After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled garden.

You can see the garden on http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.

Thanks
Pat Gardiner

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar and
they make good jam.
--
Rhiannon_s
There is no God but Eris, and Jay and Silent Bob are her Prophets.

"Rhiannon_s" wrote in message
...

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have
two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos
and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar and
they make good jam.

Thanks for that. I have a couple of Serbian quinces, but once long ago, we
did have Japanese quinces under the south facing windows - and very nice
they were too. Pretty flowers and very flavoursome fruit. That was in a sun
trap and on "sandlings" soil.

I checked Japanese quinces and they seem to indicate that full sun is needed
and that they are between 1/3 metres tall. The wall is about 4M and, will of
course, be in full shade.

On the basis that you will never know if you don't try, unless anyone has
any more ideas....


--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com



This time
--
Rhiannon_s
There is no God but Eris, and Jay and Silent Bob are her Prophets.

On 15/1/08 11:17, in article , "Pat
Gardiner" wrote:


"Rhiannon_s" wrote in message
...

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have
two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos
and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar and
they make good jam.

Thanks for that. I have a couple of Serbian quinces, but once long ago, we
did have Japanese quinces under the south facing windows - and very nice
they were too. Pretty flowers and very flavoursome fruit. That was in a sun
trap and on "sandlings" soil.

I checked Japanese quinces and they seem to indicate that full sun is needed
and that they are between 1/3 metres tall. The wall is about 4M and, will of
course, be in full shade.

On the basis that you will never know if you don't try, unless anyone has
any more ideas....

I'm not into fruit growing much but don't currants do quite well in shade?
Gooseberries?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
says...

"Rhiannon_s" wrote in message
...

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have
two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos
and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar and
they make good jam.

Thanks for that. I have a couple of Serbian quinces, but once long ago, we
did have Japanese quinces under the south facing windows - and very nice
they were too. Pretty flowers and very flavoursome fruit. That was in a sun
trap and on "sandlings" soil.

I checked Japanese quinces and they seem to indicate that full sun is needed
and that they are between 1/3 metres tall. The wall is about 4M and, will of
course, be in full shade.

On the basis that you will never know if you don't try, unless anyone has
any more ideas....



If you planted two and depending on what part of the country your wall is
in then Akebia quinata or Akebia trifolia will both grow and fruit on a
north wall but fruit production seems to require hand pollination or is
unreliable in the UK. similarly Holboella latifolia (here I found the
fruit very attractive to look at but a bit insipid to taste)
You may also consider Lapageria rosea although again you would need two
genetically different plants and although the goosberry sized fruits are
lovely they contain around 100 seeds which T&M can charge more than a
pound per seed for, which may put you off eating them!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 15/1/08 11:17, in article , "Pat
Gardiner" wrote:


"Rhiannon_s" wrote in message
...

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled
garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I
have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have
two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos
and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there
any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar
and
they make good jam.

Thanks for that. I have a couple of Serbian quinces, but once long ago,
we
did have Japanese quinces under the south facing windows - and very nice
they were too. Pretty flowers and very flavoursome fruit. That was in a
sun
trap and on "sandlings" soil.

I checked Japanese quinces and they seem to indicate that full sun is
needed
and that they are between 1/3 metres tall. The wall is about 4M and, will
of
course, be in full shade.

On the basis that you will never know if you don't try, unless anyone has
any more ideas....

I'm not into fruit growing much but don't currants do quite well in shade?
Gooseberries?

I do have a standard gooseberry, amongst my flock- a very good way of mixing
gooseberries and bad backs and not difficult to train - reccomended.

You are right, they do tolerate shade, but alas won't stretch the height. I
can't imagine more than three or four feet.


--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...

"Rhiannon_s" wrote in message
...

"Pat Gardiner" wrote in message
...
After nearly ten years, I'm planting the last wall in the walled
garden.

You can see the garden on
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/photowalledg.htm

You can see the north wall at the far right, the inner side has the
peaches
apricots, and sweet cherries.

