I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the size of tub required and also the compost that would be most suitable.

Billit wrote:
I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the
size of tub required and also the compost that would be most suitable.


There's lots of info on this subject. (To wit I have changed the subject to
be more evocative.)

Some Acers are difficult to grow in containers. For example sycamores or
paperbark maples get too big, and require at best frequent root pruning.

But you're not really asking that I suppose. You mean "Japanese Maples."
Use a pot only slightly larger than the container it came in, don't try
to pot
out to the eventual size. Otherwise you are likely to have drainage
problems.
Increase pot size as necessary. When you've reached the size you want
root prune every 3 years.

You can see some recommendations for soil he

http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/fo...ad.php?t=17604

MO is drainage is everything, not too much peat (hard to wet once dry) and
not to acid. Acer palmatum should not be planted in straight ericeous
compost.

Good luck.

-E

Emery Davis wrote:
Billit wrote:
I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the
size of tub required and also the compost that would be most
suitable.

MO is drainage is everything, not too much peat (hard to wet once
dry) and not to acid. Acer palmatum should not be planted in
straight ericeous compost.


Yes, just about all refs give the need for "well-drained" soil.

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a neutral to
slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any reference to not
using straight ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous compost").

FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost for 7
years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best red-leaved
palmatum cultivar around.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

Hi Jeff,

Jeff Layman wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:
Billit wrote:
I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the
size of tub required and also the compost that would be most
suitable.
MO is drainage is everything, not too much peat (hard to wet once
dry) and not to acid. Acer palmatum should not be planted in
straight ericeous compost.


Yes, just about all refs give the need for "well-drained" soil.

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a neutral to
slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any reference to not
using straight ericaceous compost.


"neutral to slightly acid" is standard for A. palmatum, as cited from
Vertrees 3rd ed.
"Japanese Maples." I think the issue is that most ericaceous (my
spelling error earlier)
compost one buys has too low a pH. (Tried to find rapidly the "ideal"
pH for palmatum
but didn't see it.) I know of no serious collector who uses straight
ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous compost").


Just FYI, this page tells us that we can plant this maple on
chalky/alkaline soil.
Not impossible but it would require a very green finger indeed to get it
to grow. Also
so to not get kicked out of the Society I am honour bound to mention
that there
is no Atropurpureum group, nor is this a proper cultivar. What's found
on the market
under this designation is a grex at best, but more likely seed grown
plants of uncertain
habit and vigour.

FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost for 7
years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best red-leaved
palmatum cultivar around.


I'm glad your plant is doing well and that you enjoy it. I suspect the
compost is
not so acid anymore unless you amend it.

Shin deshojo is a gorgeous maple in spring but is not known for holding
it's colour
well into summer. For that reason Vertrees lists it as group 1a,
(palmatum/upright/green),
and while van Gelderen et al put it in 1b (red) they mention that the
leaves fade to
dark green in summer. Although I don't yet grow this one I do the
original Deshojo (shin
simply means "new" in Japanese) and am very impressed by how well it
holds its colour.
Since mislabeling is endemic with maples, if yours stays a good red all
summer I'd wonder
if it is really who it purports to be!

cheers,

-E

Jeff Layman wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:
Billit wrote:
I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the
size of tub required and also the compost that would be most
suitable.
MO is drainage is everything, not too much peat (hard to wet once
dry) and not to acid. Acer palmatum should not be planted in
straight ericeous compost.


Yes, just about all refs give the need for "well-drained" soil.

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a neutral to
slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any reference to not
using straight ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous compost").

FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost for 7
years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best red-leaved
palmatum cultivar around.


But for how long does ericaceous compost stay acidic? Whatever is added
to it (sulphur?) must wash out pretty quickly.

In article ,
says...
Jeff Layman wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:
Billit wrote:
I would like views on growing Acers in tubs, Could anyone tell me the
size of tub required and also the compost that would be most
suitable.
MO is drainage is everything, not too much peat (hard to wet once
dry) and not to acid. Acer palmatum should not be planted in
straight ericeous compost.


Yes, just about all refs give the need for "well-drained" soil.

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a neutral to
slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any reference to not
using straight ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous compost").

FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost for 7
years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best red-leaved
palmatum cultivar around.


But for how long does ericaceous compost stay acidic? Whatever is added
to it (sulphur?) must wash out pretty quickly.

If peat or bark based it will tend to be acidic most composts have a bit
of lime added to make them slightly alkaline, so the problem exists the
other way ie standard potting composts after time will become less
alkaline and may become acidic. Its a slightly different story with JI
composts as it does depend on where the Loam comes from.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Jeff Layman wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a
neutral to slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any
reference to not using straight ericaceous compost.

