Hello,

I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?

Both plots have been neglected and are very overgrown. The chap who
showed me around tried to reassure me that it wasn't as bad as it
looks. He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop

I've only ever used an electric strimmer on grass on the lawn before;
never a petrol one and I've never used a rotavator. Are they worth
hiring or picking up second hand?

How big is a rotavator; will it fit in a standard car, else how will I
get it to the allotment?

Thanks.

Following up to Fred wrote:

He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop

as you will want to cut grass on a regular basis i would buy a honda
4stroke (good make) brush cutter/strimmer, you can use this to cut
the grass long term. Do wear the protective gear. Nobody likes a dog
turd in the face (well most dont).

Om my site some swear by rotovator and other say useless!

pro: no backbreaking work, you just repeat until the weeds give up.

anti: rotovator cuts couch grass roots into little segments that all
then grow!

BTW which way does the slope run (south facing would be nice)? I would
choose one over the other if it looked less vulnerable to vandalism
(non proximity to estate type housing).
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

"Fred" wrote
I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?

Both plots have been neglected and are very overgrown. The chap who
showed me around tried to reassure me that it wasn't as bad as it
looks. He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop

I've only ever used an electric strimmer on grass on the lawn before;
never a petrol one and I've never used a rotavator. Are they worth
hiring or picking up second hand?

How big is a rotavator; will it fit in a standard car, else how will I
get it to the allotment?

The problem with a slope is which direction does it slope. If it's towards
the sun, south, then your ground will heat up quicker in the spring and
plants will get a good start. The down side is that in the summer you might
have to water more. If it has a serious slope you might find a thin poor
soil at the top and a quagmire at the bottom. If it slopes away from the sun
give it a miss.
Yes, strimming is what needs to be done, however the rotovating depends on
what weeds are there. If you rotovate with couch grass or bindweed roots in
the soil you will simply spread it all over. Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial
ones and then rotovated to get a crop the first year. I then hand dug the
space left every time a crop was harvested so after the first year all of
the plot had been hand dug and any bricks/stones/glass etc had been removed.
Unfortunately Glysophate only works on green leaves so it will not work this
time of the year.
A petrol strimmer is a completely different animal to an electric one,
ensure you wear steel toecap boots, strong trousers, gloves and essential is
a full face mask. Those stones hurt when they fly up into your face and
despite a full mask I have had a stone cut my ear. Make sure nobody else is
anywhere near too, and explain to anyone around that they must keep away.
In my experience second-hand strimmers are normally worn out, rotovators are
often little used so check condition and if possible buy a good make (e.g.
Honda) where spares are available.

Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha


I worked with a chap when I lived in Leicester who had 3 Allotments with a
friend and ran it as a commercial venture.

Mike


--
www.rnshipmates.co.uk for ALL Royal Navy Association matters
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly
"Navy Days" Portsmouth 25th - 27th July 2008. RN Shipmates will be there.

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

It's not illegal but it may be contrary to your contract with the landlord.
Usually they don't give a monkeys as long as you don't run your allotment as
a business

Following up to Sacha wrote:

A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment.

IIRC corretly i can sell a limited amount of stuff (gluts i suppose),
it probably varies between councils, the trend is away from
limitations as its less of a facility for the poor to grow food and
more of a keep fit and eat a healthy 5 a day diet.

I just read my tenancy conditions, nothing about selling stuff.

That restaurant that sources only within the M25 was looking at
allotments for sources!
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

On 10/1/08 15:38, in article ,
"Robert (Plymouth)" remove my other
hobby to reply wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

It's not illegal but it may be contrary to your contract with the landlord.
Usually they don't give a monkeys as long as you don't run your allotment as
a business


Thanks Robert. That explains it - different rules and regs in different
places.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Sacha" wrote after...
"Bob Hobden" replied

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!

Depends on the local Council, ours allows you to sell your excess produce
and a friend of mine does just that to fund his seed purchase but they are
strict about plots not being used for commercial gain and have thrown people
off sites when they have found out they used the plots for growing plants
for their garden design firm. Ours do check plots out during the year to see
what's being grown and how well the plots are tended.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:14:58 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial
ones

Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?


You're not in Disley by any chance Fred? My sister has a plot there and it's
at 45deg! She's using raised beds to terrace it to make it a bit flatter. It
would drain something rotten in prolonged dry periods, but this is unlikely
to be an issue in Disley, known locally as Drizzly Disley. :-))

Steve

"Fred" wrote after...
"Bob Hobden" replied
Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including
perennial
ones

Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

Supposed to be, yes. I would not use it again on my present plot but it does
do a good job if starting from a wild patch and if I had to start another
new allotment from such a state I would certainly use it again. Couch grass
is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

On 10 Jan, 18:18, Fred wrote:
Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

Indeed - and if you are planning fruit trees, think of their eventual
height (and therefore root diameter) so that they don't cast a long
shadow on your crops and don't take most of your soil allocated to
your vegs. Also it depends what your crops are. I grow fruit bushes in
partial shade and find they crop much better, are sweeter and firmer
and last longer. Same for the strawbs and leaf vegs. I'm sure you've
made a plan on paper. Checking your soil would be an idea too so that
you start on a good footing. Spending time observing the plot, for
wind and sun paterns is a great start. The weeds also will indicates
the type of soil you have. The slope is often an advantage for fruit
trees, as described by Bob - the worry there would be frost pockets
and wind breaks. You must find your orientations before organising
your planting if you're on a slope even a slight one.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

I am absolutely against this. I would also check with your allotment
committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they
don't mind. (I'd also add that if you are planning to sell your
vegetables as asked previously, you need to check your council, as
that is not allowed unless specified otherwise, and get a licence if
your allotment is not certified organic by the FSC, because food stuff
might be contaminated with chemicals and metals etc.). We have 120
plots and we are all organic. We don't sell our surplus but share it,
which is much nicer.

I would also not use a rotovator for the reason given by Mike. I've
successfully cleared many plots for years using elbow grease. It has
brought me closer to the ground, to the soil and in this way I've
found lots of information about the soil I'm about to work with. I
don't think the local Robin will come next to your petrol smoke
chucking rotovator to help itself to the bugs you've unearthed of it.
It is perhaps a slower process but in the end it really pays up. Isn't
this what gardening is all about after all? Finally, your plot must
be at its maximum lenght of 10 rods!? Therefore there's very little
need to go to the expense of using petrol machinery.

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

Couch grass
is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way.

Not forgetting ground elder which is also horrendous to clear and
easily spread.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

wrote:

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

I am absolutely against this. I would also check with your allotment
committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they
don't mind. (I'd also add that if you are planning to sell your
vegetables as asked previously, you need to check your council, as
that is not allowed unless specified otherwise, and get a licence if
your allotment is not certified organic by the FSC, because food stuff
might be contaminated with chemicals and metals etc.). We have 120
plots and we are all organic. We don't sell our surplus but share it,
which is much nicer.

Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment holder?
Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't?

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)