On 4/12/07 08:50, in article ,
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

In article ,
says...
Huh. We have the septic tank AND the water rates. Well, I hope they'll
drop now we've put in a borehole for the nursery! ;-)
--

Should do, you are sw water as well, we have a septic tank and a well, I
think our water bill averages about £10 per quarter, most of that is the
enviromental charge, but I do have a mains connection and use a small
amount of their water each year in the mist unit (pressure is more
reliable) I know that if the pipe work on the well (or bore hole) is
above what they term domestic then they come along and stick a meter on
that! We happily are not in that situation :~)

The borehole is for the nursery use only, the house is still on the mains.
Until we put the borehole in, we were paying about £5,000 per year for
water. It cost around £8k to put in, so it won't take long to pay for
itself - unless we have another terrible summer! ;-)
Currently SWW are digging up the lanes round here to put in new water pipes
and the confusion traffic-wise is terrible. They started at the beginning
of October and said it would take 40 days - they hope to be finished by
Christmas.........
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 4/12/07 00:16, in article , "Pete
Stockdale" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


Huh. We have the septic tank AND the water rates. Well, I hope they'll
drop now we've put in a borehole for the nursery! ;-)



Oh - please be careful with location of your facilities !
We have a sceptical tank but prefer to rely on the water from above to
fulfil our plant water needs.
Our glasshouse roof collects more water than we could ever use for the
nursery.
Regards
Pete
Nanneys Bridge Nursery
www.thecanalshop.com


Unfortunately, rain water alone won't do it for three poly tunnels and four
greenhouses of large size. We have quite an area of open ground which
nature waters for us from time to time. The septic tanks were - presumably
- put in when the house was built in 1851 and another was put in when the
nursery grew to the point of needing loos for customers.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...




I've lived with septic tanks (if you get my meaning!) for the last 35
years. At our last house, we had it emptied about every three years,
which
seemed to be adequate until the day it started overflowing following a
torrential downpour, which just happened to coincide with higher than
normal use of baths, etc. The clear-up was not pleasant and involved
some
expensive alterations. I've gone for annual emptying ever since, which
has
been well worth the cost, in my view. I now have a standing order with
the
local council and don't even have to remember to ask for it to be
emptied.

A daughter lives on a Welsh mountain with a septic tank, they've been
there
for at least twelve years and have never had the tank emptied. I thought
the
system developed bacteria which dealt with solids and they drained away
harmlessly.

Hers is an organic farm and she is scrupulous about not allowing anything
which would be hostile to the bacteria down the drain. She uses special
dishwasher tablets, laundry and other preparations. There are two adults
and
a small child so baths are frequent and laundry is too - she only uses
washable nappies.

When we go we live in our tiny caravan and have to use similar
bacteria-friendly products if we empty into the tank - which we do. When
I
use conventional washing up liquid for dishes the waste is poured into a
ditch.

I daren't do anything else!

Mary



Its certainly the case that a good tank is better than mains drainage and
won't cost you as much!
Modern toilet cleaners & biological washing powders will cause tanks to
not work as well and to need emptying more often. Synthetic cloth fibres
also build up but more slowly.
Our tank has been emptied once in the last 150 years! but was absolutley
solid and took a lot of effort to get it done (no smell at all)

And jolly useful stuff for the garden I suspect :-=)

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...




I've lived with septic tanks (if you get my meaning!) for the last 35
years. At our last house, we had it emptied about every three years,
which seemed to be adequate until the day it started overflowing
following a torrential downpour, which just happened to coincide with
higher than normal use of baths, etc. The clear-up was not pleasant and
involved some expensive alterations. I've gone for annual emptying ever
since, which has been well worth the cost, in my view. I now have a
standing order with the local council and don't even have to remember to
ask for it to be emptied.

A daughter lives on a Welsh mountain with a septic tank, they've been
there for at least twelve years and have never had the tank emptied. I
thought the system developed bacteria which dealt with solids and they
drained away harmlessly.

Hers is an organic farm and she is scrupulous about not allowing anything
which would be hostile to the bacteria down the drain. She uses special
dishwasher tablets, laundry and other preparations. There are two adults
and a small child so baths are frequent and laundry is too - she only uses
washable nappies.

