Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs)
On 24/1/07 13:05, in article
, "Mike Lyle" wrote: On Jan 24, 10:20?am, Martin wrote: On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:24:36 -0000, "MikeLyle" [...] Even wheeling it down a public road with no tax wouldn't actually be arrestable; No VAT has been paid on the vehicles, that is an offence. Arrestable? Doesn't there have to be a court order? I'd have thought it would have had to go through normal VAT recovery procedures before it became a police matter. We are seeing that it just isn't unlawful to possess ordinary stuff you've salvaged: that's what the 28 days thing is about.It is illegal to be in possession of goods on which VAT/taxes haven't been paid. Try entering UK with an untaxed unregistered m/bike. Did you ever see HM C&E VAT inspectors operating at an agricultural show? Oh, su but that's planned months in advance, with controlled exits and entrances closed at night, hotels booked, proper car parking, toilet facilities, all that. But I wonder how practicable it would be to get a task force of C&E officers down to a beach at short notice to go through the procedures 24 hours a day. In winter. We haven't even got enough to secure all our ports under normal conditions. and I'm sure the bikes were all safely on other vehicles. I really don't envy the police in situations like this: it doesn't make them look particularly good from one point of view, but they'd look worse if they started getting officious. If they had acted quick and closed the beach, it would have looked better to any honest person. Well, I don't think that's the kind of thing they can do in Britain without a lot of deliberation. They've done it now, I believe; but it's a big step to stop you walking your dog on the beach just because somebody else may perhaps have committed a crime on that beach. Our politicians may like the idea, but it isn't British. Yet. It seems to be, they were just slow in reacting. As I said to Sacha, I'm on the side of the coppers in this freak situation. I don't blame the police themselves in this situation. The D&C Constabulary is grossly over-stretched. But I do blame whoever deploys them and whoever didn't have the sheer native common sense to fence off the access from the get-go. A local farmer has had a chain saw stolen and tractor parts have gone as well. Sheds and beach huts have had their doors stoved in and a boat has been stolen, too. This is looting and theft, pure and simple, IME and it's not edifying to think that this is yet another nail in the coffin of honesty and good behaviour in general. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
On 24/1/07 12:35, in article ,
"Martin" wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:04:18 +0000, David Rance wrote: On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 Robert wrote: : Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in : appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. : : PS It is said that ships were sometime lured onto rocks with : judiciously placed lights so that wrecking could take place. Good luck to them I say. If someone has the cheek to put a ship like that to sea, endangering our coast, then they deserve no compassion and their cargo is 'fair game'. The only quite big problem I have with this ship's cargo is that the redistribution is causing more damage to the beach than the original containers were... But that's hardly fair to those people who were entrusting their personal belongings to a transport company and which were seen to be stolen when reported on television as, for instance, the couple who had emigrated to South Africa. Ok, so they were insured (I suppose) but you can't replace something with sentimental value. They said they were under-insured. Latest reports are that their goods are being returned to them by those who 'found' them. Hope it's true. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
"David Rance" wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 Robert wrote: : Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in : appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. : : PS It is said that ships were sometime lured onto rocks with : judiciously placed lights so that wrecking could take place. Good luck to them I say. If someone has the cheek to put a ship like that to sea, endangering our coast, then they deserve no compassion and their cargo is 'fair game'. The only quite big problem I have with this ship's cargo is that the redistribution is causing more damage to the beach than the original containers were... But that's hardly fair to those people who were entrusting their personal belongings to a transport company and which were seen to be stolen when reported on television as, for instance, the couple who had emigrated to South Africa. Ok, so they were insured (I suppose) but you can't replace something with sentimental value. Then, hopefully, they willsue the transort company for the loss, and for compensation. Alan David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:21:25 -0000, "Keith \(Dorset\)"
