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Old 31-03-2008, 12:13 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Build your own waterfall?

Hi folks...

I hope I am asking this in the right group...

I am thinking of putting in a waterfall in my garden. Maybe more a
cascading stream than waterfall.
My intention is to have a head of about 1m with a fairly rapid drop
into a smallish pond.

I have two options: Buy a precast one or build my own.
Precast are rather costly for what you get and don't always look the
part.
Building your own - a challenge. Not one that I am afraid of though.
(Obviously not informed

My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.
As for the parts that will get wet, I thought of covering the concrete
with fibreglass and a layer of pebbles on top to hide the obvious.
The width of the water section will be around 500mm.

Does this sound do-able? Anyone tried this and had problems? Any
better ideas?

To get a preformed one will cost around £350 and not be exactly what I
want. My option looks like it'll come well below that. And more so, be
what I want.


Thanks for any tips / ideas.


Regards,
Crispin
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Old 31-03-2008, 02:15 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 27
Default Build your own waterfall?

On 30 Mar, 23:13, wrote:
Hi folks...

I hope I am asking this in the right group...

I am thinking of putting in a waterfall in my garden. Maybe more a
cascading stream than waterfall.
My intention is to have a head of about 1m with a fairly rapid drop
into a smallish pond.

I have two options: Buy a precast one or build my own.
Precast are rather costly for what you get and don't always look the
part.
Building your own - a challenge. Not one that I am afraid of though.
(Obviously not informed

My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.
As for the parts that will get wet, I thought of covering the concrete
with fibreglass and a layer of pebbles on top to hide the obvious.
The width of the water section will be around 500mm.

Does this sound do-able? Anyone tried this and had problems? Any
better ideas?

To get a preformed one will cost around £350 and not be exactly what I
want. My option looks like it'll come well below that. And more so, be
what I want.

Thanks for any tips / ideas.

Regards,
Crispin


I don't have an answer, but I'm taking the liberty of cross-posting to
uk.d-i-y for you, because they love this sort of thing ;-)
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Old 31-03-2008, 03:54 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 15
Default Build your own waterfall?

On Mar 31, 12:15 pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:

My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.


Why not get a large block of polystyrene foam? Lighter and cheaper
than steel, and it won't go rusty. Hack into the shape you want and
cover with chicken wire and cement.
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Old 31-03-2008, 07:24 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 7
Default Build your own waterfall?

On Mar 31, 2:54*am, Matty F wrote:
On Mar 31, 12:15 pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:

My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.


Why not get a large block of polystyrene foam? Lighter and cheaper
than steel, and it won't go rusty. Hack into the shape you want and
cover with chicken wire and cement.


Martin: Thanks - I had thought of that but thought here might be a
better option. I'll watch that one as well..
Matt: Nice idea. Thanks. Much easier to form and if I don't like the
shape it's easier / cheaper to start again
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Old 31-03-2008, 09:37 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: May 2007
Posts: 5
Default Build your own waterfall?

On 31 Mar, 06:24, wrote:
On Mar 31, 2:54 am, Matty F wrote:

On Mar 31, 12:15 pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:


My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.


Why not get a large block of polystyrene foam? Lighter and cheaper
than steel, and it won't go rusty. Hack into the shape you want and
cover with chicken wire and cement.


Martin: Thanks - I had thought of that but thought here might be a
better option. I'll watch that one as well..
Matt: Nice idea. Thanks. Much easier to form and if I don't like the
shape it's easier / cheaper to start again




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Old 31-03-2008, 09:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: May 2007
Posts: 5
Default Build your own waterfall?

On 31 Mar, 06:24, wrote:
On Mar 31, 2:54 am, Matty F wrote:

On Mar 31, 12:15 pm, Martin Pentreath
wrote:


My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.


Why not get a large block of polystyrene foam? Lighter and cheaper
than steel, and it won't go rusty. Hack into the shape you want and
cover with chicken wire and cement.


Martin: Thanks - I had thought of that but thought here might be a
better option. I'll watch that one as well..
Matt: Nice idea. Thanks. Much easier to form and if I don't like the
shape it's easier / cheaper to start again


Oops hit the wrong button !

The polystyrene block might be a good idea bu the cement coating idea
is a no-no and I don't know what to offer as an alternative other than
fibre glass.. The cement will leach into the water and add minerals
which algae will thrive on. I suppose it is possible to seal the
cement, but a 1 m high wall of cement will look pretty unnatural and I
suspect if it is sealed nothing will grow on it to blend it in.

Rob
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:34 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4
Default Build your own waterfall?

On 31 Mar, 01:15, Martin Pentreath
wrote:
On 30 Mar, 23:13, wrote:



Hi folks...


I hope I am asking this in the right group...


I am thinking of putting in a waterfall in my garden. Maybe more a
cascading stream than waterfall.
My intention is to have a head of about 1m with a fairly rapid drop
into a smallish pond.


