I would like to hear people opinion on the following.

Its my view that reducing our personal fossil fuel usage and recycling is not the most important thing to helping our environment.

It is in fact our attitude on constantly trying to save money all the time. We now have a cheap throwaway culture. We now expect everything to be cheap and then when it breaks of fails we are not surprised. Most of these goods come from Asia. Which is now the highest pollutant in the world.

Once we expected a product to last, yes it did cost more but it lasted. I have members of my family that are happy to buy a pair of cheap secateurs for less than £10, use for a season and then throw them away, instead of looking after a good paid for their entire life. Its worse with electrical goods. The cheaper we can get them the better!! Yes we buy a cheap unbranded strimmer from our local DIY store and after one or two years it gets thrown away. Did we need the strimmer in the first pace? Couldn't we have spent a little more on something that was made in regulated Europe and will maybe last longer?

Cheaper is always at a cost!

I am shocked at the amount of toys my children have this year and the amount that are never going to be used. Cheap plastic toys that have taken energy and world resources to produce for absolutely no reason. After 2 years of not being used these are going to go into the bin, and yes they are plastic so will not be recycled.

Flights for £5? Another example of our current attitude. Maybe there should be a £50 environmental charge on top of this. Every time we fly a few trees are planted. We always want to do as we like regardless of the cost to the environment, but are we happier than previous generations that didn't. I don't believe we are.

Ainsley

"garden-addicted" wrote in
message ...

I would like to hear people opinion on the following.

Its my view that reducing our personal fossil fuel usage and recycling
is not the most important thing to helping our environment.

It is in fact our attitude on constantly trying to save money all the
time. We now have a cheap throwaway culture. We now expect everything
to be cheap and then when it breaks of fails we are not surprised. Most
of these goods come from Asia. Which is now the highest pollutant in the
world.

Once we expected a product to last, yes it did cost more but it lasted.
I have members of my family that are happy to buy a pair of cheap
secateurs for less than £10, use for a season and then throw them away,
instead of looking after a good paid for their entire life. Its worse
with electrical goods. The cheaper we can get them the better!! Yes we
buy a cheap unbranded strimmer from our local DIY store and after one
or two years it gets thrown away. Did we need the strimmer in the first
pace? Couldn't we have spent a little more on something that was made in
regulated Europe and will maybe last longer?

Cheaper is always at a cost!

I am shocked at the amount of toys my children have this year and the
amount that are never going to be used. Cheap plastic toys that have
taken energy and world resources to produce for absolutely no reason.
After 2 years of not being used these are going to go into the bin, and
yes they are plastic so will not be recycled.

Flights for £5? Another example of our current attitude. Maybe there
should be a £50 environmental charge on top of this. Every time we fly
a few trees are planted. We always want to do as we like regardless of
the cost to the environment, but are we happier than previous
generations that didn't. I don't believe we are.

Ainsley


Couldn't agree more. Packaging is the worse offender. You buy a special
Birthday/Wedding Anniversary card and it is wrapped in a cellophane sleeve.
The shop then puts it in a paper bag :-((

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"George.com" wrote in message
...

A line from a Sting song written 22 years
ago now sums it up for me "forever conditioned to believe that we
can't live here and be happy with less".

rob


So was that the point at which Sting decided he no longer wanted to
be a multimillionaire rock star, gave all his money away to charity
and stopped making records which people could obviously live without ?

Seemingly not, if his discography is anything to go by.

Poor old Sting eh ? "Forever conditioned" to be a multimillionaire
rock star.

Our thoughts go with him, I'm sure.

stings lifestyle apart, the sentiment works for me. It acts as a good guise
by which to many things told to me by advertising or wants that people are
trying to turn in to needs."Buy this, be an individual", just like the
millions of other people. "This will improve your lifestyle", as well as
lightening your wallet. I refuse to be conditioned to be a consumer I guess.

rob

"garden-addicted" wrote in
message ...

I would like to hear people opinion on the following.

Its my view that reducing our personal fossil fuel usage and recycling
is not the most important thing to helping our environment.

It is in fact our attitude on constantly trying to save money all the
time. We now have a cheap throwaway culture. We now expect everything
to be cheap and then when it breaks of fails we are not surprised. Most
of these goods come from Asia. Which is now the highest pollutant in the
world.

Once we expected a product to last, yes it did cost more but it lasted.
I have members of my family that are happy to buy a pair of cheap
secateurs for less than £10, use for a season and then throw them away,
instead of looking after a good paid for their entire life. Its worse
with electrical goods. The cheaper we can get them the better!! Yes we
buy a cheap unbranded strimmer from our local DIY store and after one
or two years it gets thrown away. Did we need the strimmer in the first
pace? Couldn't we have spent a little more on something that was made in
regulated Europe and will maybe last longer?

Cheaper is always at a cost!