I have also not needed to empty mine in the 15 years I have been in my house
and nor did I in the time I lived on a Welsh mountain with a very similar
set up. The only thing that goes into the tank is the toilet waste, all
other waste pipes and rainwater is fed direct to a soak away, no bleach or
other anti bacterial chemicals are allowed in the toilet and the proper
functioning of the tanks drains and soak away has meant there has been no
need to empty anything.
Anything that does not do that is a cesspit rather than a septic tank in my
opinion and they need emptying when they are full which of course depends on
usage.

--
Chris
Ignoti nulla cupido

In article ,
says...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...




I've lived with septic tanks (if you get my meaning!) for the last 35
years. At our last house, we had it emptied about every three years,
which
seemed to be adequate until the day it started overflowing following a
torrential downpour, which just happened to coincide with higher than
normal use of baths, etc. The clear-up was not pleasant and involved
some
expensive alterations. I've gone for annual emptying ever since, which
has
been well worth the cost, in my view. I now have a standing order with
the
local council and don't even have to remember to ask for it to be
emptied.

A daughter lives on a Welsh mountain with a septic tank, they've been
there
for at least twelve years and have never had the tank emptied. I thought
the
system developed bacteria which dealt with solids and they drained away
harmlessly.

Hers is an organic farm and she is scrupulous about not allowing anything
which would be hostile to the bacteria down the drain. She uses special
dishwasher tablets, laundry and other preparations. There are two adults
and
a small child so baths are frequent and laundry is too - she only uses
washable nappies.

When we go we live in our tiny caravan and have to use similar
bacteria-friendly products if we empty into the tank - which we do. When
I
use conventional washing up liquid for dishes the waste is poured into a
ditch.

I daren't do anything else!

Mary

No sadly we had to use a high pressure water jet to cut it up and a
sludge pump to remove it, I tried to dig it by hand but the spade would
not penetrate the matted synthetic fibres, just bounced off.
We felt quite pleased with ourselves finding it as various owners since
1915 had looked, but no one had been able to find it. not surprising
really I had to go down 15' before I got there! It was dating the rubbish
and infill on the top of it that gave us the approx date it was last
looked at.
Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...


....


No sadly we had to use a high pressure water jet to cut it up and a
sludge pump to remove it, I tried to dig it by hand but the spade would
not penetrate the matted synthetic fibres, just bounced off.

That's something I've never thought about. I doubt that Ann or the previous
owner of their 'Seppo' would have used synthetic fibres.

We felt quite pleased with ourselves finding it as various owners since
1915 had looked, but no one had been able to find it. not surprising
really I had to go down 15' before I got there!

That's dedication!

It was dating the rubbish
and infill on the top of it that gave us the approx date it was last
looked at.

And that's fascinating, real archaeology!

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think I'd choose an old one. Spouse would want to build his own.

Mary

In article ,
says...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...


...


No sadly we had to use a high pressure water jet to cut it up and a
sludge pump to remove it, I tried to dig it by hand but the spade would
not penetrate the matted synthetic fibres, just bounced off.

That's something I've never thought about. I doubt that Ann or the previous
owner of their 'Seppo' would have used synthetic fibres.

We felt quite pleased with ourselves finding it as various owners since
1915 had looked, but no one had been able to find it. not surprising
really I had to go down 15' before I got there!

That's dedication!

It was dating the rubbish
and infill on the top of it that gave us the approx date it was last
looked at.

And that's fascinating, real archaeology!

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think I'd choose an old one. Spouse would want to build his own.

Mary



Apparently before the days of fiberglass ones, they were built of brick
and it was standard practice to use very weak morter for the base and
once the building inspecter had been, knock a load of bricks out!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

On 4/12/07 12:33, in article ,
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:
snip No sadly we had to use a high pressure water jet to cut it up and a
sludge pump to remove it, I tried to dig it by hand but the spade would
not penetrate the matted synthetic fibres, just bounced off.
We felt quite pleased with ourselves finding it as various owners since
1915 had looked, but no one had been able to find it. not surprising
really I had to go down 15' before I got there! It was dating the rubbish
and infill on the top of it that gave us the approx date it was last
looked at.
Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think there might be quite a lot in that last sentence, Charlie. I'm a
bit concerned that the OP is hearing about people who haven't touched a tank
in 15 years if his house's previous owners are on a yearly contract! I
wonder if a specialist surveyor exists for such things?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Sacha" wrote in message
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think there might be quite a lot in that last sentence, Charlie. I'm a
bit concerned that the OP is hearing about people who haven't touched a
tank
in 15 years if his house's previous owners are on a yearly contract! I
wonder if a specialist surveyor exists for such things?

