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Old 24-09-2007, 10:40 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Jennifer Sparkes writes:
| The message
| from "Sue" contains these words:
|
| I wondered about bullace but isn't a bullace more of a greeny colour?
| (outside I mean). I am just about to jam them now anyway.
|
| IIRC this came up this time last year and surprised me.
|
| If you look at Bullace in Google Images they show both colours ...

That would figure. Clapham, Tutin and Warberg says that they are usually
blue-black or purple - with the implication that they sometimes aren't.
As they are ancestral to all modern plums (including greengages etc.), it
isn't surprising if they have a similar range of colours.


Ours are green for a long time - then suddenly turn purple - almost black.
Interestingly they do this even if they're picked while green. Sometimes
they drop off while green and I can't bear to throw them away, that's how I
know.

Mary


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



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Old 24-09-2007, 10:42 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...


... I would pick them as and when
convenient - traditionally, they were left until the first frost,
but that isn't essential.


If you pick them during a frost there's the advantage that your hands will
be so numb you won't feel the thorns.

The disadvantage is that blood gets everywhere :- )

Mary


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



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Old 24-09-2007, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Might damsons trees in a hedgerow have the odd thorn or two? This morning we
picked what we think are fruits -too -big to- be -sloes but there were a few
long thorns on some of the branches. I plan to jam them but if they are
sloes they may not yet be sweet enough so they may have to be "ginned"
instead!
I made a small sample of jam from what I believed to be wild damsons, and found it had a sufficient hint of sloe-bitterness that I did not wish to eat it. I suggest making a small sample and tasting it before you make 10kg.

I have a suspicion that sloes and wild damsons tend to interbreed, resulting in a range of things with intermediate levels of thorniness and bitterness. So it is possible that not everything I picked was 100% damson.
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Old 24-09-2007, 04:25 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


In article ,
echinosum writes:
|
| I made a small sample of jam from what I believed to be wild damsons,
| and found it had a sufficient hint of sloe-bitterness that I did not
| wish to eat it. I suggest making a small sample and tasting it before
| you make 10kg.

Well, the damson jam I made from Farleigh damsons has quite a hint.

| I have a suspicion that sloes and wild damsons tend to interbreed,
| resulting in a range of things with intermediate levels of thorniness
| and bitterness. So it is possible that not everything I picked was 100%
| damson.

Implausible. Different chromosome numbers. Wild damsons (bullaces)
do vary in thorniness and colour, and almost certainly size and flavour.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 24-09-2007, 10:20 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Sue Sue is offline
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)

Great minds think alike!

I made a tiny jam sample this very morning. Presence of astringency
confirmed suspicions that the "damsons" are indeed sloes.

I now have six little jars of sloe cheese! Sampled it with sausages
tonight...delicious!

-- Sue W.
Derby, England.

Don't try to email me using "REPLY" as the email address is NoSpam. Our
email address is "thewoodies2 at ntlworld dot com"


"echinosum" wrote in message
...

Sue;749515 Wrote:
Might damsons trees in a hedgerow have the odd thorn or two? This
morning we
picked what we think are fruits -too -big to- be -sloes but there were
a few
long thorns on some of the branches. I plan to jam them but if they are

sloes they may not yet be sweet enough so they may have to be "ginned"

instead!

I made a small sample of jam from what I believed to be wild damsons,
and found it had a sufficient hint of sloe-bitterness that I did not
wish to eat it. I suggest making a small sample and tasting it before
you make 10kg.

I have a suspicion that sloes and wild damsons tend to interbreed,
resulting in a range of things with intermediate levels of thorniness
and bitterness. So it is possible that not everything I picked was 100%
damson.




--
echinosum





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Old 25-09-2007, 10:33 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


In article ,
"Sue" writes:
| Great minds think alike!
|
| I made a tiny jam sample this very morning. Presence of astringency
| confirmed suspicions that the "damsons" are indeed sloes.
|
| I now have six little jars of sloe cheese! Sampled it with sausages
| tonight...delicious!

