On 25/1/07 17:44, in article
, "The Minister"
wrote:



On Jan 25, 11:34 am, "La Puce" wrote:
All our white goods, until
last year, were hired -

why was renting household electrical goods any more ecological than
buying them?
Renting makes bugger all difference to environmental impact from how
they were manufactured,used or disposed of

you are a bit bit late to feel all sensitive about anyone mentioning
your workplace on here after all your comments to others in earlier
threads about your workplace take a look and see if you can count how
many times you mentioned urbed and your job in it and their jobs which
you were involved in (as a pen giver outer) as I said, u have too much
time and idle hands...............and idle mouth.................and....

Well the URBED boasts are certainly in the archives. And in my own, given
the grief that came with them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

On 25/1/07 17:59, in article , "K"
wrote:

Bob Hobden writes
I often wondered why supermarkets use so much packaging until I
recently saw a well dressed middle aged lady picking up produce,
inspecting it, and then throwing it back, and I do mean throwing. The
broccoli head exploded as it hit the others in the box and goodness
knows what the avocado was like when she finished with it. I've also
seen a number of people throwing produce into their trolleys lately and
compounding it by throwing heavy stuff on top, they seem incapable of
placing anything gently, just too damn lazy perhaps or conned into
thinking they have a busy and demanding life.

Both our local supermarkets compound the problem by placing their fruit
and veg near the entrance, so either you are constantly rearranging your
load to keep them at the top, or you pick up the heavies first and then
struggle against the flow to get back to the veg.

Don't all supermarkets do that? I don't think I've ever been to an ordinary
supermarket that doesn't have all that 'healthy' stuff at the entrance. I
know they're arranged on some psychological factor or other but I'm assuming
that the veg near the front is to make you feel that you're doing a 'good
thing' by shopping for your family at that store. The essentials like meat
and bread and fish are at the back of the store, thus luring you further and
further in. Apart from the Tesco superstore at Lee Mill, near Plymouth,
which has electrical and household goods to your right immediately as you
enter and the fruit & veg stuff a little over to your left, I don't know of
another variation.
As to the light/heavy stuff, again it's something everyone moans about. You
get all the squashy stuff at the beginning and at the end of the shop you
pick up bottles of wine or water etc. and then when you unload the trolley
and reload your car everything simply repeats itself. The supermarket
experience is horrible but I will say that when I order online, I spend a
lot less than I do when I visit personally. I can't help thinking that one
day they're going to figure that out.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

In article , says...
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

I don't know how often you have been told that but I regularly request not
to have a bag and have almost never been refused. In fact the only place I
can recall being difficult was WH SMITH so that is a place where I no longer
shop

Gill M

Gill Matthews writes
In article ,
says...
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

I don't know how often you have been told that but I regularly request not
to have a bag and have almost never been refused. In fact the only place I
can recall being difficult was WH SMITH so that is a place where I no longer
shop

I've never had a problem refusing a bag, and that includes WH Smith
--
Kay

Wow, I am truly surprised at the response my inital post has generated. From the rejection of plastic bags to the cost of manufacturing white goods.

My struggle with all of this is still that what I do at home won't have an impact whilst China is depositing all that waste into the environment.

But even though I do struggle with that issue I still do my best to make the right decisions.

However the biggest impact I can make is in the business environment. I run a couple of businesses and we are starting to look at the ways we can reduce the waste that the company generates.

1) We use pallets, these are reused. Every time we build up 300 used pallets they get collected and we get a small amount back that covers the man power and storage costs of saving the pallets. I know many other companies that have a bonfire and burn their used pallets as it isn't financially worth saving them.

2) Many products come packed in multiples that then need to be broken down before being sold. This results in waste boxes. Where possible (and in most cases) we reuse these boxes to send other product back out to customers via couriers. This save us money and also allows the box to be reused. Where a box cannot be reused it is recycled. We use to have problems getting rid of the boxes. The local tip would not recycle them as they are business waste (explain that). We have now found a company that provides a skip that we fill. They take the cardboard and recycle it. We don't get a penny but its great that they get recycled.

3) All our computers and electrics are turned off at night. Nothing is left on standby. We had a power cut recently (after the high winds) and we managed to run the entire business off a small generator.

4) We make product selection based on the suppliers ethics where possible. We have just chosen our water butt supplier based on the fact that they are now manufactured in the UK. Its great that they are coming in at the same price as the imported alternative.