"neutral to slightly acid" is standard for A. palmatum, as cited from
Vertrees 3rd ed.
"Japanese Maples." I think the issue is that most ericaceous (my
spelling error earlier)
compost one buys has too low a pH. (Tried to find rapidly the "ideal"
pH for palmatum
but didn't see it.) I know of no serious collector who uses straight
ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous
compost").
Just FYI, this page tells us that we can plant this maple on
chalky/alkaline soil.

Yes, it is a bit too universal! I was referring to the text below the photo
"It makes an excellent plant for a container, filled with ericaceous
compost."

Not impossible but it would require a very green finger indeed to get
it to grow. Also
so to not get kicked out of the Society I am honour bound to mention
that there
is no Atropurpureum group, nor is this a proper cultivar. What's
found on the market
under this designation is a grex at best, but more likely seed grown
plants of uncertain
habit and vigour.

You are probably correct, but it's in the RHS "Plantfinder" (under the same
name as the BBC webpage), which adds "tentatively accepted name in the RHS
Horticultural Database".


That's probably where the beeb got it from. Surprising that the RHS has
it that way
especially as most of the Maple Society officers figure in the ranks there.

FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost
for 7 years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best
red-leaved palmatum cultivar around.

I'm glad your plant is doing well and that you enjoy it. I suspect
the compost is
not so acid anymore unless you amend it.

Shin deshojo is a gorgeous maple in spring but is not known for
holding it's colour
well into summer. For that reason Vertrees lists it as group 1a,
(palmatum/upright/green),
and while van Gelderen et al put it in 1b (red) they mention that the
leaves fade to
dark green in summer. Although I don't yet grow this one I do the
original Deshojo (shin
simply means "new" in Japanese) and am very impressed by how well it
holds its colour.
Since mislabeling is endemic with maples, if yours stays a good red
all summer I'd wonder
if it is really who it purports to be!


It does fade to a pinky green in summer (although last year's summer was so
bad it kept its colour well for much longer). But then turns a superb red
in autumn. So when in leaf it is red for much longer than green. Do any
red-leaved acers stay red throughout summer?


Shin deshojo is by all accounts a great tree, sounds like that's what
you have.
You're lucky to have a good one, apparently the cultivar is somewhat
diluted and
there are some around that don't look very flash in springtime.

There are red leaved cultivars of A. palmatum that stay red through the
season:
Okagami, Trompenburg, Fireglow, Bloodgood. But they all tend to fade a
little in the
shade (with maybe the exception of Fireglow), so it's a balance between
leaf burn
and colour loss. Also of course culture counts, it is widely believed
that too much
nitrogen will cause greening.

My Deshojo stays nice and red, it's in pretty heavy shade.

cheers,

-E

Emery Davis wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

But where did the statement about ericaceous compost come from? According
to the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, "Most species prefer a
neutral to slightly acid soil". None of the books I have make any
reference to not using straight ericaceous compost.


"neutral to slightly acid" is standard for A. palmatum, as cited from
Vertrees 3rd ed.
"Japanese Maples." I think the issue is that most ericaceous (my
spelling error earlier)
compost one buys has too low a pH. (Tried to find rapidly the "ideal"
pH for palmatum
but didn't see it.) I know of no serious collector who uses straight
ericaceous compost.

See for example here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...ges/1579.shtml
(and other pages with a google search on "acer" and "ericaceous
compost").

Just FYI, this page tells us that we can plant this maple on
chalky/alkaline soil.

Yes, it is a bit too universal! I was referring to the text below the photo
"It makes an excellent plant for a container, filled with ericaceous
compost."

Not impossible but it would require a very green finger indeed to get
it to grow. Also
so to not get kicked out of the Society I am honour bound to mention
that there
is no Atropurpureum group, nor is this a proper cultivar. What's
found on the market
under this designation is a grex at best, but more likely seed grown
plants of uncertain
habit and vigour.

You are probably correct, but it's in the RHS "Plantfinder" (under the same
name as the BBC webpage), which adds "tentatively accepted name in the RHS
Horticultural Database".


FWIW, I have grown A. palmatum "shindeshojo" in ericaceous compost
for 7 years. It continues to do well, and IMHO is still the best
red-leaved palmatum cultivar around.


I'm glad your plant is doing well and that you enjoy it. I suspect
the compost is
not so acid anymore unless you amend it.

Shin deshojo is a gorgeous maple in spring but is not known for
holding it's colour
well into summer. For that reason Vertrees lists it as group 1a,
(palmatum/upright/green),
and while van Gelderen et al put it in 1b (red) they mention that the
leaves fade to
dark green in summer. Although I don't yet grow this one I do the
original Deshojo (shin
simply means "new" in Japanese) and am very impressed by how well it
holds its colour.
Since mislabeling is endemic with maples, if yours stays a good red
all summer I'd wonder
if it is really who it purports to be!


