I have just carried out an experiment with cuttings of Salvia 'Mystic
Spires' made 10, 11 and 12 days ago. The cuttings were all treated in the
same way in a heated propagator at 27C and 100% humidity inside a light box.
Of the 10 day old cuttings not a single one showed any root. Of the 11 day
cuttings 6 out of 8 showed some root. Of the 12 day old cuttings 4 out of 6
showed root, and on average it was a good bit longer than the 11 day
cuttings. Am I right in assuming that cuttings spend a long time in
preparation, and then the roots themselves are produced fairly quickly at
the end. I also put a number of cuttings in water, but after 12 days none
showed any sign of root.

"Peter Sutton" wrote in message
...
I have just carried out an experiment with cuttings of Salvia 'Mystic
Spires' made 10, 11 and 12 days ago. The cuttings were all treated in the
same way in a heated propagator at 27C and 100% humidity inside a light
box.
Of the 10 day old cuttings not a single one showed any root. Of the 11 day
cuttings 6 out of 8 showed some root. Of the 12 day old cuttings 4 out of
6
showed root, and on average it was a good bit longer than the 11 day
cuttings. Am I right in assuming that cuttings spend a long time in
preparation, and then the roots themselves are produced fairly quickly at
the end. I also put a number of cuttings in water, but after 12 days none
showed any sign of root.



does it need to be a cutting,

There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.

In article , BIC says...

"Peter Sutton" wrote in message
...
I have just carried out an experiment with cuttings of Salvia 'Mystic
Spires' made 10, 11 and 12 days ago. The cuttings were all treated in the
same way in a heated propagator at 27C and 100% humidity inside a light
box.
Of the 10 day old cuttings not a single one showed any root. Of the 11 day
cuttings 6 out of 8 showed some root. Of the 12 day old cuttings 4 out of
6
showed root, and on average it was a good bit longer than the 11 day
cuttings. Am I right in assuming that cuttings spend a long time in
preparation, and then the roots themselves are produced fairly quickly at
the end. I also put a number of cuttings in water, but after 12 days none
showed any sign of root.



does it need to be a cutting,

There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.



'twas I. The post is thriving! I'll post a picture some time.
--
David in Normandy

"BIC" wrote in message
...

"Peter Sutton" wrote in message
...
I have just carried out an experiment with cuttings of Salvia 'Mystic
Spires' made 10, 11 and 12 days ago. The cuttings were all treated in
the
same way in a heated propagator at 27C and 100% humidity inside a light
box.
Of the 10 day old cuttings not a single one showed any root. Of the 11
day
cuttings 6 out of 8 showed some root. Of the 12 day old cuttings 4 out
of
6
showed root, and on average it was a good bit longer than the 11 day
cuttings. Am I right in assuming that cuttings spend a long time in
preparation, and then the roots themselves are produced fairly quickly
at
the end. I also put a number of cuttings in water, but after 12 days
none
showed any sign of root.



does it need to be a cutting,

There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk
and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number
on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.

Its a huge subject, and I was really only questioning the speed at which
roots form. I had always assumed that they grew at a linear rate, ie after
10 days the roots were twice as long as after 5 days. But my recent
observation implies that for 10 days nothing appears to happen, then two
inch roots can suddenly grow in only two or three days.

In article , Peter Sutton
says...

Its a huge subject, and I was really only questioning the speed at which
roots form. I had always assumed that they grew at a linear rate, ie after
10 days the roots were twice as long as after 5 days. But my recent
observation implies that for 10 days nothing appears to happen, then two
inch roots can suddenly grow in only two or three days.




It can vary enormously. The Mrs plants cuttings of Red Robin (Photinia)
not sure of spelling. We've lifted ones that look fine a year after
planting as cuttings and they have had no roots at all! However, when
they suddenly start to spurt it is a sure sign they have finally put
roots out.
--
David in Normandy

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...
In article , Peter Sutton
says...

Its a huge subject, and I was really only questioning the speed at which
roots form. I had always assumed that they grew at a linear rate, ie
after
10 days the roots were twice as long as after 5 days. But my recent
observation implies that for 10 days nothing appears to happen, then two
inch roots can suddenly grow in only two or three days.




It can vary enormously. The Mrs plants cuttings of Red Robin (Photinia)
not sure of spelling. We've lifted ones that look fine a year after
planting as cuttings and they have had no roots at all! However, when
they suddenly start to spurt it is a sure sign they have finally put
roots out.
--
David in Normandy

Thanks David - going back to your Bay tree, I am sure you are aware that in
the Minoan civilisation they used tree trunks as pillars but used them
upside down to prevent them rooting. I understand that even that is not
foolproof. Some things can still grow upside down, even though they have to
reverse the flow of the capilliaries.

Quite often, the speed of the roots exceeds that of top growth and
that is true in seedlings as well as cuttings. The reason for the
sudden appearance or roots after a period of apparent non-activity is
because the cut end is forming a callus from which the roots can
develop. The callus seals the stem ends preventing bacterial and/or
fungal infection and in the very first instance, is merely a mass of
rapidly dividing, undifferentiated cells.

Auxins (hormones) produced by the cutting trigger these cells into
forming roots when sufficient callousing has taken place. The
cutting's survival depends upon root formation and once the 'root
buds' have formed within the callous, rapid root growth ensues. There
are exceptions and callousing with subsequent root formation can be a
very protracted affair taking several to many months, especially with
certain evergreens. Hardwood cuttings taken in early winter, will also
develop a basal callous relatively slowly and roots may not emerge
until after spring growth has commenced.

