On 7/12/06 17:51, in article , "K"
wrote:

Sacha writes
On 6/12/06 21:25, in article , "K"
wrote:


They've taken it back quite a bit and thinned it out quite a lot. As I
said, the company has done a good job and won't have been cheap. And
this was without any fuss, within two weeks of our pointing out the
problem.

That's what I mean about people who do not accept it's going to come down.
They're spending money on it!

If they didn't spend money on it, it'd need to come down now! (before we
slap in a claim for damage to the roof) - I much prefer their current
attitude.

Not quite so sure about the 20ft conifers around the crucifix just over
the wall from our driveway, but that's where the goldcrests live.

Life's full of choices, isn't it? ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"JennyC" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
And of course given that some gardeners only have a pocket
hankerchief
sized garden then they have more desire to fiddle and change
things as
they have less work to do and more chance of getting bored than
those
who have a big garden.

big snip

There is also the aspect of seeing the whole of a very small garden
at one
glance. In a big garden you can have things that have gone over ,
which are
less visible.

LOL.

Although I understand what you mean, it's difficult to apply that
concept to many/most/all?? Australian gardens (large or small). The
standards that apply in British gardens just don't apply here for lots
of reasons (climate, water availability etc). By that I mean that as
things pass their best, they are just a part of the ongoing cycle of
the garden and the fading out has to be seen as a part of the overall
scene rather than having something coming on which will cover the
fading out plants.

As an illustration, the stepmother of a British born friend was
visiting our deep rural locale and a party was organised for her and
the father. At the party someone asked her how she liked Oz. In part
of her reply, she said that there were so many differences that she
noticed and one of them was that no-one in Oz did their edges. The
British born amongst the gathering (who also don't do their edges)
knew what she was talking about (as did I) but the rest of our rural
neighbours didn't have a clue what she was talking about.

in a tiny space - mines 6mt by 8mt - you see every weed, dead
twig etc. I tend to keep a lot of stuff in pots so that I can
rearrange
things as they go over.

To me that seems like such a small area, but then you can keep
something that size looking lovely all the time by doing as you
describe.

My one tree in the garden is a large Rhus in a huge pot :~)) It's
has
sentimental value as it came from a runner from our old house. And
at least
it's architectural in winter :~))

I'll bet it also looks good at other times too. Trees in pots can be
such a nice feature if the plant and the pot are in the right
location.

"Sue" wrote in message

Another reason gardeners can get choice of trees or spacing/position
wrong is misleading info when they do look for advice. One thing
that I
blame is the tendency of some plant labels, and often also books, to
give the height and spread of trees and shrubs as a rough size
*after
ten years* but neglect to give any idea of mature eventual size. The
ten
year bit isn't always stated, either.

Plant labels! Now that is a subject that makes me very cross! I
dunno about the UK, but here the trend in plant labelling seems
designed to mislead or keep people ignorant.

For example, Alstromerias here are being sold under the name of
"Princess Lilly" and nowhere on the label could a mug garden find out
it's real name. I was so cross when I saw this that I simply refused
to buy some that I would rather like in my garden. Since they cope so
well with dry conditions I thought that they'd make a useful addition
to my drought ravaged garden but I simply won't encourage the plant
producers shoddy behaviour by buying them.

"K" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
And of course given that some gardeners only have a pocket
hankerchief
sized garden then they have more desire to fiddle and change
things as
they have less work to do and more chance of getting bored than
those
who have a big garden.

That's an interesting concept. My experience is that most subjects
become more interesting the more you know about them. And in a small
garden, where you can keep on top of the work, there is the
opportunity
to get to know the detail in the way that wouldn't be possible in a
larger garden.

That wasn't really what I meant by referring to the fiddling and
getting bored. I really meant that making quite dramatic changes to a
small garden are much easier than in a big garden (think more along
the lines of those makeover shows)

It's not necessarily so much a 'desire to fiddle' as the opportunity
to
do things in a more 'hands on' way. For example, I can hand weed our
paving, which I couldn't do if I had a large expanse, which means I
can
spot the dianthus and harebells and leave them be, which I wouldn't
be
able to do if I had to use a herbicide.