I am shocked at the amount of toys my children have this year and the
amount that are never going to be used. Cheap plastic toys that have
taken energy and world resources to produce for absolutely no reason.
After 2 years of not being used these are going to go into the bin, and
yes they are plastic so will not be recycled.

Flights for £5? Another example of our current attitude. Maybe there
should be a £50 environmental charge on top of this. Every time we fly
a few trees are planted. We always want to do as we like regardless of
the cost to the environment, but are we happier than previous
generations that didn't. I don't believe we are.

this is part of the problem, and part of the solution I will grant you. Its
a wholistic approach however that makes the big difference.

For example - George W has suddenly discovered global warming and speaks of
converting more corn to ethanol. Less greenhouse gases he reckons. Problem
is, food is being processed in to gas. Food is needed to feed people, it
also takes all manner of inputs to grow. Is it a viable option? Sure,
greenhouse gases may be reduced but are the enviro costs simply being
transfered elsewhere.

Some people say why should small countries make an effort with global
warming when George W just sat on his hands. Answer, because every bit
people do goes toward solving problems. If George doesn't give a shit and I
don't give a shit then we are likely in shit.

I agree that we consume too much useless shit and too much useless shit that
breaks down quickly. The answer lies I think in the simple mantra reuse,
reduce, recycle. Recycle comes at the end of reuse and reduce. Reuse comes
first.

If we use something once can we use it over again, and again, and again. If
not, can we reduce what we consume. Only after those 2 questions should we
look at recycling.

I wore through the butt of a pair of short I wear around home and walking
the mutts. I could go to the local dept store and but a $20 pair made in
China. Why however, when there are pairs already made in second hand stores.
For 3/4 of the price of a new pair I got 3 pairs including some dress shorts
and 2 mucking around at home pairs. Same goes for shoes, $90 new or $8
second hand and some shoe polish. I draw a line at gruts and socks and some
gear I need for work.

Our microwave stuffed up after 10 years service. We did buy a new one but
gave the old one away to a joker who could rig a temporary fix and use it
for a few months. Other used gear has gone the same way to people who can
use it over again.

Plastic bags in shops, no thanks. I will reduce there. If I get bags they
get recycled picking up dog poop. The poop goes under the hedge, the bags go
in the bin.

If something with metal parts breaks down and can't be repaired it gets
taken apart and the metal taken to a local scrap dealer on my way to work.

I may sound like a smug preachy *******, thats not my intention if so. I
still pollute the atmosphere with my car and flush stuff down the sewer the
earth probably wishes I didn't. Point being however we can make differences
in small ways, they all add up. A line from a Sting song written 22 years
ago now sums it up for me "forever conditioned to believe that we can't live
here and be happy with less".

rob

"George.com" wrote in message
...


I may sound like a smug preachy *******, thats not my intention if so. I
still pollute the atmosphere with my car and flush stuff down the sewer
the
earth probably wishes I didn't. Point being however we can make
differences
in small ways, they all add up. A line from a Sting song written 22 years
ago now sums it up for me "forever conditioned to believe that we can't
live
here and be happy with less".

rob


Nearly all of Sting's "The dream of Blue Turtles" are thought provoking.

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

My experience of Ryanair is that after you have paid all their extra costs and for one item of hold baggage, a return flight advertised at £0.00 actually removes about £50 to £60 from your wallet.

If there was a complete carbon emission trading system applying, then sensible trade-offs could be made. I think that if you did have to buy the carbon, people might well choose to fly more and imported buy plastic toys less.

Following up to "'Mike'" :

The shop then puts it in a paper bag :-((

You could always say to the shopkeeper : "No thanks, I don't want a bag".
You must take some of the blame yourself.

--
Tim C.

"Tim C." wrote in message
...
Following up to "'Mike'" :

The shop then puts it in a paper bag :-((

You could always say to the shopkeeper : "No thanks, I don't want a bag".
You must take some of the blame yourself.

--
Tim C.

Don't you think I have tried? Only to be told by the shop assistant, "We
have to do that and we have to put the receipt inside the bag to prove you
have purchased it and you have not shop lifted it"

Mike
Who didn't come down in the last shower of rain


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

Following up to "'Mike'" :


Don't you think I have tried? Only to be told by the shop assistant, "We
have to do that and we have to put the receipt inside the bag to prove you
have purchased it and you have not shop lifted it"

I've done it often in the UK, no problem whatsoever.
--
Tim C.

"Tim C." wrote in message
...
Following up to "'Mike'" :


Don't you think I have tried? Only to be told by the shop assistant, "We
have to do that and we have to put the receipt inside the bag to prove you
have purchased it and you have not shop lifted it"

I've done it often in the UK, no problem whatsoever.
--
Tim C.

So have I, but it is not the norm. The norm is as I have stated.

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

On 25 Jan, 00:56, garden-addicted
wrote:
I would like to hear people opinion on the following.