The outer north facing surface has been cleared of vegetation and I
have
planted three damsons (that I know do well on a north wall) and I have
two
more spaces.

My problem is that makes five different damsons and two pairs Morellos
and
Nabelas already.

It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there
any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.



Japanese Quinces might do ok there. I've seen them growing in similar
and
they make good jam.

Thanks for that. I have a couple of Serbian quinces, but once long ago,
we
did have Japanese quinces under the south facing windows - and very nice
they were too. Pretty flowers and very flavoursome fruit. That was in a
sun
trap and on "sandlings" soil.

I checked Japanese quinces and they seem to indicate that full sun is
needed
and that they are between 1/3 metres tall. The wall is about 4M and, will
of
course, be in full shade.

On the basis that you will never know if you don't try, unless anyone has
any more ideas....



If you planted two and depending on what part of the country your wall is
in then Akebia quinata or Akebia trifolia will both grow and fruit on a
north wall but fruit production seems to require hand pollination or is
unreliable in the UK. similarly Holboella latifolia (here I found the
fruit very attractive to look at but a bit insipid to taste)
You may also consider Lapageria rosea although again you would need two
genetically different plants and although the goosberry sized fruits are
lovely they contain around 100 seeds which T&M can charge more than a
pound per seed for, which may put you off eating them!

I'm in East Anglia on clay with a good admixture of lime. So, I would have
to change the soil for Lapageria rosea and it seems that although they would
like a sheltered wall, north sounds a bit dodgy. But you have attracted my
interest. I'm reorganising my tunnels with raised beds and could fill one
with ericacious soil, for this plus some extra blueberries and cranberries.
Which reminds me, the dog pulled out 20 brand new cranberry plants last
year. I'm going to plan some of last years berries and hope for some plants.

Seeds are dear. I get mad over staples like melons and cucumbers being so
expensive.

Akebia quinata or Akebia trifolia both seem to be a bit tender for the site
and is the taste that good?

Thanks anyway. I'm keeping working on this. There must be something. Keep
the ideas coming!


--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Pat Gardiner wrote:

I'm in East Anglia on clay with a good admixture of lime. So, I would
have to change the soil for Lapageria rosea and it seems that
although they would like a sheltered wall, north sounds a bit dodgy.

Not at all. If there is one thing Lapageria hates it is sun. I grow mine
(in a 40cm pot) on a north-west facing wall under a verandah, protected from
south and south-west sun by a garage wall. It only ever gets any sun for a
couple of hours or so in the afternoon/evening from late May through to late
July - and doesn't like it. It is still in flower (started early July 2007,
but usually doesn't start until mid-late August). In the 2006 - 7 flowering
season, there were around 300 flowers in total. As each one lasts in excess
of 3 weeks, that isn't bad going. It most certainly would be in my top 10
flowering plants.

The only thing I would be worried about is a bad frost. Not sure how bad it
has to be to cause severe damage (perhaps Charlie P. can advise on this),
but as Lapageria is pretty slow to establish and get going, you really don't
want to lose any of it. Also, as you have stated, you would have to change
your soil. Either that or grow it in a large pot. But although it has
fairly tough leaves, I don't think it is too keen on a dry atmosphere. And
as you live in East Anglia...

As a suggestion, and although a north-facing wall may not exactly suit it,
how about trying Decaisnea fargesii for a bit of fun? Not too difficult
from seed.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

On 14 Jan, 16:51, "Pat Gardiner" wrote:
It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.

An old rose providing lots of juicy hips. Hips are good to beat
ageing ... ;o)
You have a fabulous garden and wonderful ethos.

In article ,
says...
Pat Gardiner wrote:

I'm in East Anglia on clay with a good admixture of lime. So, I would
have to change the soil for Lapageria rosea and it seems that
although they would like a sheltered wall, north sounds a bit dodgy.