Even in my very big garden, I still only use herbicdes as a very, very
last resort after every other organic alternative has failed - perhaps
once or twice a year on one or two plants. I hand weed and mulch.
Overall, I've been quite surprised at how few organic gardeners there
are in this forum.

"Sacha" wrote in message
"K" wrote:
snip
I know the copper beech which the church next door planted 8ft
from our
house may have to go eventually, but meanwhile I am happy to see
it
there and to get enjoyment from it. I'm not going to lose sleep
because
it won't make it to maturity.

Weep! Of all things a copper beech - one of the most glorious
things known
to mankind!

Ditto!

"Sacha" wrote in message
"K" wrote:
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
And of course given that some gardeners only have a pocket
hankerchief
sized garden then they have more desire to fiddle and change
things as
they have less work to do and more chance of getting bored than
those
who have a big garden.

That's an interesting concept. My experience is that most subjects
become more interesting the more you know about them. And in a
small
garden, where you can keep on top of the work, there is the
opportunity
to get to know the detail in the way that wouldn't be possible in
a
larger garden.

It's not necessarily so much a 'desire to fiddle' as the
opportunity to
do things in a more 'hands on' way. For example, I can hand weed
our
paving, which I couldn't do if I had a large expanse, which means
I can
spot the dianthus and harebells and leave them be, which I
wouldn't be
able to do if I had to use a herbicide.

Yes, I think Farm1 made a really good point there. But I would say
that you
can get to know the detail in a large garden, too but you just can't
get to
deal with all of it with quite such immediacy. A sort of priority
order has
to come into managing a big garden.

In my case, it's very much an order of slip, sliding priority. I lie
in bed at night and think "tomorrow I'll do x, y and z". I get to bed
the next day and find that I've spent all day trying to clear the
decks sufficinetly so I can properly start on doing x.

I certainly do think that people with large spaces just can't get
too worked
up about minutely scrupulous weeding because they'd spend their
entire lives
in the utmost frustration. OTOH, weeds are green and providing most
get
hoicked out as often as possible, the garden will go on its merry
way.

Have you ever noticed that it is the people who don't garden at all
who notice weeds? I find this constantly. When I visit friends
gardens, they are apologising for the weeds but I see right past the
weeds because I'm looking at it overall and not at the areas that need
attention.

On 8/12/06 07:02, in article
, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

snip
Have you ever noticed that it is the people who don't garden at all
who notice weeds? I find this constantly. When I visit friends
gardens, they are apologising for the weeds but I see right past the
weeds because I'm looking at it overall and not at the areas that need
attention.

Yes! I think people with a passion for plants often totally overlook the
weeds because they're so focused. OTOH, I think, too, that tolerance of
weeds in whatever quantity is down to the individual. I imagine that people
who are terribly tidy in their gardens are ditto in their houses. We're not
a particularly tidy family and in the garden are conscious that it's open
to the public so we have to keep it reasonably neat, especially in the areas
around the house and fishpond. But it's not a 'neat' garden in any sense
and neither of us like what are, to us, over groomed gardens. Others will
differ strongly and prefer plants in tidy rows etc.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote .
"JennyC" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
big snip

no-one in Oz did their edges

One of the reasons I hate lawns :~))))

in a tiny space - mines 6mt by 8mt

To me that seems like such a small area, but then you can keep
something that size looking lovely all the time by doing as you
describe.

It is very small, but I have the same area on the 1st floor roof garden :~))
Plus a tiny strip out front of the house
http://www.ljconline.nl/garden/indexgarden.htm

Jenny

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message

Plant labels! Now that is a subject that makes me very cross! I
dunno about the UK, but here the trend in plant labelling seems
designed to mislead or keep people ignorant.

For example, Alstromerias here are being sold under the name of
"Princess Lilly" and nowhere on the label could a mug garden find
out
it's real name. I was so cross when I saw this that I simply
refused
to buy some that I would rather like in my garden. Since they
cope so
well with dry conditions I thought that they'd make a useful
addition
to my drought ravaged garden but I simply won't encourage the
plant
producers shoddy behaviour by buying them.


