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Mimi De Moratti 20-04-2003 06:10 PM

Humane rat control
 
My house is surrounded by sheep/cows and wooden buildings storing hay etc. My
house is also built of wood and I have two sheds in the garden. Rats nested
in the compost heap which I have now cleared, but they are beginning to get
out of control, hiding in nooks and crannies. My birdfeeders have special
'seed catchers' underneath to help with spillage problems. I have tried
everything to discourage the rats but they are happy here! I don't want to
poison them because I imagine it is a slow and painful death (am I right?).
And I don't want to harm the shrews and my badger who visits me every night.
My landlord's Jack Russell spends a lot of time here and is interested in the
rats but is not keeping them at bay. I am anxious about health problems for
my vast bird population, and the saftey of their nests. Time is running out
and I really do need to find a solution to this problem. Has anyone any
experience of humane rat control? I know this problem has been tackled
before, but before anyone refers me to FAQs, rats are not covered! I did use
the search facility on the FAQs page and tried to get the Pests page, but the
link doesn't work.


Bart Bailey 20-04-2003 06:45 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:51:33 +0100, Mimi De Moratti
wrote:

My house is surrounded by sheep/cows and wooden buildings storing hay etc. My
house is also built of wood and I have two sheds in the garden. Rats nested
in the compost heap which I have now cleared, but they are beginning to get
out of control, hiding in nooks and crannies. My birdfeeders have special
'seed catchers' underneath to help with spillage problems. I have tried
everything to discourage the rats but they are happy here! I don't want to
poison them because I imagine it is a slow and painful death (am I right?).
And I don't want to harm the shrews and my badger who visits me every night.
My landlord's Jack Russell spends a lot of time here and is interested in the
rats but is not keeping them at bay. I am anxious about health problems for
my vast bird population, and the saftey of their nests. Time is running out
and I really do need to find a solution to this problem. Has anyone any
experience of humane rat control? I know this problem has been tackled
before, but before anyone refers me to FAQs, rats are not covered! I did use
the search facility on the FAQs page and tried to get the Pests page, but the
link doesn't work.


Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
IOW: Get some of those cat plagued urban gardeners,
to export their pesky feline visitors to your environs,
for mutual relief.

Bart

Mimi De Moratti 20-04-2003 07:32 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:41:08 +0100, Bart Bailey wrote
(in message ):

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:51:33 +0100, Mimi De Moratti
wrote:

My house is surrounded by sheep/cows and wooden buildings storing hay etc.
My
house is also built of wood and I have two sheds in the garden. Rats
nested
in the compost heap which I have now cleared, but they are beginning to
get
out of control


Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
IOW: Get some of those cat plagued urban gardeners,
to export their pesky feline visitors to your environs,
for mutual relief.

Bart


Forgive me if this appears twice - my newsreader is misbehaving!

Actually I don't like cats and have spent the past couple of years actively
discouraging them from my garden, quite successfully, in fact. If we could
discriminate about who they do and don't they murder it would, I suppose, be
a help. But there are several ferrals who roam at night and they have not
done the job!


Peter Crosland 20-04-2003 07:32 PM

Humane rat control
 
The Environmental Health Department of your local Council will probably deal
with the problem free of charge. It is naive to think that you can deal with
the problem by capture and relocation which in any case would be illegal.
Rats carry a wide variety of diseases that affect humans as well as
livestock. You need to get the problem dealt with without delay.



Malcolm 20-04-2003 07:56 PM

Humane rat control
 

In article , Peter Crosland
writes
The Environmental Health Department of your local Council will probably deal
with the problem free of charge. It is naive to think that you can deal with
the problem by capture and relocation which in any case would be illegal.


Curiously, it would not be illegal to catch and relocate Brown Rats,
though even more curiously it would be if they were Black Rats!

Rats carry a wide variety of diseases that affect humans as well as
livestock. You need to get the problem dealt with without delay.

Hear, hear.

--
Malcolm

Peter Crosland 20-04-2003 10:56 PM

Humane rat control
 
Curiously, it would not be illegal to catch and relocate Brown Rats,
though even more curiously it would be if they were Black Rats!