I have two options: Buy a precast one or build my own.
Precast are rather costly for what you get and don't always look the
part.
Building your own - a challenge. Not one that I am afraid of though.
(Obviously not informed


My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.
As for the parts that will get wet, I thought of covering the concrete
with fibreglass and a layer of pebbles on top to hide the obvious.
The width of the water section will be around 500mm.


Does this sound do-able? Anyone tried this and had problems? Any
better ideas?


To get a preformed one will cost around £350 and not be exactly what I
want. My option looks like it'll come well below that. And more so, be
what I want.


Thanks for any tips / ideas.


Regards,
Crispin


I don't have an answer, but I'm taking the liberty of cross-posting to
uk.d-i-y for you, because they love this sort of thing ;-)


To make it look good you need real rocks (from a local quarry or
landscape gardening place. Build a big waterproof tray (or a preformed
unit) and arrange the whole thing in it ! Must be strong enough for
the big rocks. Or you can get a sheet of rock cut, and use this as an
"edge" for the cascade.
If pumping from a pond, don't underestimate the amount of water
"absorbed" by the waterfall constuction. When the pump is off all the
water will be in the pond, and the pond can almost run dry when the
pump is started if not large enough. There are pond-building
websites / books with rules of thumb for all this.
Simon.
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:50 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 7
Default Build your own waterfall?

Thanks guys....

The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it.
However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not
sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something
under it for strength.

As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about
this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second
pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot
more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs
filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep
(for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water
level drop drastically.

To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the
time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".

Maybe I am being to ambitious
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:55 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 21
Default Build your own waterfall?

"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...

To make it look good you need real rocks (from a local quarry or
landscape gardening place. Build a big waterproof tray





Build a set of recessed steps into the bank, line with butyl, sit big rocks
on the steps, arrange small rocks and scree to hide the liner.

some numbers on water flow he
http://www.californiawaterscapes.com...fall-build.htm


pk

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Old 31-03-2008, 11:02 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,056
Default Build your own waterfall?


crispin.proctor wrote

I am thinking of putting in a waterfall in my garden. Maybe more a
cascading stream than waterfall.
My intention is to have a head of about 1m with a fairly rapid drop
into a smallish pond.

I have two options: Buy a precast one or build my own.
Precast are rather costly for what you get and don't always look the
part.
Building your own - a challenge. Not one that I am afraid of though.
(Obviously not informed

My idea on building one is to build a steel framed box about 1m high
with a random taper ff each side.
Then to cover this with chicken wire and bend to shape. Once happy, I
can cover with some mortar and rocks.
As for the parts that will get wet, I thought of covering the concrete
with fibreglass and a layer of pebbles on top to hide the obvious.
The width of the water section will be around 500mm.

Does this sound do-able? Anyone tried this and had problems? Any
better ideas?

To get a preformed one will cost around £350 and not be exactly what I
want. My option looks like it'll come well below that. And more so, be
what I want.


A liner under the waterfall would be your best idea, whilst concrete may
seem a good idea it will be very difficult to make a permanent seal between
it and the rocks you will use, I'm sure you will want to use real rocks
otherwise a precast plastic/fibreglass fall would do just as well. So place
your chosen liner (Butyl is best) under the whole thing sloping towards and
into the pond and then build your fall on top of that, any leakage will then
just find it's way back into the pond.
Good luck, they are notorious for leakage problems, get covered in algae
very quickly and need constant maintenance. IMO they also usually look
absurd/contrived in a small pond.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK




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Old 31-03-2008, 11:03 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 14
Default Build your own waterfall?

wrote:
Thanks guys....

The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it.
However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not
sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something
under it for strength.

As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about
this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second
pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot
more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs
filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep
(for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water
level drop drastically.

To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the
time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".

Maybe I am being to ambitious


Have a third "pond" - actually a covered tank of some sort. A small weir
from the second pond to the third.

So you pump from the third pond to the top. When that water gets to the
second pond any excess over what fills that pond goes over the weir into
the third pond. By being covered you don't notice the level of the third
pond at all and that of the second remains static.

You will also need to have a means by which the third pond can lose
excess water when there is heavy rain.

(I used to have a house which had a single visible pond and a waterfall
down a cliff-like face. This had a hidden second pond. The arrangement
didn't work properly as the concrete was porous and had cracked, but the
idea was fine. The hidden pond was very popular with frogs...)
--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org
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Old 31-03-2008, 11:28 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 4
Default Build your own waterfall?

On 31 Mar, 10:03, Rod wrote:
wrote:
Thanks guys....


The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it.
However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not
sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something
under it for strength.


As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about
this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second
pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot
more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs
filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep
(for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water
level drop drastically.


To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the
time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".


Maybe I am being to ambitious


Have a third "pond" - actually a covered tank of some sort. A small weir
from the second pond to the third.

