Pines (Pinus lambertiana) and it was love
at first sight. I now have to find a spot for some of these amazing
trees but I can't do that till the drought breaks as after 6 years of
reduced rain there is no more water for more hungry mouths.

There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around here

which will
eventually have to go. Even the most modest British trees are

probably
unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy a 20/30 year

life before
the chop.


I recognise that it happens. Very sad TMWOT. There is nothing more
majestic or impressive than a huge elm, oak or something similar and
it's very sad to me to see trees chopped down because of poor
planning. I visit certain open gardens repeatedly to see a number of
the big trees which I know I won't be able to grow in my short
remaining life.

Must go now -I need to check the Sequoia:-)


I hope you aren't checking it to plan it's demise.


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Old 04-12-2006, 07:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes
I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting a
tree you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before
maturity. There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around
here which will eventually have to go. Even the most modest British
trees are probably unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy
a 20/30 year life before the chop. Must go now -I need to check the
Sequoia:-)


No, you're not. I've argued this line on urg before.

I don't see it's much different from growing hedges - better, perhaps,
to let a tree have a few years of freedom, than to keep it 'cooped up'
at 6ft high for ever ;-)

--
Kay


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Old 05-12-2006, 01:15 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 4/12/06 18:35, in article , "K"
wrote:

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes
I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting a
tree you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before
maturity. There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around
here which will eventually have to go. Even the most modest British
trees are probably unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy
a 20/30 year life before the chop. Must go now -I need to check the
Sequoia:-)


No, you're not. I've argued this line on urg before.

I don't see it's much different from growing hedges - better, perhaps,
to let a tree have a few years of freedom, than to keep it 'cooped up'
at 6ft high for ever ;-)


Why grow it at all, if only for personally selfish reasons? Would we grow
oaks to act as windbreaks, only to remove them to allow the laurels
planted
inside them to take over? Trees are not animals in the sense of allowing
them 'a few years of freedom'. Many trees live for a very, very much
longer
time than any animal, including the human and IMO, should be planted with
that in mind.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

But we do grow most, if not all, things for selfish reasons. Vegetables
don't stand a chance before they get noshed.
Taking your example to extremes we would never remove any shrub,tree or
perennial or even a weed.
We manage our gardens and plots and as such we do interfere with nature.
"Working with nature" -perhaps,maybe,sometimes but usually not.


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Old 05-12-2006, 04:31 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine



I think you wasted your money.



Not really. Where else can you buy a
150,000,000 year old bonsai?



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Old 05-12-2006, 06:50 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine


"K" wrote in message
...
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes
I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting a tree
you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before
maturity. There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around here
which will eventually have to go. Even the most modest British trees are
probably unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy a 20/30 year
life before the chop. Must go now -I need to check the Sequoia:-)


No, you're not. I've argued this line on urg before.

I don't see it's much different from growing hedges - better, perhaps, to
let a tree have a few years of freedom, than to keep it 'cooped up' at 6ft
high for ever ;-)
Kay


Like this one at the Australian National Botanic Gardens?
http://maeg.textdriven.com/wp-content/cage.jpg (from
http://maeg.textdriven.com/?cat=2)

:~))
Jenny


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Old 05-12-2006, 11:51 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

On 5/12/06 00:15, in article , "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...

snip Why grow it at all, if only for personally selfish reasons? Would
we grow
oaks to act as windbreaks, only to remove them to allow the laurels
planted
inside them to take over? Trees are not animals in the sense of allowing
them 'a few years of freedom'. Many trees live for a very, very much
longer
time than any animal, including the human and IMO, should be planted with
that in mind.



But we do grow most, if not all, things for selfish reasons. Vegetables
don't stand a chance before they get noshed.
Taking your example to extremes we would never remove any shrub,tree or
perennial or even a weed.
We manage our gardens and plots and as such we do interfere with nature.
"Working with nature" -perhaps,maybe,sometimes but usually not.