5) We are also now looking at ways we can reduce the other packaging methods that we are using. We need to use less bubble wrap to protect products. For around £4k we can purchase an industrial cardboard shredder. It will allow us to turn the cardboard that we do recycle at the moment directly into packing material. We will therefore use less bubble and the shredded cardboard can be either recycled by the consumer or composted.

6) By the very nature of our business we only sell well made reliable products. We couldn't sell poor low quality products and still operate. All our items get delivered to customer via a courier so if it fails it become very costly the get the product uplifted and a new one delivered. A product failure rate has to be under 4%. If its greater than this then we withdraw that product. You would be surprised at a couple of products that we withdrew last year. Made by one of the best know names in the UK, failure rate was too high, ends up it was made in a factory in Asia.

We are also looking at other measures and we have been looking at government grants but it doesn't appear to be an area that the government are rewarding at the moment.

Ainsley
www.garden4less.co.uk

On 25/1/07 22:39, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:40:59 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

If you grow your own, there is absolutely no comparison. I hope we can find
room for a few more this year. It's like eating something you've never
encountered before.

I said the same the first time I ate Dutch cucumber and tomatoes :-)

Is that cue spooky music? ;-))

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

In message , Tim C.
wrote
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

Shop elsewhere. In shops such as Aldi and Lidl the bags don't come free.
The majority of customers use their own reusable bags.



--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On 25/1/07 23:07, in article , "Alan"
wrote:

In message , Tim C.
wrote
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

Shop elsewhere. In shops such as Aldi and Lidl the bags don't come free.
The majority of customers use their own reusable bags.

Nobody forces you to take a bag! If you don't, they save money, after all.
Take the till receipt and smile nicely. That's it.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

On 25/1/07 23:12, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:07:06 +0000, Alan wrote:

In message , Tim C.
wrote
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

Shop elsewhere. In shops such as Aldi and Lidl the bags don't come free.
The majority of customers use their own reusable bags.

I think Tim already does, I do too.

One can do the same at any supermarket. But I think the original point was
made about small shops - a shops that sells cards only. As far as I know,
there is no legislation that requires anyone to have their purchased goods
put in a bag supplied by the shop from which the goods are purchased. If
you think someone is going to challenge your ownership of said goods, all
you do is show them the receipt. A bag is not a receipt.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...

A bag is not a receipt.

Indeed. But back, back, in the mists of time, possibly as far
back as the time when everything in Woolworth was 6d - the bag
alone was proof of purchase. Something like that. Maybe they
never bothered issuing till receipts as everything was 6d anyway.
Then with variable prices maybe the custom stuck. They still never
issued till receipts up until comparatively recently. 20 years ago
with the introduction of EPOS maybe? It was definitely a Woolworths
thing. But maybe only a Woolworths thing.

michael adams

....


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

On 26/1/07 07:55, in article , "michael
adams" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...

A bag is not a receipt.

Indeed. But back, back, in the mists of time, possibly as far
back as the time when everything in Woolworth was 6d - the bag
alone was proof of purchase. Something like that. Maybe they
never bothered issuing till receipts as everything was 6d anyway.
Then with variable prices maybe the custom stuck. They still never
issued till receipts up until comparatively recently. 20 years ago
with the introduction of EPOS maybe? It was definitely a Woolworths
thing. But maybe only a Woolworths thing.

My grandmother never let me go into Woolworths when I was a child. She was
convinced it was one of the prime places in which to catch polio. She also
believed it was bad luck to pick up one of your own gloves if you dropped it
and that it was bad luck to cross people on the stairs. ;--)
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Hi Sacha,

I can tell you from my days in FMCG marketing, the reason the fruit and veg are placed near the door is the psychology of buying: once you start picking things up, apparently you are more likely to continue.

So, we are presented with fruit and veg which most people definitely want: we handle them, and this "gets us started" with handling and therefore buying stuff.

Previously, customers used to wander in, go round the shop until they reached the veg, and not make lots of lovely impulse buys on the way.

Fascinating stuff, huh.

And we all know about the lure of the in-house bakery to give all those lovely smells of baking, to make us hungry....

Can't agree more about the joys of on-line shopping, did it for the first time last month, it was easy, quick, efficient: but I wouldn't buy meat or veg that way. Assuming that their van is more fuel-efficient than my (ancient) car, I reckon it's better to have them deliver all my heavy stuff once a month, and I'll support my small shops for fruit and veg.