wrote: Hi Chris, You Kerns are indeed a brutish lot! Having said that, whatever valuables I ever find here at Portland Bill, or Chesil Cove - (some chance). I'll keep. Same here. If one of those oak wine barrels drifts onto our beach I'll have it (except I'd have to be up very early to beat the rush!). On SW ITV1 on Tuesday of this week at 7.30pm you may have seen the programme 'A Westcountry Childhood: The Lure of the Sea', in which two or three 'old salts' recalled their childhood memories of the twenties and thirties. There was some fascinating B&W cine film, including a very timely short piece on wrecking. Pictures of crowds of people including children hauling stuff away from a wreck in handcarts etc, just as they are at Branscombe now. It was ever thus! I can remember as a child rummaging over a wreck in St. Ives Bay (a large timber-built fishing boat, I think) and coming away with some trivial item of no value (nothing else was left!). The authorities eventually burnt the boat, as I remember, as it was beyond salvaging. But I feel sorry for the individuals who lost personal property, especially as they actually saw it disappearing, or so I understand. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
Hi Chris,
Unfortunately I didn't see the programme, but I'll keep a lookout for a repeat (which in this day and age is inevitable). We are rather 'pigs in the middle' here and get BBC South Today and ITV Westcountry! We get pushed off the edge on many of the TV weather maps! Not that they are any use. The shipping forecast is much more meaningful. Well... even that's subject to the weather - and indeed where one's house is in the village. I too feel sorry for the people who lost sentimental personal possessions in the wreck... 'everything else' though would surely have been adequately insured. The ship was, as you may know, on its way up here to Portland harbour. As far as I know, friends who were looking out for it (+ tugs I imagine), are still out there - eyes peeled! Best wishes, Keith "Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:21:25 -0000, "Keith \(Dorset\)" wrote: Hi Chris, You Kerns are indeed a brutish lot! Having said that, whatever valuables I ever find here at Portland Bill, or Chesil Cove - (some chance). I'll keep. Same here. If one of those oak wine barrels drifts onto our beach I'll have it (except I'd have to be up very early to beat the rush!). On SW ITV1 on Tuesday of this week at 7.30pm you may have seen the programme 'A Westcountry Childhood: The Lure of the Sea', in which two or three 'old salts' recalled their childhood memories of the twenties and thirties. There was some fascinating B&W cine film, including a very timely short piece on wrecking. Pictures of crowds of people including children hauling stuff away from a wreck in handcarts etc, just as they are at Branscombe now. It was ever thus! I can remember as a child rummaging over a wreck in St. Ives Bay (a large timber-built fishing boat, I think) and coming away with some trivial item of no value (nothing else was left!). The authorities eventually burnt the boat, as I remember, as it was beyond salvaging. But I feel sorry for the individuals who lost personal property, especially as they actually saw it disappearing, or so I understand. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
Let me re-phrase that Chris, ......We are rather 'pigs in the middle' here and get BBC South Today and ITV Westcountry! Well... even that's subject to the weather - and indeed where one's house is in the village. We get pushed off the edge on many of the TV weather maps! Not that they are any use. The shipping forecast is much more meaningful. Cheers, Keith "Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message ... Hi Chris, Unfortunately I didn't see the programme, but I'll keep a lookout for a repeat (which in this day and age is inevitable). We are rather 'pigs in the middle' here and get BBC South Today and ITV Westcountry! We get pushed off the edge on many of the TV weather maps! Not that they are any use. The shipping forecast is much more meaningful. Well... even that's subject to the weather - and indeed where one's house is in the village. I too feel sorry for the people who lost sentimental personal possessions in the wreck... 'everything else' though would surely have been adequately insured. The ship was, as you may know, on its way up here to Portland harbour. As far as I know, friends who were looking out for it (+ tugs I imagine), are still out there - eyes peeled! Best wishes, Keith "Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:21:25 -0000, "Keith \(Dorset\)" wrote: Hi Chris, You Kerns are indeed a brutish lot! Having said that, whatever valuables I ever find here at Portland Bill, or Chesil Cove - (some chance). I'll keep. Same here. If one of those oak wine barrels drifts onto our beach I'll have it (except I'd have to be up very early to beat the rush!). On SW ITV1 on Tuesday of this week at 7.30pm you may have seen the programme 'A Westcountry Childhood: The Lure of the Sea', in which two or three 'old salts' recalled their childhood memories of the twenties and thirties. There was some fascinating B&W cine film, including a very timely short piece on wrecking. Pictures of crowds of people including children hauling stuff away from a wreck in handcarts etc, just as they are at Branscombe now. It was ever thus! I can remember as a child rummaging over a wreck in St. Ives Bay (a large timber-built fishing boat, I think) and coming away with some trivial item of no value (nothing else was left!). The authorities eventually burnt the boat, as I remember, as it was beyond salvaging. But I feel sorry for the individuals who lost personal property, especially as they actually saw it disappearing, or so I understand. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... On 24/1/07 09:04, in article , "David Rance" wrote: On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 Robert wrote: : Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in : appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. : : PS It is said that ships were sometime lured onto rocks with : judiciously placed lights so that wrecking could take place. Good luck to them I say. If someone has the cheek to put a ship like that to sea, endangering our coast, then they deserve no compassion and their cargo is 'fair game'. The only quite big problem I have with this ship's cargo is that the redistribution is causing more damage to the beach than the original containers were... But that's hardly fair to those people who were entrusting their personal belongings to a transport company and which were seen to be stolen when reported on television as, for instance, the couple who had emigrated to South Africa. Ok, so they were insured (I suppose) but you can't replace something with sentimental value. David Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ship, the shipping company, insurance or the lack of it, it is NOT right to steal things that belong to others, whether it's a couple moving home or a large factory in China. And this was stealing, whether the law calls it that or not. The idea that the thieves have 28 days in which to fill in a form and return it is just a piece of passing the buck bureaucratic nonsense. The stuff taken from that beach is already appearing for sale on eBay. But had the shipping company not overloaded the ship this calamity would not have happened. The blame lays fair and square with the company. Alan |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
On 24/1/07 23:44, in article ,
"Alan Holmes" wrote: "Sacha" wrote in message . uk... snip Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ship, the shipping company, insurance or the lack of it, it is NOT right to steal things that belong to others, whether it's a couple moving home or a large factory in China. And this was stealing, whether the law calls it that or not. The idea that the thieves have 28 days in which to fill in a form and return it is just a piece of passing the buck bureaucratic nonsense. The stuff taken from that beach is already appearing for sale on eBay. But had the shipping company not overloaded the ship this calamity would not have happened. The blame lays fair and square with the company. That may be so and I'm sure an inquiry will go into all that. But regardless of that, people did not have to behave like pigs at the trough. That was *their* choice, regardless of the causes and circumstances and what transpired was genuinely indecent, IMO. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
... But had the shipping company not overloaded the ship this calamity would not have happened. The blame lays fair and square with the company. Alan Please show where you received information that the ship was overloaded. First I have heard of this and I find it hard to believe. Mike -- .................................................. ......... Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association www.rnshipmates.co.uk www.nsrafa.com |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs)
In article , Sacha
writes And today, we read of one woman whose car was hit by a falling branch in the storms and wrecked. She, her son and her mother were lucky to escape with their lives. Police told her to leave it where it was until she could arrange for its disposal, because it was un-driveable. So when she went back next day, there was a parking ticket on it AND someone had stolen the stereo! When I worked as the RSM's clerk in Chatham, the chief clerk came in one morning and said he had had a puncture along the A2. He'd been followed by another soldier who lived off camp. They got out and jacked up the car and had taken the wheel off when another car stopped and a man got out. Instead of helping, the man told the CC that if they were taking the front wheel would he mind if he took the back ones and the radio!! Janet -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
In article , "Keith (Dorset)"
writes Wrecking is a time-old tradition whereby coastal dwellers have always supplemented their often meagre earnings by salvaging items of value from the shoreline at the time of a wreck. Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. Pardon me for my ignorance but I always thought that wreckers were the murderous little swine who lured ships onto rocks thereby destroying them and murdering the sailors on board. It's one thing to salvage stuff from a beach another to deliberately kill sailors! Not that I'm condoning the looters but surely they aren't 'wreckers'? janet -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs)