You are lucky to get even that info on a plant. Many of the local
supermarket plants are just labelled "Herbaceous perennial" or
"Houseplant".
I once asked for the actual name and the assistant grabbed the label
and
said it was called Herbaceous.

Snort! If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Sue" wrote in message

Another reason gardeners can get choice of trees or spacing/position
wrong is misleading info when they do look for advice. One thing
that I
blame is the tendency of some plant labels, and often also books, to
give the height and spread of trees and shrubs as a rough size
*after
ten years* but neglect to give any idea of mature eventual size. The
ten
year bit isn't always stated, either.

Plant labels! Now that is a subject that makes me very cross! I
dunno about the UK, but here the trend in plant labelling seems
designed to mislead or keep people ignorant.

For example, Alstromerias here are being sold under the name of
"Princess Lilly" and nowhere on the label could a mug garden find out
it's real name. I was so cross when I saw this that I simply refused
to buy some that I would rather like in my garden. Since they cope so
well with dry conditions I thought that they'd make a useful addition
to my drought ravaged garden but I simply won't encourage the plant
producers shoddy behaviour by buying them.


You are lucky to get even that info on a plant. Many of the local
supermarket plants are just labelled "Herbaceous perennial" or "Houseplant".
I once asked for the actual name and the assistant grabbed the label and
said it was called Herbaceous.

"JennyC" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote .
"JennyC" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
big snip

no-one in Oz did their edges

One of the reasons I hate lawns :~))))

I wouldn't know how to do an edge but I have seen plenty in my Uk
gardening mags :-)) Also "lawns" here are generally just grass, those
British things called "lawns" are too resource intensive to have here.

in a tiny space - mines 6mt by 8mt

To me that seems like such a small area, but then you can keep
something that size looking lovely all the time by doing as you
describe.

It is very small, but I have the same area on the 1st floor roof
garden :~))
Plus a tiny strip out front of the house
http://www.ljconline.nl/garden/indexgarden.htm

Nice site and you've done a nice job (but beware the sodding ivy!)

Nice looking chairs too but aren't they cold on the bum?

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote
"JennyC" wrote in message
It is very small, but I have the same area on the 1st floor roof
garden :~))
Plus a tiny strip out front of the house
http://www.ljconline.nl/garden/indexgarden.htm

Nice site and you've done a nice job (but beware the sodding ivy!)

It was here when we bought the house. Removing it would be a nightmare.....
house is up for sale ATM "~))

Nice looking chairs too but aren't they cold on the bum?

Global warming means that summers (and winters !!!) have been getting
hotter here, so it OK. But we do have cushions "~)

jenny

Farm1 writes

Even in my very big garden, I still only use herbicdes as a very, very
last resort after every other organic alternative has failed - perhaps
once or twice a year on one or two plants. I hand weed and mulch.
Overall, I've been quite surprised at how few organic gardeners there
are in this forum.

'Gardening' and 'organic' doesn't really go together here ;-) Most
gardening books exhort you to use fertiliser at regular intervals and
pesticides for preventative use, let alone cure. GC and DIY shop
shelves are heaving with bottles for growing things and killing things.
We have one or two organic gardening gurus, but they are exceptions.
Prince Charles is viewed as decidedly odd by many for his organic views.

Faced with all this as a newbie gardener, it is quite hard to go against
the grain.

Perhaps it's the garden size thing again? If you can't ever stand more
than 10 ft away from the rose bush in your garden, it's more important
that there shouldn't be a single aphid disfiguring it. Organic gardening
can give you healthy plants - what it finds more difficult to achieve is
totally pest-free plants.


--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
Farm1 writes

Even in my very big garden, I still only use herbicdes as a very,
very
last resort after every other organic alternative has failed -
perhaps
once or twice a year on one or two plants. I hand weed and mulch.
Overall, I've been quite surprised at how few organic gardeners
there
are in this forum.