How does that sound?

Rachel

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 26/1/07 07:55, in article , "michael
adams" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...

A bag is not a receipt.

Indeed. But back, back, in the mists of time, possibly as far
back as the time when everything in Woolworth was 6d - the bag
alone was proof of purchase. Something like that. Maybe they
never bothered issuing till receipts as everything was 6d anyway.
Then with variable prices maybe the custom stuck. They still never
issued till receipts up until comparatively recently. 20 years ago
with the introduction of EPOS maybe? It was definitely a Woolworths
thing. But maybe only a Woolworths thing.

My grandmother never let me go into Woolworths when I was a child. She
was
convinced it was one of the prime places in which to catch polio. She
also
believed it was bad luck to pick up one of your own gloves if you dropped
it
and that it was bad luck to cross people on the stairs. ;--)

....

I used to be taken to Woolworths to buy an occasional Post Office
Set - 2/11, or more usually an exercise book with squares or some
pencils 6d, or 1/- most Saturdays. That Woolworths is still there,
still trading as Woolworths. Changed beyond recognition except for
the ceilings. The roses for the old light fittings etc. are still up
there. And until around 5 years ago the original maple floors. Not
that I've actually bought much\anything in there for years now. I
just go in and stare up at the ceiling now and again for old times sake.
ISTR finding a glove or gloves, and putting them where the loser can
find them rather than leaving them lying in the street, may have
been considered lucky.


michael adams

....




--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Anne Jackson" wrote in message
...
The message from June Hughes contains
these words:
Anne Jackson writes
The message from Tim C. contains these words:
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank
you"
and take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request
by UK shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

Nonsense! I have been refusing carrier bags for over 20 years, and
as long as you sound as if you know what you're talking about, *all*
shop staff will accept your statement that a bag is not necessary!

They are good for picking up dog-pooh! Saves the expense of
manufacturing lots of little black doggie-do-do bags.

Some local councils provide dog-bags at a very reasonable price and
others provide them free of charge. Barnet Council provides very few
dog-bins for putting the poo into and wouldn't dream of providing any
bags for picking up the stuff.

I have seen at some parks and reserves large steel cages full of plastic
bags made available for dog walkers. The public biff their bags in the cage,
dog owners take them out and deposit with dog poop in bin.

Just a few hundred yards from our house there's a wonderful hill, just
perfect for walking dogs. Lots of rough grass, broom, whin bushes, etc.
and half the dog owners in Perth walk their mutts there. Years ago, you
might come upon the occasional poo, as you walked up the path, but given
the number of dogs walked there in the course of a day, it might have
been annoying, but it wasn't surprising.

Now, since the Council decided to make picking up dog poo a requirement,
(and enforcing it!) all you can see, from the car park to the very top
of the hill, are supermarket carrier bags...hundreds of the damned things!
Hanging from the bushes, and some have even been blown to the tops of the
trees! Before the recent policy came into force, the rain (and we have
plenty of that!) took care of the dog poo, washing it into the soil;

my dogs poop goes under the hedge, why waste a good manure by putting it in
the rubbish bin.

Of course, the dog owners should put the bags into the bins provided
at all access points, but they're not prepared to carry them, once
they've fulfilled their purpose...

lazy gits, pick up the poop and walk to the closest rubbish bin. If I saw
some lazy arsehole doing that they would get aright earful.

rob

In message , Anne Jackson
writes
The message from Tim C. contains these words:
Following up to Sacha :

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag.

That's what I said, but it seems this isn't an acceptable request by UK
shopkeepers. I've been told, so now I know.

Nonsense! I have been refusing carrier bags for over 20 years, and
as long as you sound as if you know what you're talking about, *all*
shop staff will accept your statement that a bag is not necessary!

They are good for picking up dog-pooh! Saves the expense of
manufacturing lots of little black doggie-do-do bags.

Some local councils provide dog-bags at a very reasonable price and
others provide them free of charge. Barnet Council provides very few
dog-bins for putting the poo into and wouldn't dream of providing any
bags for picking up the stuff.

In addition, there are at least four abandoned/stolen motor bikes in
Pymms Brook, which is a conservation area. Barnet Council are aware of
them - they just haven't bothered to take them away. (I know they are
aware because I have spoken many times to them asking them to remove
the offending articles). Shame!
--
June Hughes