So you pump from the third pond to the top. When that water gets to the
second pond any excess over what fills that pond goes over the weir into
the third pond. By being covered you don't notice the level of the third
pond at all and that of the second remains static.

You will also need to have a means by which the third pond can lose
excess water when there is heavy rain.

(I used to have a house which had a single visible pond and a waterfall
down a cliff-like face. This had a hidden second pond. The arrangement
didn't work properly as the concrete was porous and had cracked, but the
idea was fine. The hidden pond was very popular with frogs...)
--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org


This waterproofing this is a big issue. We had a nice waterfall
feature ruined by a tear in the liner somewhere underneath the rocks !
Simon.
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Old 31-03-2008, 12:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 2,520
Default Build your own waterfall?

In article 83becdac-08b4-4309-a84e-
,
says...
Thanks guys....

The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it.
However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not
sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something
under it for strength.

As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about
this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second
pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot
more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs
filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep
(for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water
level drop drastically.

To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the
time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".

Maybe I am being to ambitious

You can get around the problem by designing it as a series of ponds in
which the water stays when not flowing but with drops between ponds
(which can be large small or stream shaped)
If it were me I would definately use butyl and construct with rock/s
Cement is fine, either seal/neutralize with ising glass (spell?) or fill
and drain a couple of times at the start.
Levels, water loss, and not hiding the edges are the main dangers, tying
it in to the rest of the garden can be tricky (it always looks better on
a natural slope.)
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea
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Old 31-03-2008, 01:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 14
Default Build your own waterfall?

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 31 Mar, 10:03, Rod wrote:
wrote:
Thanks guys....
The concrete was to be used to strength with the fibreglass over it.
However, with the second option, I could just put the fibreglass. Not
sure about the weight though.. I suspect I might still need something
under it for strength.
As for the waterfall absorbing the water, I have been thinking about
this. Another issue is, ultimately, I want a little stream to a second
pond (where the pump will actually be). This will obviously mean a lot
more water is needed before it starts recycling. Waterfall needs
filling, the stream needs filling etc. The bottom pond will be deep
(for volume) but have shallow / rocky sides so you won't see the water
level drop drastically.
To aggravate the situation, I don't intend running the pump all the
time. This means I cannot "get it started and top it up".
Maybe I am being to ambitious

Have a third "pond" - actually a covered tank of some sort. A small weir
from the second pond to the third.

So you pump from the third pond to the top. When that water gets to the
second pond any excess over what fills that pond goes over the weir into
the third pond. By being covered you don't notice the level of the third
pond at all and that of the second remains static.

You will also need to have a means by which the third pond can lose
excess water when there is heavy rain.

(I used to have a house which had a single visible pond and a waterfall
down a cliff-like face. This had a hidden second pond. The arrangement
didn't work properly as the concrete was porous and had cracked, but the
idea was fine. The hidden pond was very popular with frogs...)
--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org


This waterproofing this is a big issue. We had a nice waterfall
feature ruined by a tear in the liner somewhere underneath the rocks !
Simon.


I sort of forgave this - it had been done by an Italian prisoner of war
during or just after WW2. Earthquakes had probably caused the worst of
the cracks - not far from Bishops Castle.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org
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Old 31-03-2008, 02:05 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening,uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 15
Default Build your own waterfall?

On Mar 31, 9:55 am, "PK" wrote:
"sm_jamieson" wrote in message

...

To make it look good you need real rocks (from a local quarry or
landscape gardening place. Build a big waterproof tray



Build a set of recessed steps into the bank, line with butyl, sit big rocks
on the steps, arrange small rocks and scree to hide the liner.

some numbers on water flow hehttp://www.californiawaterscapes.com...fall-build.htm

pk


Unfortunately Mr Dyers CD rom seems to be no longer available but his
site gives some ideas on what can be done, if your an artist, and some
examples of what you won`t want to be seeing.......

http://www.waterfeatures.co.uk/

Waterfall wants to be built in what Mr Dyer calls a waterproof bag,
the liner goes below all the rock work which is mortared on to it,
using landscape fabric to protect it. Liner should be well above
maximum water level all round and even be part of the same piece that
lines the pond or at least with a major overlap. All the flaps and
edges of the liner are hidden by rock work and planting. Pick your
ricks carefully.

Water should enter the fall at a few points , not just one hose at the
top, he has a great example where the final fall into the pond is
flowing a lot more water than the small stream apparently feeding it.

Pond itself should be dug so that the bottom of edging stones are
Below the level of the water, then the liner comes up the back of the
stones and is tucked under the turf. Intial edge of pond should be a
beach, with very slight slope covered in gravel and shingle,
impression should be of the edging stones `floating` in the water when
pond is full and beach allows for certain amount of level drop,
importantly the liner is never left showing.

HTH
Adam

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