Not at all. If there is one thing Lapageria hates it is sun. I grow mine
(in a 40cm pot) on a north-west facing wall under a verandah, protected from
south and south-west sun by a garage wall. It only ever gets any sun for a
couple of hours or so in the afternoon/evening from late May through to late
July - and doesn't like it. It is still in flower (started early July 2007,
but usually doesn't start until mid-late August). In the 2006 - 7 flowering
season, there were around 300 flowers in total. As each one lasts in excess
of 3 weeks, that isn't bad going. It most certainly would be in my top 10
flowering plants.

The only thing I would be worried about is a bad frost. Not sure how bad it
has to be to cause severe damage (perhaps Charlie P. can advise on this),
but as Lapageria is pretty slow to establish and get going, you really don't
want to lose any of it. Also, as you have stated, you would have to change
your soil. Either that or grow it in a large pot. But although it has
fairly tough leaves, I don't think it is too keen on a dry atmosphere. And
as you live in East Anglia...

As a suggestion, and although a north-facing wall may not exactly suit it,
how about trying Decaisnea fargesii for a bit of fun? Not too difficult
from seed.


I Certainly would only use north walls for Lapageria unless walls facing
West could be provided with summer shade from trees etc. but they don't
like soil that is alkaline and do like high humidity, frost on a suitable
wall is not too much problem (I know several people growing them outside
in East Scotland) but you are correct in saying they are slow, we do not
let them go until they are 5-7 years old and even then I would grow on
for a further 3-4 years before planting out anywhere other than ideal.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Oooooooooh I do like a good conspiracy site :-)

wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 16:51, "Pat Gardiner" wrote:
It there another sharp cherry that would do OK on this wall? Is there any
other fruit that might thrive? I'm stumpted.

An old rose providing lots of juicy hips. Hips are good to beat
ageing ... ;o)
You have a fabulous garden and wonderful ethos.

Thanks Helene

I should perhaps explain that both garden and website are currently a bit
neglected due to illness. The garden is getting some attention now. Raised
beds in the tunnels, new watering systems, improved log storage....compost
production. I want to start more propogation etc

I gave the website to a Norwegian botanist friend, but alas, she has gone
off sick, so I'm not sure when, or if, it will return to regular updates.

It is perhaps time to apologise for the furious row over animal health
spilling over to ukrg from ukba from time to time. That is not my doing.
Some of the people follow me about the usenet.

The ill mannered dispute has been going on for seven years, but the issues
are unbelievably important - including the source of much human MRSA.
Sorry if it disturbed your peace and tranquility.


--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com

On 16 Jan, 11:07, "Pat Gardiner" wrote:
I should perhaps explain that both garden and website are currently a bit
neglected due to illness. The garden is getting some attention now. Raised
beds in the tunnels, new watering systems, improved log storage....compost
production. I want to start more propogation etc
I gave the website to a Norwegian botanist friend, but alas, she has gone
off sick, so I'm not sure when, or if, it will return to regular updates.

Oh, don't you worry! There's enough on your website for a fortnight
bedtime reading! I had seen your site before, we talked last year - I
used to sign as La Puce. But due to my nickname continuous distortion,
I dropped it, reluctantly as it's my name ... Now it's time for
planning - preferably with your feet up in the warmth. So gather your
strength and get well soon.

It is perhaps time to apologise for the furious row over animal health
spilling over to ukrg from ukba from time to time. That is not my doing.
Some of the people follow me about the usenet.
The *ill mannered dispute has been going on for seven years, but the issues
are unbelievably important - including the source of *much human MRSA.
Sorry if it disturbed your peace and tranquility.

Again, it's an individual choice to read or not to read what is thrown
here. I wouldn't worry. It was interesting )

"Granity" wrote in message
...

Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com


Oooooooooh I do like a good conspiracy site :-)


You can never tell how these things affect even gardening.

Believe it or not, according to the animal disease regulations, we were not
allowed to put kitchen waste on a compost heap, because we kept pigs.

Pigs are not allowed kitchen scraps in case meat is included.

We had to have another separate kitchen (we put one in the garage) to
prepare vegetables only and these could go on a compost heap. Waste from the
kitchen had to go into the bin.

