On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.

wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.


not true, you are parroting a canard oft used by the organic lobby


http://www.pollutionissues.com/Na-Ph/Pesticides.html
The concept of pesticides is not new. Around 1000 B.C.E. Homer referred to
the use of sulfur to fumigate homes and by 900 C.E. the Chinese were using
arsenic to control garden pests. Although major pest outbreaks have
occurred, such as potato blight (Phytopthora infestans), which destroyed
most potato crops in Ireland during the mid-nineteenth century, not until
later that century were pesticides such as arsenic, pyrethrum, lime sulfur,
and mercuric chloride used. Between this period and World War II, inorganic
and biological substances, such as Paris green, lead arsenate, calcium
arsenate, selenium compounds, lime-sulfur, pyrethrum, thiram, mercury,
copper sulfate, derris, and nicotine were used, but the amounts and
frequency of use were limited, and most pest control employed cultural
methods such as rotations, tillage, and manipulation of sowing dates. After
World War II the use of pesticides mushroomed, and there are currently more
than 1,600 pesticides available and about 4.4 million tons used annually, at
a cost of more than $20 billion. The United States accounts for more than 25
percent of this market.

pk

"PK" wrote in message
news
wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.


not true, you are parroting a canard oft used by the organic lobby



As I understand it, the "dig for victory" booklet during the war recommended
loads of chemicals.

I'm not taking sides here. I don't use chemicals, it's because I'm too cheap
:-)

Steve

On 14 Jan, 12:22, "shazzbat"
wrote:
As I understand it, the "dig for victory" booklet during the war recommended
loads of chemicals.

Off course. Even the text posted explains this!

I'm not taking sides here. I don't use chemicals, it's because I'm too cheap
:-)

Good. I love cheap people ;o)

wrote:
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz.

Helene, you can't stop me. I've said it.

On 14 Jan, 16:19, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

Helene, you can't stop me. I've said it.

yawn

wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 16:19, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

Helene, you can't stop me. I've said it.

yawn


Tired at THIS time of day? What time did you go to bed?

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

writes
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.

Chemical fertilisers were introduced before the 50s.

Linz is correct in saying that allotments were not set up in order to
encourage people to grow organically. You personally may feel that the
point of having an allotment is to grow food organically, but that is
not the fundamental purpose of allotments, eg the Allotment Act 1922:
defines the term ‘allotment garden’ as
“an allotment not exceeding forty rods (1,012 square meters) in extent
which is wholly or mainly cultivated by the occupier for the production
of vegetable or fruit crops for consumption by himself or his family�
--
Kay

On Jan 14, 6:01*pm, K wrote:


Chemical fertilisers were introduced before the 50s.

Hi Kay. Yes, the triple superphosphate was relaunched after the war,
hence why we think it's when it all started when it fact they had
started experimenting with the acid rocks in the early 1900s. But
beside from blood, bones, fish fertilisers, there weren't any
chemicals before 1889 when ICI started grinding the condiments to make
these chemicals. So yes, I might be wrong - but in all respect there
was no use of chemicals before this. And truthfully I don't care. What
I care now is that we stop using them which we will eventually no
doubt and I will do anything I can to tell people that they don't need
them. I am in a lot of position to do just that and that is what I
do )

wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 6:01 pm, K wrote:


Chemical fertilisers were introduced before the 50s.

So yes, I might be wrong - but in all respect there
was no use of chemicals before this.



Yes you a
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1121.htm
Historical Developments with Pesticides
Pesticides are not new. Ancient Romans killed insect pests by burning sulfur
and controlled weeds with salt. In the 1600s, ants were con-trolled with
mixtures of honey and arsenic. By the late nineteenth century, U.S. farmers
were using copper acetoarsenite (Paris green), calcium arsenate, nicotine
sulfate and sulfur to control insect pests in field crops, but results were
often unsatisfactory because of the primitive chemistry and application
methods



pk

wrote in message
...
So yes, I might be wrong - but in all respect there
was no use of chemicals before this.