Can you expand on that? I was led to believe that it applied to both as well
as rabbits and grey squirrels as well.



bnd777 20-04-2003 11:23 PM

Humane rat control
 
Most cats are scared of rats according to the Ratman I know
"Mimi De Moratti" wrote in message
. co.uk...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:41:08 +0100, Bart Bailey wrote
(in message ):

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:51:33 +0100, Mimi De Moratti
wrote:

My house is surrounded by sheep/cows and wooden buildings storing hay

etc.
My
house is also built of wood and I have two sheds in the garden. Rats
nested
in the compost heap which I have now cleared, but they are beginning to
get
out of control, hiding in nooks and crannies. Has anyone any
experience of humane rat control?


Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
IOW: Get some of those cat plagued urban gardeners,
to export their pesky feline visitors to your environs,
for mutual relief.

Bart


Well actually I don't like cats and have mananged over the past 3 years to
discourage them, very successfully in fact. My neighbour has 3 and there

is a
ferral cat who wanders around at night. Obviously they have not done the

job!




Essjay001 21-04-2003 12:21 AM

Humane rat control
 
Mimi De Moratti scribbled:

Well actually I don't like cats and have mananged over the past 3
years to discourage them, very successfully in fact. My neighbour has
3 and there is a ferral cat who wanders around at night. Obviously
they have not done the job!


Which only goes to bolster my argument against cats. What bloody good are
they?



Essjay001 21-04-2003 12:21 AM

Humane rat control
 
Gorgeous George scribbled:


Nonsense. Most of us live quite happily with rats in the neighbourhood
with no trouble at all.

The slaughter of rats is totally unnecessary, you could kill a million
and a million will return, you need to rat proof your vulnerable
areas.

George you might live quite happily with rats but most don't. You are right
there is no reason to slaughter rats. Just kill them.

Ps you didn't answer my email!



Malcolm 21-04-2003 01:32 PM

Humane rat control
 

In article , Peter Crosland
writes
Curiously, it would not be illegal to catch and relocate Brown Rats,
though even more curiously it would be if they were Black Rats!


Can you expand on that? I was led to believe that it applied to both as well
as rabbits and grey squirrels as well.

Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act makes it an offence to
release into the wild various animals and birds that are "not ordinarily
resident" or that are not regular visitors to Britain, all of which are
listed in Schedule 9, Part 1. A small number of plants, including
Japanese Knotweed and Giant Hogweed, which may not be planted in the
wild are listed in Part 2. The purpose of the section is to stop the
establishment or further establishment of non-native species which may
harm native wildlife.

You can find the schedule at http://www.naturenet.net/law/sched9.html

It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats. Perhaps it was never thought necessary as no-one
would be daft enough to want to do it :-))

--
Malcolm

Dave Liquorice 21-04-2003 01:33 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:40:36 +0100, Malcolm wrote:

Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act ...

snip
It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats.


One that covers vermin perhaps?

As you say that act is to preserve the indigenous habitat/species from
imports. Though the rabbit is techincally an import albeit it it has
been here a long time, the Romans introduced it I think.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.




21-04-2003 01:33 PM

Humane rat control
 

"Mimi De Moratti" wrote in message
. co.uk...
My house is surrounded by sheep/cows and wooden buildings storing hay etc.

My
house is also built of wood and I have two sheds in the garden. Rats

nested
in the compost heap which I have now cleared, but they are beginning to

get
out of control, hiding in nooks and crannies. ... Time is running out
and I really do need to find a solution to this problem. Has anyone any
experience of humane rat control?


The local Environmental Health Department will have a Pest Control Officer
who can help, or a local gamekeeper with a gassing licence would probably do
it for a few quid. You won't get rid of rats without getting rid of the
conditions that attract them, but it will give you a while with a reduced
population.

Colin Bignell



Malcolm 21-04-2003 01:33 PM

Humane rat control
 

In article . network,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:40:36 +0100, Malcolm wrote:

Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act ...

snip
It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats.


One that covers vermin perhaps?

No, I don't think so. The Pests Act 1954 puts an obligation on to
occupiers of land to kill rabbits on their land or to prevent them doing
damage, but I don't think it says anything specifically about catching
them and releasing them somewhere else.

As you say that act is to preserve the indigenous habitat/species from
imports. Though the rabbit is techincally an import albeit it it has
been here a long time, the Romans introduced it I think.

No, it was the Normans.