Some plants develop adventitious roots (roots along the stems or at
the leaf nodes) and the 'root buds' for these are already present. In
such plants, stem-end callousing may or may not take place and serves
mainly to prevent infection at the cut stem ends. Roots develop along
the stem length or at the nodes if the cutting is given the correct
treatment. Roots may also form subsequently at the calloused end, but
adventitious roots commence growth almost immediately and are not
reliant upon stem end callousing.

In article , Peter Sutton
writes

Its a huge subject, and I was really only questioning the speed at which
roots form. I had always assumed that they grew at a linear rate, ie after
10 days the roots were twice as long as after 5 days. But my recent
observation implies that for 10 days nothing appears to happen, then two
inch roots can suddenly grow in only two or three days.




I would suspect (please note I am a non-technical person!) that for the
first few days the cutting can use the salts etc from the sap in the
actual stem and then the cells at the base click over to root
production.
I thought this was what happened as sometimes you can keep a cuttings
going for quite a while especially if long, however in the end the
cutting never produces roots and then dies.
So I assumed it was getting enough sustenance as it were, to exist for
so long.
Like trees and shrubs that get uprooted but flower or come into leaf
before dying eventually.
On the other hand this probably labels me as a right nitwit in the
propagating department
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article . com,
Dave Poole writes:

Most interesting.

| Some plants develop adventitious roots (roots along the stems or at
| the leaf nodes) and the 'root buds' for these are already present.

I suspect that a few plants have stem cells (that is cells that are
part of the stem) with the potential to form root buds at any point.
My guess is that several aquatic plants are like that, because some
don't seem to have a clear distinction between roots and stems.

But that is pure guesswork.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 5/11/07 11:55, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article . com,
Dave Poole writes:

Most interesting.

| Some plants develop adventitious roots (roots along the stems or at
| the leaf nodes) and the 'root buds' for these are already present.

I suspect that a few plants have stem cells (that is cells that are
part of the stem) with the potential to form root buds at any point.
My guess is that several aquatic plants are like that, because some
don't seem to have a clear distinction between roots and stems.

But that is pure guesswork.


Interesting to read this Nick, because I've just read a book by Peter Kerr
who used to have a small orange and lemon farm in Majorca. He writes that
local farmers told him that if you cut a twig off a lemon tree and shoved it
in the ground upside down, it would root from the leaf nodes. He wasn't at
all sure if he was having his leg pulled but he tried it and said that for
months, nothing happened. Then other people bought the house in whose garden
he'd done it. A few months more and later, he went back and saw a row of
lemon trees there. He had no idea if they were 'his' or whether the new
owners had simply planted new saplings. He doesn't seem to have repeated
the experiment, unfortunately! If anyone living in a nice, sunny, warm
country reads this and has a lemon tree, please try it and let us know!


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...


There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk
and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number
on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.



'twas I. The post is thriving! I'll post a picture some time.



I'd be very interested in seeing that!

Mary

In article , Mary Fisher
says...

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...


There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk
and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number
on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.



'twas I. The post is thriving! I'll post a picture some time.



I'd be very interested in seeing that!

Mary




Photo now posted:

(I've obliterated our address details from the name plate as I don't
like posting too many personal details to the internet)

http://www.avisoft.co.uk/photos/Hpim6093a.jpg

I'd be interested to know if the post has actually put out roots, but
I'm not going to dig it up to find out!
--
David in Normandy

On 8/11/07 15:07, in article ,
"David in Normandy" wrote:

In article , Mary Fisher
says...

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...


There was a good post, a few months back on here, where a poster told the
story about a bay tree he removed from his garden. He cut the main trunk
and
left it as a pole/post in the garage. If I recall his story, a year or so
later he planed it and turned it into a post to put a house name/number
on.
After hammering it into the ground, a few week later it was sprouting new
growth...........some cutting that.



'twas I. The post is thriving! I'll post a picture some time.



I'd be very interested in seeing that!

Mary




Photo now posted:

(I've obliterated our address details from the name plate as I don't
like posting too many personal details to the internet)

http://www.avisoft.co.uk/photos/Hpim6093a.jpg

I'd be interested to know if the post has actually put out roots, but
I'm not going to dig it up to find out!

Wonderful photo - just shows what willpower can do for you. ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article , Sacha
writes


Wonderful photo - just shows what willpower can do for you. ;-)



Oh yeah right, sod's law. Why won't those little cuttings that you treat
really well, giving them undying love and attention and just the right
conditions as per the Book, do the same?
Perhaps they should be dealt with a bit harsher, show who's Boss in the
garden sort of thing

I had some cuttings last year of rarish conifers and two variegated
shrubs. |They didn't die, put on growth and started to come into leaf,
but would they develop roots? Would they heck!!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 8/11/07 19:29, in article , "Janet Tweedy"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes


Wonderful photo - just shows what willpower can do for you. ;-)



Oh yeah right, sod's law. Why won't those little cuttings that you treat
really well, giving them undying love and attention and just the right
conditions as per the Book, do the same?
Perhaps they should be dealt with a bit harsher, show who's Boss in the
garden sort of thing

I had some cuttings last year of rarish conifers and two variegated
shrubs. |They didn't die, put on growth and started to come into leaf,
but would they develop roots? Would they heck!!

Don't worry - one of these days I'll send you some bits of Rhamnus and let
you work your magic on those brutes!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'