I suppose I belong to the "plant trees for future generations" school of
thought. And even though it's sometimes necessary, I feel real sadness when
I see a tree being felled. I could never plant a tree telling myself it's
just a temporary arrangement. We're getting some dieback in some of the
older trees in our garden, like the beeches, which is my favourite tree. I
dread the day we're told any of them have to come down and hope most
sincerely I won't be around to see it happen!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/



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Old 05-12-2006, 12:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 5/12/06 00:15, in article , "Rupert
(W.Yorkshire)"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...

snip Why grow it at all, if only for personally selfish reasons?
Would
we grow
oaks to act as windbreaks, only to remove them to allow the laurels
planted
inside them to take over? Trees are not animals in the sense of
allowing
them 'a few years of freedom'. Many trees live for a very, very much
longer
time than any animal, including the human and IMO, should be planted
with
that in mind.



But we do grow most, if not all, things for selfish reasons. Vegetables
don't stand a chance before they get noshed.
Taking your example to extremes we would never remove any shrub,tree or
perennial or even a weed.
We manage our gardens and plots and as such we do interfere with nature.
"Working with nature" -perhaps,maybe,sometimes but usually not.


I suppose I belong to the "plant trees for future generations" school of
thought. And even though it's sometimes necessary, I feel real sadness
when
I see a tree being felled. I could never plant a tree telling myself it's
just a temporary arrangement. We're getting some dieback in some of the
older trees in our garden, like the beeches, which is my favourite tree.
I
dread the day we're told any of them have to come down and hope most
sincerely I won't be around to see it happen!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/


Well if it's any consolation once a tree has been planted around here and
attained either 2m in height or a girth of not much then the tree
preservation man gets involved . He is of your school of thought and will
make you underpin foundations before allowing anything to be chopped. A very
nice man but not to be messed with.
About now the tree surgeon man comes to remove dead wood from one huge beech
(having got permission from the tpo people). I am reliably informed the tree
is dying but will it will be towards the end of this century before it will
be a goner.
When something eventually goes it is a grand opportunity for a re-design.
(Memories of Kew and the great storm)


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Old 05-12-2006, 01:20 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

On 5/12/06 11:57, in article , "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...

snip
I suppose I belong to the "plant trees for future generations" school of
thought. And even though it's sometimes necessary, I feel real sadness
when
I see a tree being felled. I could never plant a tree telling myself it's
just a temporary arrangement. We're getting some dieback in some of the
older trees in our garden, like the beeches, which is my favourite tree.
I
dread the day we're told any of them have to come down and hope most
sincerely I won't be around to see it happen!

Well if it's any consolation once a tree has been planted around here and
attained either 2m in height or a girth of not much then the tree
preservation man gets involved . He is of your school of thought and will
make you underpin foundations before allowing anything to be chopped. A very
nice man but not to be messed with.


I remember being really horrified and even rather cross, with a friend of
mine who wanted to chop down a huge old tree so as to build a conservatory.
The local planning officer said he was going to get a tpo on it to prevent
her doing so. While he went off into town to do just that, she got the
builders to cut it down and when he came back she told him it had been cut
down before he could put a tpo on it and too bad.

About now the tree surgeon man comes to remove dead wood from one huge beech
(having got permission from the tpo people). I am reliably informed the tree
is dying but will it will be towards the end of this century before it will
be a goner.


That, at least, is something! I want us to plant something to replace the
bit Cedrus atlanticus we have at the almost-bottom-of-the-garden but the
problem is what and where. Too far back and it's too close to the wall and
too far forward and it's in the shade of the cedar and competing for food,
too!

When something eventually goes it is a grand opportunity for a re-design.
(Memories of Kew and the great storm)

It certainly is but that's already happened in this garden. They had a big
storm here in 1990 and a great many trees came down, including two cedars
almost as big as the one we have left. Ray says that it let a lot of light
into the garden! Whoever planted it up 150 years ago must have be a real
dendronologist!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

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Sacha writes
On 4/12/06 18:35, in article , "K"
wrote:

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes
I am probably the odd one out but I see nothing wrong with planting a
tree you like and accepting that it will have to be removed long before
maturity. There are plenty of wonderful examples of Araucaria around
here which will eventually have to go. Even the most modest British
trees are probably unsuitable for the average garden but they do enjoy
a 20/30 year life before the chop. Must go now -I need to check the
Sequoia:-)


No, you're not. I've argued this line on urg before.