and mo

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webproject...r/history.html

1500 BCEgyptians produce insecticdes against lice, fleas and wasps.
1000 BCThe Greek poet Homer reffered to a pest-averting sulphur.
200 BCThe Roman writer Cato advises vineyard farmers to burn bitumen to
remove insects.
early 1700'sJohn Parkinson, author of 'Paradisus, The Ordering Of The
Orchard' recommended a concoction of vinegar, cow dung and urine to be put
on trees with canker.
1711In England, the foul smelling herb rue was boiled and sprayed on trees
to remove canthraid flies.
1763In Marseilles, a mixture of water, slaked lime and bad tobacco was a
remedy for plant lice.
1800'sMany developements occur.
1821London Horticultural Society advised that sulphur is the remedy for
mildew on peaches.
1867The beginning of modeern pesticide use. Colorado beetle invade US
potatoe crops and arsenic is applied.
1885Professor Millardet, a French professor, discovers a copper mixture to
destroy mildew.
late 1800'sFrench vineyard growers have the idea of selective weed killers.
1892The first synthetic pesticide, potassium dinitro-2-cresylate, marketed
in Germany.
1900'sInsecticides, fungicides and herbicides have all been discovered.
early 1900'sInorganic substances introduced.
1932Products to control house hold pests marketed.
1939The Second World War causes three discoveries: 1. the insecticide DDT.
2. the organophosphrous insecticides. 3. the selective phenoxyacetic
herbicides.
1945After the Second World War, farming intensity intensified production.
1950'sGeigy introduces the carbamates.


to say there was no chemical *use* as you do is fatuous gibberish


Post WW2 there was an enormous growth in the manufacture of pesticides and
fertilizers, but to say there was no chemical use is delusional.

pk

On 15 Jan, 10:53, "PK" wrote:

1892The first synthetic pesticide, potassium dinitro-2-cresylate, marketed
in Germany.

Wow! I had said 1889 when in fact it was 1892. Close! (I had a good
teacher you see - an American geologist teaching for the Royal Society
of Horticulture). Also I do not count a concoction of urine, cow dung
and vinegar chemicals, nor do I count using the plant Rue to be a
chemical. And sulphur was used by the Egyptians in natural forms, more
or less, under the form of burnt wood and volcano rocks that they
burn, they did not produce the SO2 (acid) that we have today. So like
you've found on the internet, the first synthetic pesticide was made
in 1892, I said 1889 to be the beginning of chemicals in gardening
with the grinding they did abroad, notably in France. And I've
explained why we thought the use of chemicals were after the war.

I said I was wrong - it's not delusion, nor is it gibberish. Please
don't google yet again another pedantic rposible poke at me with this.
I'm not sure where you're going with it, and I'm don't want to
follow.

Following up to wrote:

I said I was wrong - it's not delusion, nor is it gibberish. Please
don't google yet again another pedantic rposible poke at me with this.
I'm not sure where you're going with it, and I'm don't want to
follow.

i would like to see stats for quantities of inorganic matter applied
per square whatever over history, I suspect its a steep upward graph.
Even if Tutenkamun put ground up beetle on his pot plants.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

On 15 Jan, 14:25, Mike.......
wrote:

i would like to see stats for quantities of inorganic matter applied
per square whatever over history, I suspect its a steep upward graph.
Even if Tutenkamun put ground up beetle on his pot plants.

) Couldn't give you the exact quantities, but could perhaps find
when and what was put on the shelves and later removed. And
subsequently I could then give you facts/figures on parental exposure
to pesticide and congenital malformations and cancers from North
America to South Africa - though that's pretty grim stuff.

Even the Museum of Garden History in London has a health warning which
says:- 'Please note that the following advice was written before the
harmful effect of some chemicals were known. Treat it as of historical
interest and not practical advice!'. And that wasn't on the basis of
large commercial growing but for the Knott Garden alone.

ps. I've got lots of info/images about beetles, if you're interested.
I think they're gorgeous ... g

wrote:
And sulphur was used by the Egyptians in natural forms,

That'd be brimstone then, which is Sulphur

more
or less, under the form of burnt wood and volcano rocks that they
burn, they did not produce the SO2 (acid) that we have today.

All "burning" is oxidisation.

Burn sulphur and you get sulphur dioxide (SO2), add to water and you get
sulphuric acid (H2SO4). This was still true 4000 years ago.

You really do know **** all don't you?