Er, no. If there is merely a presence of astringency, then they are
almost certainly damsons - they are usually somewhat astringent.
Sloe cheese would be SO astringent that even I might baulk at it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 25-09-2007, 11:11 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Sue Sue is offline
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)



--

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Sue" writes:
| Great minds think alike!
|
| I made a tiny jam sample this very morning. Presence of astringency
| confirmed suspicions that the "damsons" are indeed sloes.
|
| I now have six little jars of sloe cheese! Sampled it with sausages
| tonight...delicious!

Er, no. If there is merely a presence of astringency, then they are
almost certainly damsons - they are usually somewhat astringent.
Sloe cheese would be SO astringent that even I might baulk at it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


OK. The plot, like the jam, thickens.

I have never noticed astringency in home-made damson jam. Must be my taste
buds.

And can anyone explain the thorns for me if they were in fact damsons?

Sue W.


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Old 25-09-2007, 11:45 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


In article ,
"Sue" writes:
|
| Er, no. If there is merely a presence of astringency, then they are
| almost certainly damsons - they are usually somewhat astringent.
| Sloe cheese would be SO astringent that even I might baulk at it.
|
| OK. The plot, like the jam, thickens.
|
| I have never noticed astringency in home-made damson jam. Must be my taste
| buds.

Or your damsons. They vary, both with variety and ripeness.

| And can anyone explain the thorns for me if they were in fact damsons?

Sigh, yes. As I posted. Bullaces (wild damsons) sometimes have thorns;
it is quite likely that a few cultivated varieties do, too. The same
applies to apples.

The point with both is that the original species is usually a thorny
shrub; it has been bred to be a thornless tree, but older and less
highly bred varieties may have some characteristics of the original.
And seedlings may revert, or hybridise with the wild form (both of
which are still common over all of Europe).

Sloes are a different species, one of the two ancestors of the plum.
Crab apples are the same species as domestic apples.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 25-09-2007, 12:05 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)

In reply to Nick Maclaren ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

In article ,
"Sue" writes:

Er, no. If there is merely a presence of astringency, then they
are almost certainly damsons - they are usually somewhat
astringent. Sloe cheese would be SO astringent that even I might
baulk at it.

OK. The plot, like the jam, thickens.

I have never noticed astringency in home-made damson jam. Must be
my taste buds.


Or your damsons. They vary, both with variety and ripeness.

And can anyone explain the thorns for me if they were in fact
damsons?


Sigh, yes. As I posted. Bullaces (wild damsons) sometimes have
thorns; it is quite likely that a few cultivated varieties do, too.
The same applies to apples.

The point with both is that the original species is usually a thorny
shrub; it has been bred to be a thornless tree, but older and less
highly bred varieties may have some characteristics of the original.
And seedlings may revert, or hybridise with the wild form (both of
which are still common over all of Europe).

Sloes are a different species, one of the two ancestors of the plum.
Crab apples are the same species as domestic apples.

I think I'm right in saying that one can easily tell the difference just by
biting into one. No?


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Old 25-09-2007, 12:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


In article ,
"Uncle Marvo" writes:
|
| Sloes are a different species, one of the two ancestors of the plum.
| Crab apples are the same species as domestic apples.
|
| I think I'm right in saying that one can easily tell the difference just by
| biting into one. No?

In general, yes. You may have a job telling some sloes from some
bullaces and some crab apples from some cider apples, but normally
that is enough to distinguish them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


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Old 25-09-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Maclaren View Post
Crab apples are the same species as domestic apples.
Only some are, eg John Downie. But many are not, in particular the European wild crab is not. Many Malus species can be called crab apples, and we cultivate several of those species, eg, M floribunda, M sieboldii, and a number of crosses, eg M x robusta, as crabs. It used to be thought that the domestic apple was descended from Malus sylvestris, the European wild crab apple, and many of the crabs we grow are cultivars or crosses of M sylvestris. But it is now known the cultivated apple is derived the rare central Asian species Malus sieversii found growing in eastern Kazakhstan and adjacent areas of China.
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Old 25-09-2007, 11:11 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sloes/damsons (slightly OT)


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...


They have that effect - now join the very select club of people who like
to eat sloes raw :-)


Me too.
They are, however, much better after 3 months soaking in gin.

Duncan


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