I don't see it's much different from growing hedges - better, perhaps,
to let a tree have a few years of freedom, than to keep it 'cooped up'
at 6ft high for ever ;-)


Why grow it at all, if only for personally selfish reasons?


Why else are any plants grown that aren't being grown for food or
utility? Or do you mean that we grow our gardens to create a thing of
beauty for others to enjoy? If so, why not grow a tree for the same
reason, even if it has to be removed after 20 years or so when it
outgrows its space?

Would we grow
oaks to act as windbreaks, only to remove them to allow the laurels planted
inside them to take over?


Of course not, but for purely practical reasons - the requirements of a
nurse tree are that it is a) tougher b) grows more rapidly in the early
stages than the thing it is nursing - neither of these apply to oaks as
compared to laurels

Trees are not animals in the sense of allowing
them 'a few years of freedom'.


Precisely. Which is why I find it hard to get worked up about planting
trees to 'selfish' reasons. Is it possible to be selfish if the only ill
effects of your 'selfishness' are on a non-sentient being?

Many trees live for a very, very much longer
time than any animal, including the human and IMO, should be planted with
that in mind.


IMO, too, but from a different perspective.
--
Kay
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:23 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"JennyC" wrote in message
"K" wrote in message


I don't see it's much different from growing hedges - better,

perhaps, to
let a tree have a few years of freedom, than to keep it 'cooped

up' at 6ft
high for ever ;-)
Kay


Like this one at the Australian National Botanic Gardens?
http://maeg.textdriven.com/wp-content/cage.jpg (from
http://maeg.textdriven.com/?cat=2)


An obvious plant theft prevetion device which will be removed when the
tree gets too big to be carried away. The ANBG is in a very open
position and any tea leaf could have away with a small tree very
easily.


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Old 06-12-2006, 12:32 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Wollemi Pine

"Sacha" wrote in message
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message


snip Why grow it at all, if only for personally selfish reasons?

Would
we grow
oaks to act as windbreaks, only to remove them to allow the

laurels
planted
inside them to take over? Trees are not animals in the sense of

allowing
them 'a few years of freedom'. Many trees live for a very, very

much
longer
time than any animal, including the human and IMO, should be

planted with
that in mind.



But we do grow most, if not all, things for selfish reasons.

Vegetables
don't stand a chance before they get noshed.
Taking your example to extremes we would never remove any

shrub,tree or
perennial or even a weed.
We manage our gardens and plots and as such we do interfere with

nature.
"Working with nature" -perhaps,maybe,sometimes but usually not.


I suppose I belong to the "plant trees for future generations"

school of
thought. And even though it's sometimes necessary, I feel real

sadness when
I see a tree being felled.


I'm generally of the same view as you Sacha. Some trees do have to go
sometimes but I get quite irritated when I see truly magnificent and
significant trees being felled when a bit of simple thought could
prevent it. This often applies to housing developments. A lovely tree
goes and in its place go in shoddy housing stock which would so easily
could have been given a slightly different configuration and the
whole development would ahve been vastly improved by leaving the tree
(shoddy building stock notwithstanding). The tree often goes simply
because of devoloper greed rather than any real need.

I could never plant a tree telling myself it's
just a temporary arrangement.


I do but then it's the weed trees that are sacrificial and they are
there for protection of the more significant trees which will come on
as the weed trees are culled. The other thing which we haven't yet
gotten around to doing is to plant firewood trees specifically for
culling or coppicing later - these will be Oz natives which grow like
weeds anyway.

We're getting some dieback in some of the
older trees in our garden, like the beeches, which is my favourite

tree. I
dread the day we're told any of them have to come down and hope most
sincerely I won't be around to see it happen!


I sympathise.


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