You are entirely right and the solutions are with each of us, each
individuals doing what we can.

I'm off to France tomorrow, I'll travel by train for 14 hours. When I
go to the supermarket and local shops, I take a huge basket with me and
don't use any plastic bags. In clothes/records/etc. shops, I put the
goods straight into my huge shoulder bag and ask not to have a plastic
bag. I keep the receipts. I've asked for the last 2 years to friends
and family not to give plastic rubbish to our kids for xmas and
birthdays. In many cases we never got many as I have always moaned
about them. We are well known for recycling. All our white goods, until
last year, were hired - we have the oldest tv in the world, which we
keep repairing. We just finished bying our washing machine from Radio
Rentals. We bought a cooker 10 years ago, a huge affair with 6 rings
and I can bake 10 pizzas in there, very costly but guaranteed a life
time. I have just finished paying for it. All furnitures we have are
from second hand shops or given to us. The only new stuff are the
matresses, which are all hand made futons (and about 10 years old now).
They're hand made because the sizes are huge as my husband made the bed
frames. The only new stuff are the computers, which we recycle via
Emerge recycling, after having been in our office for a couple of
years. My son just built a very powerful computer out of old bits, and
some new bits, but that mega computer costed him £300 approx. The
computer world is making money out of our ignorance too.

If our attitude is to save money, many of us are saving money for the
long run, not for a quick fix. I have never expected anything to be
cheap. I have had this argument with my husband many times when he
finds something cheap and thinks it's a bargain. I hate bargains. I
know that it will break and that we will have no other choice but to
throw away. The cheap culture is our biggest problem - cheap sofas,
cheap white goods, when what we have is ok. Fashion is our biggest
enemy to. I will never forget when I first walk into TK Max. I just
couldn't beleive there was so many clothes at such a cheap price. The
temptation to buy on impulse is there. It's so so sad. Same with cars.
It is entirely up to us to refuse to buy this goods. It's up to us to
teach our kids that we don't need it.

I've been brought up by two elderly people, my grand parents, and I
think they have taught me to recycle 35 years ago without me noticing.
And I do the same with my own family now without putting the pressure.
My kids have never been demanding for anything. Never went bizzerk on
Reebock or Adidas. They don't like sport much in any cases. The people
you surround yourself with are very important too. I make friends on
the basis of their kindness and intelligence - kindness to nature's
future and intelligent way of living )

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan 2007 03:34:49 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:


If our attitude is to save money, many of us are saving money for the
long run, not for a quick fix. I have never expected anything to be
cheap. I have had this argument with my husband many times when he
finds something cheap and thinks it's a bargain. I hate bargains. I
know that it will break and that we will have no other choice but to
throw away.

Lidl and Aldi electrical goods have a three year guarantee and seem to be
the
same quality as more expensive stuff.
In a Consumer test the two best ABMs were EUR220 and EUR 30.
Price doesn't necessarily mean quality.

Those of us who have lived in NL too long are constantly looking for
bargains
and finding them. We rarely, if ever pay, the RRP. Almost everything we
own was
a bargain including our 20 year old Sony TV , which was cheap because it
had a
small blemish on the screen, but came with a full guarantee. We took it
back to
the Sony importer who exchanged it for one without any defects. Most of
our
white goods are "last years models". Who cares about the current fashion,
when
they last 20 years? BCC rules!
--

Martin

If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

Following up to "'Mike'" :

"Tim C." wrote in message
.. .
Following up to "'Mike'" :


Don't you think I have tried? Only to be told by the shop assistant, "We
have to do that and we have to put the receipt inside the bag to prove you
have purchased it and you have not shop lifted it"

I've done it often in the UK, no problem whatsoever.
--
Tim C.

So have I, but it is not the norm. The norm is as I have stated.

"your mileage might vary", as they say.
--
Tim C.

On 25/1/07 12:29, in article ,
"Tim C." wrote:

Following up to "'Mike'" :

"Tim C." wrote in message
...
Following up to "'Mike'" :


Don't you think I have tried? Only to be told by the shop assistant, "We
have to do that and we have to put the receipt inside the bag to prove you
have purchased it and you have not shop lifted it"

I've done it often in the UK, no problem whatsoever.
--
Tim C.

So have I, but it is not the norm. The norm is as I have stated.

"your mileage might vary", as they say.

Actually, all you have to do is say "I don't want the bag, thank you" and
take the receipt which is proof of purchase, not the bag. Anyone could have
bags stashed in their pockets if that's all you needed to show you'd
actually paid for goods. My pet peeve is that cling wrap stuff around
bananas and avocados, which already come with their own nature-given
wrapping! Why, in heaven's name do 'they' DO that?!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Following up to "Rupert \(W.Yorkshire\)" :

If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

Perhaps, but probably not a whole lot lore than last year's models.
--
Tim C.