But many of the posters have made the distinction that it depends on the
type of tank he has.

I know that here in Australia, if you have one of the modern ones which will
pump out onto the garden, the contract is for attention every 3 months. Not
for pumping out but for checks on the water quality.

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...


...


No sadly we had to use a high pressure water jet to cut it up and a
sludge pump to remove it, I tried to dig it by hand but the spade would
not penetrate the matted synthetic fibres, just bounced off.

That's something I've never thought about. I doubt that Ann or the
previous
owner of their 'Seppo' would have used synthetic fibres.

We felt quite pleased with ourselves finding it as various owners since
1915 had looked, but no one had been able to find it. not surprising
really I had to go down 15' before I got there!

That's dedication!

It was dating the rubbish
and infill on the top of it that gave us the approx date it was last
looked at.

And that's fascinating, real archaeology!

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think I'd choose an old one. Spouse would want to build his own.

Mary



Apparently before the days of fiberglass ones, they were built of brick
and it was standard practice to use very weak morter for the base and
once the building inspecter had been, knock a load of bricks out!

I've no idea what Ann's is made from, could be brick, but I doubt that it
has artificial openings :-)

The Welsh just aren't like that!

....

.... Are they?

:-)

Spouse would want his to be perfect. It's very hard to live up to :-)

Mary
Lapageria rosea

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Sacha" wrote in message
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think there might be quite a lot in that last sentence, Charlie. I'm a
bit concerned that the OP is hearing about people who haven't touched a
tank
in 15 years

If it's working and not causing any problems why should it be interfered
with?

Those who have such working installations are confident that they don't need
interference for any reason.

Mary

On 4 Dec, 10:18, "Cerumen" wrote:

Anything that does not do that is a cesspit rather than a septic tank in my
opinion and they need emptying when they are full which of course depends on
usage.

It was my experience in Lincolnshire before mains sewage that a
properly made septic tank, brick built and cement lined, will work
without needing any significant attention at all. And I agree that
the design is difficult - do you include the grey water to keep the
working volumes up, or do you restrict it to blackwater and rainwater?

Ten year intervals for sludge removal springs into my memory. And,
because of the placement of the tank, a sucker tanker was never an
option. Bucket and barrow, that's the stuff.

A proper septic tank is IME quite large, and needs a substantial space
for a soakaway. The small plastic round type seem to have a different
bacterial mechanism, and really do have to be sucked out quite often.
I think this is the main reason they are so near the house - for easy
access from the road.

As to cleaning costs, I am not surprised at £120. At one time sucker
tankers would be emptied on adjacent farm land, but now licences are
needed for disposal and special licenced dumps for the stuff to be
taken to. HSE gone mad. Don't know what the bucket and barrow
brigade now do.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:48:46 -0800 (PST), wrote:

do you include the grey water to keep the working volumes up, or do you
restrict it to blackwater and rainwater?

Rainwater is a no, no. The volumes of even a small shower on a decent
sized roof will flush a septic tank through far to quickly...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On 4/12/07 20:05, in article
, "FarmI"
ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Sacha" wrote in message
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think there might be quite a lot in that last sentence, Charlie. I'm a
bit concerned that the OP is hearing about people who haven't touched a
tank
in 15 years if his house's previous owners are on a yearly contract! I
wonder if a specialist surveyor exists for such things?

But many of the posters have made the distinction that it depends on the
type of tank he has.

Not all have done so, though and if the poor chap thinks he can wait 15
years..........

I know that here in Australia, if you have one of the modern ones which will
pump out onto the garden, the contract is for attention every 3 months. Not
for pumping out but for checks on the water quality.



Excellent design but probably not what the OP has.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 4/12/07 20:32, in article ,
"Mary Fisher" wrote:


"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Sacha" wrote in message
"Charlie Pridham" wrote:

Most people I know with modern ones have a yearly contract.

I think there might be quite a lot in that last sentence, Charlie. I'm a
bit concerned that the OP is hearing about people who haven't touched a
tank
in 15 years

If it's working and not causing any problems why should it be interfered
with?

Those who have such working installations are confident that they don't need
interference for any reason.

Mary


The OP has said the previous owners told him it was emptied annually. That
doesn't even begin to imply that it needs no interference. How *often* is
his question.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'