--
Malcolm

Peter Crosland 21-04-2003 01:33 PM

Humane rat control
 
Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act ...
snip
It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats.


One that covers vermin perhaps?

As you say that act is to preserve the indigenous habitat/species from
imports. Though the rabbit is techincally an import albeit it it has
been here a long time, the Romans introduced it I think.


Thanks for that Malcolm and Dave. AFAIK neither the brown rat, rattus
norvgicus, or the black rat, rattus rattus, are native species. The Normans
imported the rabbit in quantity. The Romans were responsible for importing
the edible dormouse, gliss gliss, that has become a major pest in some parts
of the Home Counties.

As for the OP your love of animals needs to be tempered with some common
sense. As an animal lover I deplore cruelty to most species but in the case
of vermin it is necessary to be realistic and accept that they need to be
killed for the greater good. Although rare the diseases spread by rat are
potentially lethal and very unpleasant. Would you like the death of someone
from Weils Disease on your conscience?



Janet Baraclough 21-04-2003 01:33 PM

Humane rat control
 
The message
from Malcolm contains these words:

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats. Perhaps it was never thought necessary as no-one
would be daft enough to want to do it :-))


In the case of rabbits, I think landowners have been known to
trade/capture/release ones infected with myxymatosis and that other
deadly rabbit disease whose name has just eluded me.

Janet.

Dave Liquorice 21-04-2003 03:13 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:35:59 +0100, Malcolm wrote:

No, I don't think so. The Pests Act 1954 puts an obligation on to
occupiers of land to kill rabbits on their land or to prevent them
doing damage, but I don't think it says anything specifically about
catching them and releasing them somewhere else.


Pretty damn sure it is illegal to capture rats, mice etc and release
them. Can't find a statute that says this though, 'cause I can't find
a decent search engine for such a search.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.




Malcolm 21-04-2003 03:59 PM

Humane rat control
 

In article . network,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:35:59 +0100, Malcolm wrote:

No, I don't think so. The Pests Act 1954 puts an obligation on to
occupiers of land to kill rabbits on their land or to prevent them
doing damage, but I don't think it says anything specifically about
catching them and releasing them somewhere else.


Pretty damn sure it is illegal to capture rats, mice etc and release
them. Can't find a statute that says this though, 'cause I can't find
a decent search engine for such a search.

Google is pretty decent, IME.

I'd be most interested if you do come across anything, because I've not
done and am therefore doubtful it has been legislated against.

--
Malcolm

Malcolm 21-04-2003 03:59 PM

Humane rat control
 

In article , Peter Crosland
writes
Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act ...

snip
It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats.


One that covers vermin perhaps?

As you say that act is to preserve the indigenous habitat/species from
imports. Though the rabbit is techincally an import albeit it it has
been here a long time, the Romans introduced it I think.


Thanks for that Malcolm and Dave. AFAIK neither the brown rat, rattus
norvgicus, or the black rat, rattus rattus, are native species.


The brown rat didn't arrive until around 1700, while the Romans brought
the black rat with them. So now you know the answer to the question
"What did the Romans ever do for us?" :-)

The Normans
imported the rabbit in quantity. The Romans were responsible for importing
the edible dormouse, gliss gliss, that has become a major pest in some parts
of the Home Counties.

As for the OP your love of animals needs to be tempered with some common
sense. As an animal lover I deplore cruelty to most species but in the case
of vermin it is necessary to be realistic and accept that they need to be
killed for the greater good. Although rare the diseases spread by rat are
potentially lethal and very unpleasant. Would you like the death of someone
from Weils Disease on your conscience?



--
Malcolm

Peter Crosland 21-04-2003 05:11 PM

Humane rat control
 

In the case of rabbits, I think landowners have been known to
trade/capture/release ones infected with myxymatosis and that other
deadly rabbit disease whose name has just eluded me.


Do you mean viral haemorrhagic disease?



Bart Bailey 21-04-2003 05:34 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:07:06 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Malcolm contains these words:

I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
Rabbits or Brown Rats. Perhaps it was never thought necessary as no-one
would be daft enough to want to do it :-))


In the case of rabbits, I think landowners have been known to
trade/capture/release ones infected with myxymatosis and that other
deadly rabbit disease whose name has just eluded me.


Tularemia?

Janet.