On 28/1/07 11:23, in article , "Janet Tweedy"
wrote: In article , Sacha writes And today, we read of one woman whose car was hit by a falling branch in the storms and wrecked. She, her son and her mother were lucky to escape with their lives. Police told her to leave it where it was until she could arrange for its disposal, because it was un-driveable. So when she went back next day, there was a parking ticket on it AND someone had stolen the stereo! When I worked as the RSM's clerk in Chatham, the chief clerk came in one morning and said he had had a puncture along the A2. He'd been followed by another soldier who lived off camp. They got out and jacked up the car and had taken the wheel off when another car stopped and a man got out. Instead of helping, the man told the CC that if they were taking the front wheel would he mind if he took the back ones and the radio!! Grooaaaan. What a wonderful world....! -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
On 28/1/07 11:32, in article , "Janet Tweedy"
wrote: In article , "Keith (Dorset)" writes Wrecking is a time-old tradition whereby coastal dwellers have always supplemented their often meagre earnings by salvaging items of value from the shoreline at the time of a wreck. Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. Pardon me for my ignorance but I always thought that wreckers were the murderous little swine who lured ships onto rocks thereby destroying them and murdering the sailors on board. It's one thing to salvage stuff from a beach another to deliberately kill sailors! Not that I'm condoning the looters but surely they aren't 'wreckers'? janet No, they're not wreckers. Your definition is the correct one. Sometimes, if passengers and crew reached the shore in safety, the wreckers would kill them to stop them either telling the tale of what happened, or to steal the jewellery they were wearing. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Devon Beach (Free Pampers & BMWs) (OT)
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:35:45 +0000, Sacha
wrote: On 28/1/07 11:32, in article , "Janet Tweedy" wrote: In article , "Keith (Dorset)" writes Wrecking is a time-old tradition whereby coastal dwellers have always supplemented their often meagre earnings by salvaging items of value from the shoreline at the time of a wreck. Here in Dorset, often the whole community would venture out, often in appalling weather to grab whatever was there for the taking. Pardon me for my ignorance but I always thought that wreckers were the murderous little swine who lured ships onto rocks thereby destroying them and murdering the sailors on board. It's one thing to salvage stuff from a beach another to deliberately kill sailors! Not that I'm condoning the looters but surely they aren't 'wreckers'? janet No, they're not wreckers. Your definition is the correct one. Sometimes, if passengers and crew reached the shore in safety, the wreckers would kill them to stop them either telling the tale of what happened, or to steal the jewellery they were wearing. Er...you have documentary evidence to support this? I cannot speak for other parts of the country, but as far as Cornwall is concerned, there is no documentary evidence for the oft-repeated accusation that ships were lured onto the rocks by wreckers waving lamps on the shore, tying them to donkeys tails to wander along the cliff-tops, etc. (See for example: Henderson, Essays in Cornish History, O.U.P., 1935, pp. 172-179). It's a popular myth that owes more to Victorian melodrama than fact. It's a moot point whether the practice would have been very successful anyway. In the days of sail (which is what we're talking about), lights on land far outnumbered lights at sea. So a light was something to avoid rather than head for. In Cornwall, the term 'wreckers' applies to those people who descend on a wreck and strip it. It is a term still in general use, as is the activity, given half a chance. If the people said to deliberately lure ships onto rocks existed, I'm sure they would also be called wreckers. Whether wreckers also harmed the survivors is less clear. There is certainly evidence that in some cases survivors would be stripped of their valuables and even their clothes, and left to fend for themselves rather than being assisted, but no evidence AFAIK that they were actually murdered (see e.g. George Borlase, writing in the Lanisly letters, 1750 to 1756). But equally, there is plenty of evidence of heroic efforts being made by the local population to rescue survivors, often putting their own lives at risk and in some cases even losing them (see Henderson again, also Noall and Farr, 'Wreck and Rescue Round the Cornish Coast', Truro Bookshop, 1965). Perhaps things were different in the Channel Isles. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Free GIS Software, Download Google Earth Maps, Trace & save GPSroute, View & Rectify Raster Images, Edit & make shape files | Gardening | |||
Free Website, Free Domain, Free Installation, Free Scripts | United Kingdom | |||
Banned Herbicides &&&& Pesticides | United Kingdom | |||
Frost in S. Devon | United Kingdom | |||
Limp Broad Beans(was Frost in S. Devon) | United Kingdom |