It does fade to a pinky green in summer (although last year's summer was so
bad it kept its colour well for much longer). But then turns a superb red
in autumn. So when in leaf it is red for much longer than green. Do any
red-leaved acers stay red throughout summer?

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

Emery Davis wrote:

Shin deshojo is by all accounts a great tree, sounds like that's what
you have.
You're lucky to have a good one, apparently the cultivar is somewhat
diluted and
there are some around that don't look very flash in springtime.

There are red leaved cultivars of A. palmatum that stay red through
the season:
Okagami, Trompenburg, Fireglow, Bloodgood. But they all tend to fade
a little in the
shade (with maybe the exception of Fireglow), so it's a balance
between leaf burn
and colour loss. Also of course culture counts, it is widely believed
that too much
nitrogen will cause greening.

My Deshojo stays nice and red, it's in pretty heavy shade.

cheers,

-E

I did say red! To my mind, Bloodgood is a rather deep burgundy.
Trompenburg looks a bit better, but not Fireglow or Okagami (although its
autumn colour is good). Some great photos to be found he
http://www.fujiyamagarden.com/showcase.html

My Shindes only gets sun pm in summer (west facing), and is watered twice
daily by timed drip. A couple of years ago I had to cut out a branch which
appeared to get dieback, but since then it seems ok.

The best "purple" palmatums (no idea what they were) I've ever seen were
growing a few hundred yards from the coast near Mystic in Connecticut. Both
were around 30 ft high and across. They looked perfect (early June - temp
was about 27°C), growing in full sun. It's a zone 7 area, they must have
got a lot of salt spray, and in midsummer temperatures must often have
exceeded 35°C. Perhaps not what we would call ideal conditions!

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

Jeff Layman wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:
Shin deshojo is by all accounts a great tree, sounds like that's what
you have.
You're lucky to have a good one, apparently the cultivar is somewhat
diluted and
there are some around that don't look very flash in springtime.

There are red leaved cultivars of A. palmatum that stay red through
the season:
Okagami, Trompenburg, Fireglow, Bloodgood. But they all tend to fade
a little in the
shade (with maybe the exception of Fireglow), so it's a balance
between leaf burn
and colour loss. Also of course culture counts, it is widely believed
that too much
nitrogen will cause greening.

My Deshojo stays nice and red, it's in pretty heavy shade.

cheers,

-E

I did say red! To my mind, Bloodgood is a rather deep burgundy.
Trompenburg looks a bit better, but not Fireglow or Okagami (although its
autumn colour is good). Some great photos to be found he
http://www.fujiyamagarden.com/showcase.html


Sam has a great web site, and I have enjoyed his movies as they've appeared
over the last couple of years. Music and all! We have sometimes
corresponded,
I think we share a lot of the same soil and culture problems. I use
more peat than
he does...

Really culture makes a lot of difference to colour. Although bloodgood
is very
dark. These are generally referred to as "red palmatums." My Okagami,
a mature
20 year old tree, but very unhappy with the amount of water it got last
year, is
quite bright in full sun, stays fully red all summer, and normally (but
not last year)
turns a florescent pink in fall. I don't grow Fireglow but it is often
mentioned as
the cultivar that holds its colour "best."

If you're interested in Acers the UBC forum and photo gallery is an
invaluable
resource. Also where the Maple Society hangs its hat. I'd really encourage
anyone interested in these beautiful trees to join...

My Shindes only gets sun pm in summer (west facing), and is watered twice
daily by timed drip. A couple of years ago I had to cut out a branch which
appeared to get dieback, but since then it seems ok.


Sounds ideal. I'd be a little worried about getting root bound if I
were you, though.

The best "purple" palmatums (no idea what they were) I've ever seen were
growing a few hundred yards from the coast near Mystic in Connecticut. Both
were around 30 ft high and across. They looked perfect (early June - temp
was about 27°C), growing in full sun. It's a zone 7 area, they must have
got a lot of salt spray, and in midsummer temperatures must often have
exceeded 35°C. Perhaps not what we would call ideal conditions!


Well, they like a bit of cold (hardy to zone 5) and do surprisingly well
in full sun
especially where there's a little ocean haze.

I was in Massachusetts in the fall and saw a tree like this, looked like
a Bloodgood
but with great fall colour, probably 100 years old. A lot of these US
trees especially
are seedlings, sold (improperly) as a cultivar but beautiful and worthy
trees regardless
of provenance.

I the spring M.S. newsletter there are some photos of a Japanese Sango
kaku that's
600 years old! A truly magnificent tree, to really appreciate it you'd
have to spend a
whole year admiring!

-E