We were minding our own business one day in the garden - and all hell broke
loose.

We caught one of the most senior government vets faking up a blood test on
our backyard pig in the middle of an epidemic. What happened then was quite
extraordinary. You see these senior government vets on TV - I have had them
in my drawing room threatening my wife.

However, we have thoroughly caught those beggars at Westminster hiding up an
epidemic. The epidemic that was to lead to MRSA spreading around the world.

Alas, conspiracies do exist. I think they get away with it because most
people not unreasonably, think "They wouldn't do that!"

All together, after me..."Oh, yes they would!"

Gardening needs to be very cautious and suspicious.

Now, to avoid disrupting the peaceful pursuit of planning for garden 2008, I
suggest we take this conversation to ukba, where I will tell you just how
evil Britain's government vets are, how I singlehandedly got the EU Fraud
Squad (OLAF) to raid a British government office and why Britain's pigs are
spreading MRSA to people.

Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com




--
Granity

A few comments on things that have been said.
(1) Japanese quince, ie chaenomeles japonica, (not a true quince, Cydonia, which is what I presume you mean by Serbian quince) comes in many different forms and varieties. Some are climbers, some are shrubs, and many of them get quite large. I have one which arrived by accident, I think possibly by germination of a pip from a fallen fruit of another one I have. It grows vigorously on a heavily shaded north-facing fence, and gets plenty of flowers and fruit. Lightens up a dark corner nicely. It has fairly "ordinary" small red flowers, and climbs, so I suspect it is the equivalent of a wildling apple. There are many other varieties, which as you say are shrubby, like the sun, etc, but there's proof that you can get a vigorous wall shrub which will fruit on a north facing wall.
(2) Lagageria. In areas which have frosts, these are easier in a cool frost-free greenhouse, where they will continue to grow all winter. Out of doors, mine don't come out of dormancy until about May, so have much less time to put on the growth they need to do anything special. They need perpetual defence against slugs and snails, who find them the tastiest thing in your garden. Although the mature stems rapidly go hard and mollusc-proof, the growing tips and new leaves are what are eaten, and they don't do well when that happens. It is traditionally said you should grow them on a north wall, but actually in England they will do better if you give them more sunshine than that, in the manner of clematis. They naturally come from Chile where the intensity of light is much greater than here. The important thing is that they like it moist and humid. Also they need protection from frost until they are well established, ie roots down deeper than the frost can get. So provided the ground they are growing in is in moist shade, the upper parts of the plant would love to get out into the sun. In order to get fruit, you need to cross-pollinate between two plants from different seeds, and you have to do it by hand as there ain't no hummingbirds in Britain. In order for the seeds to be any use, they need to be straight out of the pod. The reputable specialist grower (tomorrowsplants.com) who will sell you seeds that will actually germinate distributes the seeds the day they come out of the pod and instructs you to plant them immediately. The ones that are dried and put in packets to be sold over the winter are a nice little earner, but they don't germinate. Only a dream was sold. Buy a plant that is actually growing, and leave tricky germinations to specialists. The fruits, btw, are very tasty. I've eaten them straight off the vine in Chile. If someone someday did the horticultural selection thing to get an improved fruit for eating quality, they could be very special.
(3) Eleagnus x ebbingei has edible berries, and will happily grow on a north-facing wall. But they are an acquired taste, and have large stones.
(4) Some Mahonias will grow in shady locations, and their fruits are edible, though the edibility varies with the variety. I can't say if those with fruit with good eating quality include any that will grow well in shade.
(5) Likewise Berberis are edible and some grow in the shade, but varieties of berberis with good eating quality take some searching down, and may not be in the shade-tolerating group.
(6) I've eaten ripe and very tasty berries off Amelanchier (canadensis or lamarcki, they are quite hard to tell apart) bushes growing in a reasonably shady spot in Oxfordshire. These need a fairly moist soil in which to thrive. The birds love them, so they may need netting. Mine is in a sunny dry spot, and doesn't do very well at all, it is inclined to get its leaves scorched off.