'Gardening' and 'organic' doesn't really go together here ;-)

LOL. I'd noticed, but after I thought about it for a while, I thought
I may have come up with an answer (and yes, it does have [partly] to
do with garden size but not the reason you hyposthesized}.

Most
gardening books exhort you to use fertiliser at regular intervals
and
pesticides for preventative use, let alone cure. GC and DIY shop
shelves are heaving with bottles for growing things and killing
things.

Same thing in the GC and DIY shops too but the Aus garden list (which
is not as active or seemingly as full of people who know what they are
doing as this one) seems much more focussed on organic solutions then
urg (at least that is the impression I've gained over reading it for
some years) and I know that none of my many and varied friends is into
anything more than the odd drop of herbicide. The other thing is that
as I live in the country, the standard of gardens would never be able
to be featured in the Brit garden mags I buy ("the English Garden" and
"Gardens Illustrated")- not high enough maintenance standards (eg
no-one does edges and in a drought a lawn is a thing of the past.

We have one or two organic gardening gurus, but they are exceptions.
Prince Charles is viewed as decidedly odd by many for his organic
views.

Yes, I'd noticed that. Personaly I think he's rather a decent sort
(family background notwithstanding).

Faced with all this as a newbie gardener, it is quite hard to go
against
the grain.

Perhaps it's the garden size thing again? If you can't ever stand
more
than 10 ft away from the rose bush in your garden, it's more
important
that there shouldn't be a single aphid disfiguring it. Organic
gardening
can give you healthy plants - what it finds more difficult to
achieve is
totally pest-free plants.

I suspect that rather than a mere garden size issue, it is more to do
with having close neighbours and being in a fairly crowded land (IIRC,
the population of both the UK and Oz is about the same but what a huge
difference there is in land size).

If near neighbours splash all sorts of nasty crud around, then it is
unlikely that there is going to be much biodiversity in the entire
area as both beneficial birds and insects move around without regard
for human boundaries and the chemical crud simply decimates them.

I don't want fully pest free plants and never would for a number of
reasons - mainly (but not exclusively) birds - I have a husband who is
keen on birds (avian variety!). Every year I get aphids on my roses
but they are gone within a week because the Superb Blue Wrens clean
them up totally.
http://birdsinbackyards.net/finder/display.cfm?id=3

I can sit on my back verandah watching these tiny birds cleaning up
the aphids with no fear at all from we humans. I can see no reason to
cause myself work by dragging out a nasty to spray to kill the aphids
if these wonderful little birds are doing the work for me and giving
me entertainment at the same time.

I also have a lot of "Blue tongue Lizards" and skinks in my garden and
these eat snails but are poisoned by snail bait. They give me a shock
every now and then when I see then because I sometimes mistake them
for snakes but they too are more than welcome. They are preyed on by
the raptor family and I get to see them too.

I think of my garden in a titheing sense. Some for me and some for
the insects, small vertibrates and birds. I won't have kangaroos in
the garden though. they are not tolerated.

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote

I don't want fully pest free plants and never would for a number of
reasons - mainly (but not exclusively) birds - I have a husband who is
keen on birds (avian variety!). Every year I get aphids on my roses
but they are gone within a week because the Superb Blue Wrens clean
them up totally.
http://birdsinbackyards.net/finder/display.cfm?id=3

WOW - pretty :~))

I can sit on my back verandah watching these tiny birds cleaning up
the aphids with no fear at all from we humans. I can see no reason to
cause myself work by dragging out a nasty to spray to kill the aphids
if these wonderful little birds are doing the work for me and giving
me entertainment at the same time.

I also have a lot of "Blue tongue Lizards" and skinks in my garden and
these eat snails but are poisoned by snail bait. They give me a shock
every now and then when I see then because I sometimes mistake them
for snakes but they too are more than welcome. They are preyed on by
the raptor family and I get to see them too.

I think of my garden in a titheing sense. Some for me and some for
the insects, small vertibrates and birds. I won't have kangaroos in
the garden though. they are not tolerated.

Lizards, skinks, raptors (!!!)................

Do you have some pictures of your garden to share with us ??

Jenny