Bart

Peter Crosland 21-04-2003 08:08 PM

Humane rat control
 
It is certainly the case in South Somerset. Mice and wasps are charged for
but rats are free!



Victoria Clare 21-04-2003 09:08 PM

Humane rat control
 
"Peter Crosland" wrote in
:

It is certainly the case in South Somerset. Mice and wasps are charged
for but rats are free!


Rats are free here too (Cornwall). The Rat Man puts down plastic bags of
poisoned corn, in the hope that the rats will gnaw through the bag and eat
the corn (so you can tell if the bait has been touched or not).

According to him, the poison makes the rat very thirsty, but is not
painful.

Presumably this works on some rats: in my case my rat showed no interest in
the corn at all! The Rat Man came and took the bait away after a while,
but he didn't seem to have a backup plan.

I moved my rabbits and their food to a rat-proof location instead, and the
rat went away. If it hadn't, I was planning to borrow a ferret ;-)

Victoria

Peter Crosland 21-04-2003 10:44 PM

Humane rat control
 
The correct procedure is to lay the bait where the rat can get at it but to
prevent, as far as possible, access to other creatures particularly domestic
pets. The local rodent control operative does this by using a 500mm length
of pipe with a diameter of some 100mm with half of each end blocked off. He
places this in a run he has identified that the rats use. Initially it may
attract additional rats since the poison is designed to be very attractive
to them. Usually all have gone within a fortnight. To be successful you need
to remove other food sources such as birdseed. Rats are by their nature very
cautious and need time to pluck up the courage to eat. A slow acting poison
is used so that the rats ingest a fatal dose before any symptoms become
apparent. 100% success rate here!



jane 21-04-2003 10:56 PM

Humane rat control
 
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:00:40 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

~ Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act ...
~ snip
~ It includes Grey Squirrel and Black Rat but not Rabbit or Brown Rat.
~
~ I don't know of any law which prohibits the capture and release of
~ Rabbits or Brown Rats.
~
~ One that covers vermin perhaps?
~
~ As you say that act is to preserve the indigenous habitat/species from
~ imports. Though the rabbit is techincally an import albeit it it has
~ been here a long time, the Romans introduced it I think.
~
~Thanks for that Malcolm and Dave. AFAIK neither the brown rat, rattus
~norvgicus, or the black rat, rattus rattus, are native species. The Normans
~imported the rabbit in quantity. The Romans were responsible for importing
~the edible dormouse, gliss gliss, that has become a major pest in some parts
~of the Home Counties.
~
~As for the OP your love of animals needs to be tempered with some common
~sense. As an animal lover I deplore cruelty to most species but in the case
~of vermin it is necessary to be realistic and accept that they need to be
~killed for the greater good. Although rare the diseases spread by rat are
~potentially lethal and very unpleasant. Would you like the death of someone
~from Weils Disease on your conscience?

Just as an aside, I once read that the average rat carries between 7 and 12
lethal diseases for humans.

The average town pigeon carries 36.

Tom Lehrer, anyone?


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!

Bigjon 22-04-2003 10:20 AM

Humane rat control
 
Recently, Essjay001 uttered:

Mimi De Moratti scribbled:


Well actually I don't like cats and have mananged over the past 3
years to discourage them, very successfully in fact. My neighbour has
3 and there is a ferral cat who wanders around at night. Obviously
they have not done the job!


Which only goes to bolster my argument against cats. What bloody good are
they?


My three cats have proved very good at Rat control - they don't catch or
kill many of them, but they act as a great deterrent. We had an enormous
Rat problem when we moved in here, but a few months on and the Cats have
deterred them. A constant regime of cleaning and tidying, as well as
removing food potential sources and homes has ensured they stay away ( or
at least, we don't see any evidence of them ). A Humane way to dispense
with them, if you have a concsience that will allow a little expenditure :
http://www.agrizap.com/pricing.cfm
They ship to the UK for a few dollars more....
--
\\(º`¿´º)//
It's probably on http://support.microsoft.com/ somewhere....
If you can be bothered to look for it....

Jim W 25-04-2003 01:20 AM

Humane rat control
 
Peter Crosland wrote:


The Environmental Health Department of your local Council will probably deal
with the problem free of charge.


I'd be surprised if this was the case.. Most councils I know of charge
more than local contractors.. Certainly where I live anyway!-)
//
Jim


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